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CHOMP_CHOMP NEW 2013 DRAFT!!! 4th ROUND ADDED
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:42 am    Post subject: Re: CHOMP_CHOMP NEW 2013 DRAFT!!! 4th ROUND ADDED Reply with quote

CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
The LBC wrote:
Um... wow. I have to wonder if you've even watched the Chargers play this season or have followed them at all the past couple years. The only decent pick made is Lemonier in the 2nd, and that's purely based off value - and I'm not even sure you could argue that since Short, Roby, Poyer, and Williams both present equal or possibly greater value.

The recent extension given to Malcom Floyd was the straw that broke the camel's back, the Chargers won't be investing early picks in WR's for the next year if not longer. I do love how some of the same people who were pimping Vincent Brown as an expected breakout candidate for this season are now completely writing him off because of a freak injury.

Moreover, you went 4 rounds before addressing a single one of the two greatest needs of the team; congratulations this may be the worst mock for Chargers I've seen yet this season. Perhaps if you'd like to familiarize yourself with who is set to hit free agency, you might note that both our starting CB's and both starting OG's are 2013 UFA's - and 1 among those 4 players has remotely played to a level that deserves a new contract at starter's money. The fact that there's no CB taken in the first 4 rounds is appalling (particularly when you're drafting... a backup QB?).

The fact that you have us passing on guys who could be argued as "needs" with as much, if not more, upside in Milliner, Jordan, and Banks (or even Te'o who I'm not as high on as others are because I feel his ceiling's too limited for a Top 15 selection) to take a luxury pick (which is what any WR who is not a HWS phenom the likes of Fitz, Green, or CJ is for the Chargers at this point) is horrendous.

Get to the second round and you have guys with borderline-1st round talent AT a position of massive need for San Diego, like Roby and Poyer, sitting there and passed up is terrible.

Nassib in the 3rd round is moronic (I'm sorry, I'm not even going to try to feign nice here, it's a plain ignorant pick), even more so when you're passing on Wreh-Wilson, Hawthorne, Travis Frederick (who fills another massive need for this team at LG) and Ricky Wagner to do so. Hell, a RB like Stepfan Taylor to back-up and push Ryan Mathews hold more value than a backup QB does in the 3rd.

I'd really suggest doing more research. I understand that people do these for "fun," but if you're going to go to the extent of posting them up for feedback, then you really ought to be putting in some effort yourself to research what actually fits teams.



Well since there are several issues to attend to I will just get started...

First off, we have to note that these are your opinions versus mine, so there isn't going to be a right and wrong.

Now to start on the actual issues with the draft... While I understand the extension of Floyd may say what you thinks, to me it doesn't. He is the only viable option the team has at the WR position. Your offense has taken a big setback by letting V. Jackson go and I think it is something that needs to be fixed immediately.

In the second round, I don't disagree that CB isn't a big need. But I have a higher value on Lemonier opposed to the other prospects.

As for Nassib, I think you're a moron if you think you don't need a QB. Rivers has steadily declined and a viable replacement needs to be thought about. Nassib is good value there and a good option.

In the fourth I have actually considered a CB there, however, I know addressing the position in the 4th probably doesn't appease you.

I am not going to be able to please everyone, but that doesn't mean I don't know what I am doing. So, to be honest, you can [REMOVED BY MODERATOR]

Because i came at you heatedly I'm going to be take the high road and not give you a warning for using entirely inappropriate language. Do it again, and I will have no problem going straight to Webby and ensuring you get a nice, long vacation from this site.

Secondly, contract situations affect how teams draft. If you don't believe that then you aren't doing your homework. Rivers has "regressed" yes... the guy is still under contract in such a manner that it puts the team in CAP HELL to release or trade him for at least 2 more seasons, meaning he's not going anywhere any time soon unless he retires or suffered a career-ending injury... which might well happen if the team continues its habit of not investing picks prior to the 4th round in offensive linemen. Yes, there's such a thing as drafting for the future but you don't draft for 3 years out because any sane GM knows they may never rield a return an ROI in the modern league before their job is up in the air for failure to produce.

But back to the receivers for a moment. Again, that you're insisting that the loss of Vincent Jackson is such a huge deal tells me one of two things (possibly both): You're either a Bucs fan who, while said player has been a boon for your team, wants to inflate the "greatness" of your player by overstating his loss to his former team or you weren't seeing much of anything of Chargers games from the past couples seasons save for scoring highlights. You could put Vincent Jackson in the current Chargers lineup right now and it really wouldn't change much of anything save for possibly one or two less interceptions from Rivers - and even that's debatable as Jackson ran hot and cold with the Chargers, contributing only in bunches while showing little sense of week-to-week consistency, and mailed in a number of performances, which (wait for it) led to Rivers interceptions in the past.

When your OL can't keep your QB clean enough to be able to step up in the pocket and into passes to put proper velocity on them with correct mechanics then it doesn't matter who the hell your WR's are. Look at Arizona and Larry Fitzgerald... one of the Top 3 WR's in the league has broken 100 yards receiving in only one game this season (and against one of the weakest secondaries his team has faced) because his offense's OL is out to get his QB killed. I bring up Arizona too because they are one of only 3 other teams in the league this year whose OL's are leading the way in BOTH sacks surrendered and QB hurries surrendered... and another of those 3 is the Chargers. When teams are in this type of situation, spending a 1st round pick on a WR is too much of a luxury, particularly one who is more or less the Best WR in his class by default (assuming you're ranking Allen as the best in his class) - mind you this is a player who is shorter than his listed 6'3", is no lock to run a sub-4.5 40, and is coming off a knee injury that's caused him to miss several weeks of the current season. If Allen doesn't clock a sub-4.5 second 40, I guarantee you he won't be the first receiver off the board.

There's a reason why, despite having good hands and great collegiate production, (and despite turning into quality pro's) guys like Hakeem Nicks, Greg Jennings, and Jeremy Maclin fell out of the Top 15 in their respective draft classes (and every one of them ran faster than I'm confident in believing Allen will), because the combination of speed and size sell at the pro level (only further multiplied now that rookies don't require as great an amount of guaranteed money in contract these days). If either of the Tennessee (and you could even go so far as to include former Tennessee/current Tennessee State WR Da'Rick Rogers there) runs a 4.45 or faster and Allen fails to, they'll have to absolutely bomb their interviews or get arrested between now and the draft to not get selected ahead of Allen.
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Jetsman82


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mingo worries me a little in that he should be a lot more productive given how athletic he is. I might be leaning towards Werner for the Jets there, but the position is spot on.

The rest of the draft is excellent as well. I might switch out the Stanford RB for Bell, but that's preference.
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Nobody


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
Nobody wrote:
Decent Colt pick, but Elam is still available!!!! Give us Matty E!!!


Lol Hey I'm a Florida fanatic, but i think Sheldon Richardson grades out much higher as a prospect. I think Indy just needs to take the best defensive player on their board. In this situation I think that is Richardson.

Elam fills a bigger need, and IMO is a better player. Richardson doesn't fit what the Colts want, he is dumb as rocks. When a 5* (4th in the nation!) recruit has to go to a JUCO because he is so stupid, you know he's special in a bad way. Also, Pagano+Elam= Pro bowler, no doubt in my mind.
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boondock


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this draft for the Panthers.
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marky_b27


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solid draft for the Eagles, though I would prefer Eifert or Reid in the 2nd round over Okafor.
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NVRamsFan


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A more likely scenario for the Rams is one of the OL in the 1st and Keenan Allen. The Rams above anything else need play makers and Allen is that. The rest of the season will see how Saffold can stay healthy. He's great when he's in the lineup but has missed a lot of time the last year and a half. Personally I'd take Warmack and throw him at LG and Allen in the first. Go with the best at either S or OLB in the 3rd and in the 4th take the other or a RT.
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CHOMP_CHOMP


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: CHOMP_CHOMP NEW 2013 DRAFT!!! 4th ROUND ADDED Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
The LBC wrote:
Um... wow. I have to wonder if you've even watched the Chargers play this season or have followed them at all the past couple years. The only decent pick made is Lemonier in the 2nd, and that's purely based off value - and I'm not even sure you could argue that since Short, Roby, Poyer, and Williams both present equal or possibly greater value.

The recent extension given to Malcom Floyd was the straw that broke the camel's back, the Chargers won't be investing early picks in WR's for the next year if not longer. I do love how some of the same people who were pimping Vincent Brown as an expected breakout candidate for this season are now completely writing him off because of a freak injury.

Moreover, you went 4 rounds before addressing a single one of the two greatest needs of the team; congratulations this may be the worst mock for Chargers I've seen yet this season. Perhaps if you'd like to familiarize yourself with who is set to hit free agency, you might note that both our starting CB's and both starting OG's are 2013 UFA's - and 1 among those 4 players has remotely played to a level that deserves a new contract at starter's money. The fact that there's no CB taken in the first 4 rounds is appalling (particularly when you're drafting... a backup QB?).

The fact that you have us passing on guys who could be argued as "needs" with as much, if not more, upside in Milliner, Jordan, and Banks (or even Te'o who I'm not as high on as others are because I feel his ceiling's too limited for a Top 15 selection) to take a luxury pick (which is what any WR who is not a HWS phenom the likes of Fitz, Green, or CJ is for the Chargers at this point) is horrendous.

Get to the second round and you have guys with borderline-1st round talent AT a position of massive need for San Diego, like Roby and Poyer, sitting there and passed up is terrible.

Nassib in the 3rd round is moronic (I'm sorry, I'm not even going to try to feign nice here, it's a plain ignorant pick), even more so when you're passing on Wreh-Wilson, Hawthorne, Travis Frederick (who fills another massive need for this team at LG) and Ricky Wagner to do so. Hell, a RB like Stepfan Taylor to back-up and push Ryan Mathews hold more value than a backup QB does in the 3rd.

I'd really suggest doing more research. I understand that people do these for "fun," but if you're going to go to the extent of posting them up for feedback, then you really ought to be putting in some effort yourself to research what actually fits teams.



Well since there are several issues to attend to I will just get started...

First off, we have to note that these are your opinions versus mine, so there isn't going to be a right and wrong.

Now to start on the actual issues with the draft... While I understand the extension of Floyd may say what you thinks, to me it doesn't. He is the only viable option the team has at the WR position. Your offense has taken a big setback by letting V. Jackson go and I think it is something that needs to be fixed immediately.

In the second round, I don't disagree that CB isn't a big need. But I have a higher value on Lemonier opposed to the other prospects.

As for Nassib, I think you're a moron if you think you don't need a QB. Rivers has steadily declined and a viable replacement needs to be thought about. Nassib is good value there and a good option.

In the fourth I have actually considered a CB there, however, I know addressing the position in the 4th probably doesn't appease you.

I am not going to be able to please everyone, but that doesn't mean I don't know what I am doing. So, to be honest, you can [REMOVED BY MODERATOR]

Because i came at you heatedly I'm going to be take the high road and not give you a warning for using entirely inappropriate language. Do it again, and I will have no problem going straight to Webby and ensuring you get a nice, long vacation from this site.

Secondly, contract situations affect how teams draft. If you don't believe that then you aren't doing your homework. Rivers has "regressed" yes... the guy is still under contract in such a manner that it puts the team in CAP HELL to release or trade him for at least 2 more seasons, meaning he's not going anywhere any time soon unless he retires or suffered a career-ending injury... which might well happen if the team continues its habit of not investing picks prior to the 4th round in offensive linemen. Yes, there's such a thing as drafting for the future but you don't draft for 3 years out because any sane GM knows they may never rield a return an ROI in the modern league before their job is up in the air for failure to produce.

But back to the receivers for a moment. Again, that you're insisting that the loss of Vincent Jackson is such a huge deal tells me one of two things (possibly both): You're either a Bucs fan who, while said player has been a boon for your team, wants to inflate the "greatness" of your player by overstating his loss to his former team or you weren't seeing much of anything of Chargers games from the past couples seasons save for scoring highlights. You could put Vincent Jackson in the current Chargers lineup right now and it really wouldn't change much of anything save for possibly one or two less interceptions from Rivers - and even that's debatable as Jackson ran hot and cold with the Chargers, contributing only in bunches while showing little sense of week-to-week consistency, and mailed in a number of performances, which (wait for it) led to Rivers interceptions in the past.

When your OL can't keep your QB clean enough to be able to step up in the pocket and into passes to put proper velocity on them with correct mechanics then it doesn't matter who the hell your WR's are. Look at Arizona and Larry Fitzgerald... one of the Top 3 WR's in the league has broken 100 yards receiving in only one game this season (and against one of the weakest secondaries his team has faced) because his offense's OL is out to get his QB killed. I bring up Arizona too because they are one of only 3 other teams in the league this year whose OL's are leading the way in BOTH sacks surrendered and QB hurries surrendered... and another of those 3 is the Chargers. When teams are in this type of situation, spending a 1st round pick on a WR is too much of a luxury, particularly one who is more or less the Best WR in his class by default (assuming you're ranking Allen as the best in his class) - mind you this is a player who is shorter than his listed 6'3", is no lock to run a sub-4.5 40, and is coming off a knee injury that's caused him to miss several weeks of the current season. If Allen doesn't clock a sub-4.5 second 40, I guarantee you he won't be the first receiver off the board.

There's a reason why, despite having good hands and great collegiate production, (and despite turning into quality pro's) guys like Hakeem Nicks, Greg Jennings, and Jeremy Maclin fell out of the Top 15 in their respective draft classes (and every one of them ran faster than I'm confident in believing Allen will), because the combination of speed and size sell at the pro level (only further multiplied now that rookies don't require as great an amount of guaranteed money in contract these days). If either of the Tennessee (and you could even go so far as to include former Tennessee/current Tennessee State WR Da'Rick Rogers there) runs a 4.45 or faster and Allen fails to, they'll have to absolutely bomb their interviews or get arrested between now and the draft to not get selected ahead of Allen.



First off i would like to apologize for my comment, it was rude and out of line. I just put a lot of time and effort into these mock drafts, and I believe I do a fair amount of research, and put out an above average product. I took it personally when you assumed that I did no research. And again I apologize.


But get past that and to the true point. I honestly can't, and don't deny anything you have said. However, I do have several counterpoints.

First, I still think a true #1 WR is a glaring need on this football team. Yes, I am a Bucs fan, but I am one of the few who hasn't completely fallen in love with V Jack. I actually think he is kind of a one trick pony, in the fact that he is mostly a deep ball threat. Also I think the improvement in the Bucs passing game and Jos Freeman in general is due to improved offensive line play (which helps the argument you make now a good one). Now having said all of that, I still think the addition of WR would really help your offense. I think V Jack helped shadow your OL troubles because Rivers could go deep if he was in trouble.

In the second point, again I don't really have anything to argue with you about. I agree with most of what you have said, and I am we'll aware of Rivers current contract situation. But, I do bring up the New England Patriots here, who have become quite the pack leader in developing back-up quarterbacks. Mallet was a player taken strictly for the future. I just think your team needs to start thinking about life without Rivers. I don't think he is resigned after this current contract is over, so.

As for Allen, I literally agree wit every single word you said about him. I just don't think at his point one WR has separated himself from the pack. But yes, if Allen runs a poor 40 time, he will obviously drop in my rankings.

After having this discussion with you, I will go back and tweak the Chargers draft. You have brought up valid points and make a strong, logical case for your team. I am kind of an old school guy and love building from the trenches anyway to be honest.
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CHOMP_CHOMP


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetsman82 wrote:
Mingo worries me a little in that he should be a lot more productive given how athletic he is. I might be leaning towards Werner for the Jets there, but the position is spot on.

The rest of the draft is excellent as well. I might switch out the Stanford RB for Bell, but that's preference.



Mingo worries me a ton as well, but in the end someone will fall in love with how freakishly athletic this kid is. Also, I think he will play much better in a 3-4 scheme then in his current 4-3. But regardless, I do agree with your initial point.

I have actually had Werner there, especially because I feel like the Jets prefer a bigger-bodied player on the outside. But like I said, someone will fall for Mingo's athleticism and right now that is the Jets.
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CHOMP_CHOMP


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody wrote:
CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
Nobody wrote:
Decent Colt pick, but Elam is still available!!!! Give us Matty E!!!


Lol Hey I'm a Florida fanatic, but i think Sheldon Richardson grades out much higher as a prospect. I think Indy just needs to take the best defensive player on their board. In this situation I think that is Richardson.

Elam fills a bigger need, and IMO is a better player. Richardson doesn't fit what the Colts want, he is dumb as rocks. When a 5* (4th in the nation!) recruit has to go to a JUCO because he is so stupid, you know he's special in a bad way. Also, Pagano+Elam= Pro bowler, no doubt in my mind.


Lol you feel very strongly about this huh. Like I said before my main issue with the pick is that I feel Sheldon Richardson has the ability to be a top-15 pick and Elam doesn't. I just feel like Richardson is great value at that spot. Plus I don't really see how he doesn't fit your defense, I think he would be a tremendous DE in your scheme.
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CHOMP_CHOMP


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NVRamsFan wrote:
A more likely scenario for the Rams is one of the OL in the 1st and Keenan Allen. The Rams above anything else need play makers and Allen is that. The rest of the season will see how Saffold can stay healthy. He's great when he's in the lineup but has missed a lot of time the last year and a half. Personally I'd take Warmack and throw him at LG and Allen in the first. Go with the best at either S or OLB in the 3rd and in the 4th take the other or a RT.


I'm sorry I just really disagree with this. Getting Lewan and Warmack in the first round not only drastically improves your OL, it makes it one of the better ones in the game. Lewan can come in and play on the right side for now until he matures a little bit more and then eventually replace Saffold (who I think is just out matched on the left side)

I don't deny that you need playmakers, but you need OL help much more in my opinion.
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Nobody


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
Nobody wrote:
CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
Nobody wrote:
Decent Colt pick, but Elam is still available!!!! Give us Matty E!!!


Lol Hey I'm a Florida fanatic, but i think Sheldon Richardson grades out much higher as a prospect. I think Indy just needs to take the best defensive player on their board. In this situation I think that is Richardson.

Elam fills a bigger need, and IMO is a better player. Richardson doesn't fit what the Colts want, he is dumb as rocks. When a 5* (4th in the nation!) recruit has to go to a JUCO because he is so stupid, you know he's special in a bad way. Also, Pagano+Elam= Pro bowler, no doubt in my mind.


Lol you feel very strongly about this huh. Like I said before my main issue with the pick is that I feel Sheldon Richardson has the ability to be a top-15 pick and Elam doesn't. I just feel like Richardson is great value at that spot. Plus I don't really see how he doesn't fit your defense, I think he would be a tremendous DE in your scheme.
He does fit our scheme, I was saying his idiocy and discipline issues don't fit us. We can agree to disagree, I think Elam is a better prospect than Barron last year, and Richardson is a big risk.
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Mastercheddaar


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: hmmmm Reply with quote

I Want Cleveland to have nothing to do with J Jones.

that is all

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BillsGuy82


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still not very good.. Swap Moore for Te'o , Glennon, swap Brown for Lester than Stills

I could live with Glennon if say his stock rises

Te'o
Glennon
Lester
Stills

Good draft
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CHOMP_CHOMP


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody wrote:
Alright thanks for the extra rounds.

1- Please, please, PLEASE change this to Matt Elam! Pray

3. Porter is great value here. Really like the pick.

4. We just took a NT in the 5th last year, Josh Chapman out of Bama. Sunday will be his first game back from the injury that dropped him from a 2nd rounder to a 5th rounder. We've been without him and our starting NT all year, so I'd prefer to wait and see how Josh performs. This is a good value pick, though I'd prefer Gabe Jackson at this point.



I realized I never addressed the NT situation you brought up. My thinking is that you can move Chapman to the other DE spot where I think he is more then capable of being able to play, and you complete your defensive line. Having Richardson, Geathers, and Chapman solves your DL issues.
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ninjapirate


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHOMP_CHOMP wrote:
ninjapirate wrote:
Like the first rounder.


Would prefer Eifert or Reid in the second.


We don't need a DE, we still havent even had a chance to play Vinny Curry yet at DE. Don't need more bench kids.

Eifert would give Nick Foles a red zone option.


Reid is a high upside guy that could fix a hole we have at safety.



I originally had Reid there, but I struggled with that pick knowing that Okafor was on the table. I don't disagree with the hole a safety, but you also have a dreadful pass-rush and I actually think Okafor is the better prospect. Granted it is not by much (Okafor as late first - early second and Reid as mid second) but still. Plus the organization seems to have a pattern of building from the trenches.



Some new pattern will be in affect for next year. Andy Reid has been the gm more or less for the past 10 years or so. Once he is gone someone new will be making final calls. So we really don't know what trends will be followed.

But if Okafor is BPA then that's fine.


I dont think drafting another mid round qb accomplishes anything for us. I would prefer Dobson in the 4th.
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