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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16764
Location: Parkville, MD
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 Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| eagles101 wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | eagles101 wrote: |
but he has no prior incidents like this. he has had issue with dirty/borderline dirty plays. and one incident of letting his anger get the best of him....but not taking shots like this at players. so that plus no way of clearly or semi clearly knowing he meant to do it means he shouldnt be suspended or fined. |
So wait..
"He doesn't have a history of this... except that one time. Oh, and this other stuff that's semi-related. But he's never tried to kick a guy in the crotch before." |
no. he has a history of tackling very roughly. dirty or not dirty that is what he does...a lot. he has one time of getting into a fight with another player and stomping him.
he does not have a history of cheap shots. things of this nature. the kicking in the down stairs, hitting people just to hit them, or what have you. |
Again, what you're saying is "He doesn't have a history of doing it, except that one time."
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 22016
Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | detfan782004 wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | coors wrote: | its sad that the only time Suh is in the news is due to him making a pretty big mistake or getting to aggressive.. because off the field he is actually what seems to be a really good philanthropist and does a bunch of the community. but.. this is the 21st century and people like to talk about the bad and overlook the good.. Its getting harder and harder to be a fan of Suh because of all his "antics" and "incidents"
I love his game on the field when hes not making a bonehead move.. and I think hes genuine off the field as well.. |
Did you forget about that whole hit and run incident? He isn't exactly a saint off the field. |
THERE WAS NO HIT AND RUN
In fact there is 911 tale showing Suh made first call and was directed to wait at practice facility for police.
Helps actually knowing the facts! |
"Wait at practice facility" -- is that where the accident occurred? I'm not saying he was guilty of it, but he was certainly accused of it, and it's certainly not the only traffic incident he's been involved in. My point remains -- he's not exactly some flawless character off the field. |
Really?
Accused by another driver of hit and run and the police are called by Suh, no charges are laid but you view him negatively because he was charged. Wow.
He was cited last night for traffic violations and the police chief has reported the case is in limbo because the video suggests the charges are excessive and the officer has a past history.
Suh lost control of his car in Portland. No charges laid.
He was ticket in Portland for speeding, failure to produce insurance and improperly signalling.
While in Nebraska he hit parked cars and fined 60 bucks.
So in your wisdom you feel justified in assessing Suh's character based on here say. Being a poor driver justifies the attacks on his character?
Every few months a thread pops up in TAST about someone who gets a ticket and admits guilt determined to fight it. The persons character isn't called into question. Yet for very similar circumstance Suh's character is called into question.
Suh may be a bad driver but connecting his driving to character concerns simply isn't valid. If he wasn't a pro athlete only one of his driving mishaps would even have been publicized.
Suh plays a very aggressive game and his emotions got the better of him on one occasion which lead to the stomp. None of these occurrences suggest he has character concerns.
The lack of objectivity in discussions involving Suh are nothing more than a witch hunt and piling on. He has never injured a player and its truly unfortunate fans don't over react with similar zeal when other players are put in the spotlight.
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apollo14000
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 3749
Location: PA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | detfan782004 wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | coors wrote: | its sad that the only time Suh is in the news is due to him making a pretty big mistake or getting to aggressive.. because off the field he is actually what seems to be a really good philanthropist and does a bunch of the community. but.. this is the 21st century and people like to talk about the bad and overlook the good.. Its getting harder and harder to be a fan of Suh because of all his "antics" and "incidents"
I love his game on the field when hes not making a bonehead move.. and I think hes genuine off the field as well.. |
Did you forget about that whole hit and run incident? He isn't exactly a saint off the field. |
THERE WAS NO HIT AND RUN
In fact there is 911 tale showing Suh made first call and was directed to wait at practice facility for police.
Helps actually knowing the facts! |
"Wait at practice facility" -- is that where the accident occurred? I'm not saying he was guilty of it, but he was certainly accused of it, and it's certainly not the only traffic incident he's been involved in. My point remains -- he's not exactly some flawless character off the field. |
Really?
Accused by another driver of hit and run and the police are called by Suh, no charges are laid but you view him negatively because he was charged. Wow.
He was cited last night for traffic violations and the police chief has reported the case is in limbo because the video suggests the charges are excessive and the officer has a past history.
Suh lost control of his car in Portland. No charges laid.
He was ticket in Portland for speeding, failure to produce insurance and improperly signalling.
While in Nebraska he hit parked cars and fined 60 bucks.
So in your wisdom you feel justified in assessing Suh's character based on here say. Being a poor driver justifies the attacks on his character?
Every few months a thread pops up in TAST about someone who gets a ticket and admits guilt determined to fight it. The persons character isn't called into question. Yet for very similar circumstance Suh's character is called into question.
Suh may be a bad driver but connecting his driving to character concerns simply isn't valid. If he wasn't a pro athlete only one of his driving mishaps would even have been publicized.
Suh plays a very aggressive game and his emotions got the better of him on one occasion which lead to the stomp. None of these occurrences suggest he has character concerns.
The lack of objectivity in discussions involving Suh are nothing more than a witch hunt and piling on. He has never injured a player and its truly unfortunate fans don't over react with similar zeal when other players are put in the spotlight. |
+1
I don't watch the Lions so I pretty much never see Suh but I watched the Thanksgiving game. I saw the replay after it happened and I immediately thought accident. All of a sudden people on the web and broadcasts furious with Suh. It's like after the broadcast guy saw it and stated his opinion that it was a dirty play, everyone just jumped on that bandwagon and started seeing what he was seeing. I don't think people are looking at the play objectively at all. Is it suspicious? perhaps. But in know way that play look 100% on purpose or even 50% on purpose. |
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El Duderino
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:24 am Post subject: |
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So are there clips of this incident with game speed?
The big problem have with this it seems most have their mind made up by a clip that was slowed down for dramatic effect. |
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JDLefebvre
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 22443
Location: Midway PA /Clovis NM
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: |
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I can't understand how anyone sees this as an accident. His leg stops, and then extends UP towards Schaubs crotch. How is that an accident?
| El Duderino wrote: | | The big problem have with this it seems most have their mind made up by a clip that was slowed down for dramatic effect. |
for dramatic effect? 
No it's a slowed down clip to show proof of a dirty act.
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Keleth
Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2597
Location: Restaurant at the end of the universe
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | coors wrote: | its sad that the only time Suh is in the news is due to him making a pretty big mistake or getting to aggressive.. because off the field he is actually what seems to be a really good philanthropist and does a bunch of the community. but.. this is the 21st century and people like to talk about the bad and overlook the good.. Its getting harder and harder to be a fan of Suh because of all his "antics" and "incidents"
I love his game on the field when hes not making a bonehead move.. and I think hes genuine off the field as well.. |
Did you forget about that whole hit and run incident? He isn't exactly a saint off the field. |
So should we judge a players on field fouls because he has a history off field ?
Should we not punish in game fouls because the player who commited it has a saintly image off field ?
As soon as you start judging peoples on field fouls in the light of their off field image then you walk a dangerous line. |
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El Duderino
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| JDLefebvre wrote: | I can't understand how anyone sees this as an accident. His leg stops, and then extends UP towards Schaubs crotch. How is that an accident?
| El Duderino wrote: | | The big problem have with this it seems most have their mind made up by a clip that was slowed down for dramatic effect. |
for dramatic effect?
No it's a slowed down clip to show proof of a dirty act. |
I hate to break it to you, but the real life doesn't happen in slow motion. |
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tytalton
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Didn't Suh's car have damage to one of the rear quarterpanels? That ought to tell you something given the circumstances and Suh's 911 call saying someone just hit his car.
I imagine if we had tape of that incident it would be slowed down and all of the physics gurus on here would describe how obvious it was that Suh was at fault. Logic does not apply apparently.
And all the while guys like EDS, Newton, and the guy that hit Suh are absolved of all responsibility in the matter.
I for one say the lions ought to trade the guy. He is never going to be the kind of force he was as a rookie because he is never going to get a call to save his life, while at the same time is going to be a constant lightning rod for opposing players to target in hopes that he blows his stack and gets ejected. The lions aren't the packers an don't get the kind of referee attention that can make a difference in a game. More often it is the lions on the other end of the call and Suh is one of the reasons for that. |
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incognito_man
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 26528
Location: Madison
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: |
If they fine him it shows it was an infraction but not worthy of suspension. A fine indicates the contact wasn't on purpose. |
No.
Players don't get fined for accidental contact to the groin. If he's fined it's 100% because they deemed it to be intentional.
Which wouldn't make sense.
They should either deem it intentional and hand out a suspension or not penalize it all if they're not certain it was intentional. |
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JDLefebvre
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 22443
Location: Midway PA /Clovis NM
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| El Duderino wrote: | | JDLefebvre wrote: | I can't understand how anyone sees this as an accident. His leg stops, and then extends UP towards Schaubs crotch. How is that an accident?
| El Duderino wrote: | | The big problem have with this it seems most have their mind made up by a clip that was slowed down for dramatic effect. |
for dramatic effect?
No it's a slowed down clip to show proof of a dirty act. |
I hate to break it to you, but the real life doesn't happen in slow motion. |
WTH is your point? He extended his leg to kick Schaub. Normal speed... slow motion... sped up... its still dirty!!!
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LikesHAM
Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 1024
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| incognito_man wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: |
If they fine him it shows it was an infraction but not worthy of suspension. A fine indicates the contact wasn't on purpose. |
No.
Players don't get fined for accidental contact to the groin. If he's fined it's 100% because they deemed it to be intentional.
Which wouldn't make sense.
They should either deem it intentional and hand out a suspension or not penalize it all if they're not certain it was intentional. |
No.
If they had deemed it to be intentional they would have suspended him.
Players get fined all the time for illegal hits even though they weren't intentional. The NFL was forced into a corner to fine him because of all the dumb media created uproar that this caused on national TV.
There is a definite hunt for Suh and every little action he does is put under an enormous microscope. I haven't seen people care so much about what a DT does during every single play in a long long time. |
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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 19903
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| eagles101 wrote: |
he does not have a history of cheap shots. things of this nature. the kicking in the down stairs, hitting people just to hit them, or what have you. |
Or say, trying to torque Jake Delhomme's head off after the ball was thrown away in a pre-season football game?
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16764
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Keleth wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | coors wrote: | its sad that the only time Suh is in the news is due to him making a pretty big mistake or getting to aggressive.. because off the field he is actually what seems to be a really good philanthropist and does a bunch of the community. but.. this is the 21st century and people like to talk about the bad and overlook the good.. Its getting harder and harder to be a fan of Suh because of all his "antics" and "incidents"
I love his game on the field when hes not making a bonehead move.. and I think hes genuine off the field as well.. |
Did you forget about that whole hit and run incident? He isn't exactly a saint off the field. |
So should we judge a players on field fouls because he has a history off field ?
Should we not punish in game fouls because the player who commited it has a saintly image off field ?
As soon as you start judging peoples on field fouls in the light of their off field image then you walk a dangerous line. |
This has nothing to do with on the field.
People are missing the entire point I was making -- I was countering the poster who I originally quoted to asserted that Suh was only in the news for the bad things he does on the field, whereas off the field he was this great guy. I simply countered by saying "He's not a saint off the field -- he's had several incidents there as well".
That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't connect dots that aren't there to be connected.
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JDLefebvre
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 22443
Location: Midway PA /Clovis NM
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| El Duderino wrote: | | JDLefebvre wrote: | I can't understand how anyone sees this as an accident. His leg stops, and then extends UP towards Schaubs crotch. How is that an accident?
| El Duderino wrote: | | The big problem have with this it seems most have their mind made up by a clip that was slowed down for dramatic effect. |
for dramatic effect?
No it's a slowed down clip to show proof of a dirty act. |
I hate to break it to you, but the real life doesn't happen in slow motion. |
WTH is your point? He extended his leg to kick Schaub. Normal speed... slow motion... sped up... its still dirty!!!
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LionsFTW
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 17133
Location: Rock City, Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| JDLefebvre wrote: | | Tom Shean wrote: | | Can't suspend the guy unless you're 100% sure he meant it. |
but you can fine him??? |
They fine all the time for something that wasnt intentional. Every week there are fines for horse collars that were accidental or facemasks that were accidental.
This is very consistent for the NFL.
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