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seriously27


Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 3505
Location: Sleepytown USA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Ray Guy again this year...sigh

Anyways My ballot would be Ogden, Allen, Greene(personal favorite), Reed and Coryell.

I could be talked into Strahan this year as well. Especially since he is basically loved by everyone as a person on and off the field.
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UofMfan909


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
If LA isn't a first ballot HOF'er, I'd be shocked. Probably one of the Top 3 offensive lineman in the history of the game and he played 3 or 4 of the 5 spots at an All-Pro level


Top three is a stretch, but Allen and Ogden are two of the all time elites on the OL. This could be the best OL class ever (without looking up past classes), with Ogden, Allen, and Will Shields potentially all making it in. All three are worthy and on my top five posted earlier.
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skatebeanz


Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 19637
Location: Jamison. on the Sweet-sig.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mort has to go in IMO.
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GaTechRavens


Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 17743
Location: Madison, WI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
It couldn't have anything to do with having the records before Jerry came along.


It couldn't, because he didn't have the records.
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sayheykid


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 3344
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seriously27 wrote:
I could be talked into Strahan this year as well. Especially since he is basically loved by everyone as a person on and off the field.


His ex-wife might take umbrage with that assertion.
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bungleodeon


Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 9835
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
bungleodeon wrote:
Badger75 wrote:
Warren Sapp
Karl Mecklenberg
Andre Reed
Dave Robinson
Jerome Bettis
Tim Brown
Steve Atwater
Morten Anderson



Steve Atwater: His numbers just aren't very special, and with Lynch and A. Williams stealing votes for DB's, he's not going to get in. He's never been a finalist.



What stats are you talking about? Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think that Atwater leads all safeties in tackles. He made eight Pro Bowls, and he was on the 90's All-Decade team. That is enough.

Is it INT's? That stat is overrated. You can be some zone player like Paul Krause and get a lot of INT's because you play against mediocre QB's and behind the Purple People Eaters. Does that make you better than Atwater? Heck no. Atwater was a much bigger force than Krause was, and Krause is in the Hall. Atwater is much more deserving.


Tackles weren't and official stat for the first few years of his career. Look at his numbers, those tackle numbers are cooked. He also got a lot of tackles because he was an in the box safety. A glorified 4th LB for half his career. If his postseason awards are enough than why isn't Deron Cherry in the hall?
It's a slippery slope using other guys in the hall vs. guys you think should be in the hall. Using that same line of thinking, there are 3 dozen WR's that should be in the Hall because Swann is there. There's 40 QB's that should be in because of Namath.

I've had this debate before on this site, don't really want to go into the same thing again.
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bungleodeon


Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 9835
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
bungleodeon wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
bungleodeon wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
BillsGuy82 wrote:
Andre Reed and Michael Strahan are locks.. Larry Allen as well


Not over Cris Carter. Carter is a better receiver.


I agree he is better, but this is the NFL HOF we're talking about. A lot of the time there is no rhyme or reason to who they put in ahead of who they keep out. Remember, Art Monk was put into the Hall the same year Cris Carter was first put on the ballot. There's no doubt Carter was a better WR than Monk as well, but that didn't change the fact that Monk went in and Carter is looking at his 6th year.


Cept Monk was Jerry before Jerry.
wth are you talking about? He wasn't even close to the best WR of his era before Rice came along, nor was he the 2nd best WR with Rice in the picture. James Lofton? Steve Largent? Hell, Henry Ellard deserved to be in the HoF over Monk. there, I said it. Monk is about as deserving as Stanley Morgan or Harold Jackson.


It couldn't have anything to do with having the records before Jerry came along. Or playing on a heavily run dominant team and putting up numbers before anyone else. Or even having a secondary WR who had numbers compareable to HOF Michael Irvin.

Nah, he was trash.


His numbers weren't better than everyone elses and what records specifically did he hold before Rice? Steve Largent and James Lofton retired before Monk and had more yards. Certainly wasn't TD's/

If you think saying he is below Henry Ellard and in the same category as Harold Jackson or Stanley Morgan is close to calling him trash I have to question your knowledge of football history.
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bungleodeon


Joined: 19 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
If LA isn't a first ballot HOF'er, I'd be shocked. Probably one of the Top 3 offensive lineman in the history of the game and he played 3 or 4 of the 5 spots at an All-Pro level


I fully agree he should be a first balloter, but it wouldn't shock me to see him passed up this year. There's quite a few all time greats that had to wait at least 1 season to get in. With Ogden also going on the ballot this year, and Shields having already been a finalist, it could be difficult for Allen to get in on the first ballot.

I do think with the other 3 1995 dallas cowboy SB champ HoFers, it could be easier for Allen to get in. Just my opinion, but I think having Aikmen, Irvin and Smith all in the Hall will help his chances.
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seriously27


Joined: 24 Apr 2006
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Location: Sleepytown USA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sayheykid wrote:
seriously27 wrote:
I could be talked into Strahan this year as well. Especially since he is basically loved by everyone as a person on and off the field.


His ex-wife might take umbrage with that assertion.


Good thing she doesn't have a vote! Smile
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GaTechRavens


Joined: 24 Nov 2006
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Location: Madison, WI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not? Here are my power rankings (players only).

1. Michael Strahan
2. Jonathan Ogden
3. Larry Allen
4. Will Shields
5. Warren Sapp
6. Aeneas Williams
7. Kevin Greene
8. Cris Carter
9. Charles Haley
10. Joe Jacoby
11. Steve Atwater
12. Albert Lewis
13. Morten Andersen
14. Tim Brown
15. Jerome Bettis
16. John Lynch
17. Andre Reed
18. Karl Mecklenburg
19. Terrell Davis
20. Roger Craig
21. Steve Tasker

Possibly the most loaded ballot of all time, though I don't know what years would compare best.

My thoughts on a few others:

If Coryell is going to be inducted, it needs to be for his offensive innovation alone. Incorporating his not that successful head coaching career into his induction isn't going to work. Personally, I'd leave him out either way.

I have no idea why Paul Tagliabue is being blacklisted, but this is ridiculous. He should have been inducted in 2006 when he was first eligible.

Bill Parcells needs to make it fairly soon. I'm okay with leaving him off a loaded ballot this year.

Not touching Modell or DeBartolo with a 10 foot pole.
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 7452
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Half these posers don't think Ogden is getting in?

I was pretty young during his prime, but he was one of the biggest freak athletes I've ever seen in the nfl. Was consistently great year in and year out. He also has the buzz-ish "media-friendly" items like a super bowl ring, 11 consecutive pro-bowls, and blocking for a 2000 yard rusher.

I think Ogden, Strahan, Allen, and Sapp should all be first ballot guys.
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mco65


Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 534
Location: US
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
Half these posers don't think Ogden is getting in?

I was pretty young during his prime, but he was one of the biggest freak athletes I've ever seen in the nfl. Was consistently great year in and year out. He also has the buzz-ish "media-friendly" items like a super bowl ring, 11 consecutive pro-bowls, and blocking for a 2000 yard rusher.

I think Ogden, Strahan, Allen, and Sapp should all be first ballot guys.


The question is NOT whether Ogden gets in... he's getting in.. the question is does he get in on his 1st ballot.. I would think so but with Larry Allen on the ballot as well, they hurt each others chances getting on this year.. I think both go, no brainer, but HOF voters can be real IDIOTS sometimes and you never know if they will or wont put these 2 in the same year..
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strahan over Ogden and Allen?

Hmmmmm
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MaddHatter


Joined: 29 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UofMfan909 wrote:
MaddHatter wrote:
If LA isn't a first ballot HOF'er, I'd be shocked. Probably one of the Top 3 offensive lineman in the history of the game and he played 3 or 4 of the 5 spots at an All-Pro level


Top three is a stretch, but Allen and Ogden are two of the all time elites on the OL. This could be the best OL class ever (without looking up past classes), with Ogden, Allen, and Will Shields potentially all making it in. All three are worthy and on my top five posted earlier.


Is there a better Guard in the history of the NFL?
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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mco65 wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
Half these posers don't think Ogden is getting in?

I was pretty young during his prime, but he was one of the biggest freak athletes I've ever seen in the nfl. Was consistently great year in and year out. He also has the buzz-ish "media-friendly" items like a super bowl ring, 11 consecutive pro-bowls, and blocking for a 2000 yard rusher.

I think Ogden, Strahan, Allen, and Sapp should all be first ballot guys.


The question is NOT whether Ogden gets in... he's getting in.. the question is does he get in on his 1st ballot.. I would think so but with Larry Allen on the ballot as well, they hurt each others chances getting on this year.. I think both go, no brainer, but HOF voters can be real IDIOTS sometimes and you never know if they will or wont put these 2 in the same year..


I agree with your assessment here. I think the logic of "well players A, B, C, D and E are the best in this class, but A, C and D all played Oline, so let's put in F rather than C this year" is just ridiculous.
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