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Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens and David Patten
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Canton


Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 369
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject: Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens and David Patten Reply with quote

We have Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Branch still.. along with Rob and Aaron at TE .. what was it about that 2004 group mentioned above?

Seems like our current receivers are the most talented we've perhaps ever had in NE..
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samgurl775


Joined: 09 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's always exciting when the Patriots forum gets new posters.
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Canton


Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

samgurl775 wrote:
It's always exciting when the Patriots forum gets new posters.


Thank you, my last post .. but seriously, I just want feedback on what people think about those group of receivers during the Championship years to now. Talent wise, we are better off now but it seems like those guys had something else...
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

samgurl775 wrote:
It's always exciting when the Patriots forum gets new posters.
I could take it or leave it.
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redsoxsrule1437


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had a more talented defense then. Our offense is clearly better now, but our defense played major roles in our SB victories.

Man, I loved David Givens though.
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing really compares to Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Dontae Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, Ben Watson, and Kevin Faulk.

Randy Moss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Lloyd
2007 Wes Welker >>> 2012 Wes Welker
Jabar Gaffney >>> Deion Branch
Kevin Faulk >>>> Danny Woodhead
Dontae Stallworth << Aaron Hernandez
Ben Watson <<<<<<<<< Rob Gronkowski

Just talking about our championship years, yeah we have better receivers now; but that was also the case in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Nothing really compares to Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Dontae Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, Ben Watson, and Kevin Faulk.

Randy Moss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Lloyd
2007 Wes Welker >>> 2012 Wes Welker
Jabar Gaffney >>> Deion Branch
Kevin Faulk >>>> Danny Woodhead
Dontae Stallworth << Aaron Hernandez
Ben Watson <<<<<<<<< Rob Gronkowski

Just talking about our championship years, yeah we have better receivers now; but that was also the case in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010.


There's a way bigger gap between Hernandez and Stallworth than between 2007 Faulk and 2012 Woodhead.

Also, I think if you look at Moss/Watson vs. Gronkowski/Lloyd it's not really that big of a difference in terms of overall impact on both the offense and opposing defense. It's just a different type of impact.

I'd still give the edge to 2007 but I don't think it's really that big of a gap.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watson did a lot of things on that team as a receiver that didn't really show up on the stat sheet. A good 6-7 long balls got the receiver open with Watson distracting the safety. They loved the send either the TE or WW on deep post patter while the outside receiver ran a straight go (see Moss long TD in Buffalo, long catch vs. Indy).

TBH Idk why we do not try similar things now.
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ChazStandard


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Watson did a lot of things on that team as a receiver that didn't really show up on the stat sheet. A good 6-7 long balls got the receiver open with Watson distracting the safety. They loved the send either the TE or WW on deep post patter while the outside receiver ran a straight go (see Moss long TD in Buffalo, long catch vs. Indy).

TBH Idk why we do not try similar things now.


I'm not going to check film or anything, but I just flat out don't believe that any defense EVER covered Ben Watson at the expense of Welker or Moss during 2007. If they did the DC should have been fired and/or committed.

If your safety decides to cover Watson over letting Randy friggin' Moss get open deep....cut him.
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChazStandard wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Watson did a lot of things on that team as a receiver that didn't really show up on the stat sheet. A good 6-7 long balls got the receiver open with Watson distracting the safety. They loved the send either the TE or WW on deep post patter while the outside receiver ran a straight go (see Moss long TD in Buffalo, long catch vs. Indy).

TBH Idk why we do not try similar things now.


I'm not going to check film or anything, but I just flat out don't believe that any defense EVER covered Ben Watson at the expense of Welker or Moss during 2007. If they did the DC should have been fired and/or committed.

If your safety decides to cover Watson over letting Randy friggin' Moss get open deep....cut him.


http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d803e4990/Week-9-Tom-Brady-highlights

3:!5 into it.

Watson is also a better deep threat than Wes Welker, yet......

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d8044f997/Week-11-Randy-Moss-highlights
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ChazStandard


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
ChazStandard wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Watson did a lot of things on that team as a receiver that didn't really show up on the stat sheet. A good 6-7 long balls got the receiver open with Watson distracting the safety. They loved the send either the TE or WW on deep post patter while the outside receiver ran a straight go (see Moss long TD in Buffalo, long catch vs. Indy).

TBH Idk why we do not try similar things now.


I'm not going to check film or anything, but I just flat out don't believe that any defense EVER covered Ben Watson at the expense of Welker or Moss during 2007. If they did the DC should have been fired and/or committed.

If your safety decides to cover Watson over letting Randy friggin' Moss get open deep....cut him.


http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d803e4990/Week-9-Tom-Brady-highlights

3:!5 into it.

Watson is also a better deep threat than Wes Welker, yet......

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d8044f997/Week-11-Randy-Moss-highlights


That play at 3.15, the safety didn't shade over Watson instead of Moss. You can see that Randy is doubled, he just beat the double team. I'm not great at reading these things at full speed....but it looks to me like they were playing zone and the deep safety is on Moss's side. Moss beats his corner (23) easily forcing the safety (41) to make the tackle...the second DB that was covering Watson comes in late. I don't see Watson having any bearing on that except he was on the field.
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TKOhitter8737


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

redsoxsrule1437 wrote:
We had a more talented defense then. Our offense is clearly better now, but our defense played major roles in our SB victories.

Man, I loved David Givens though.


Im with you Givens was one of the best clutch WR they had. Plus he's also the same type of Wr they need now, someone that can just throw guys off him at the line.
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mattyl13


Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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Location: Exiled in Maine
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was the reason for Givens not making it back? I always thought he tore an ACL.. something they regularly come back from.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattyl13 wrote:
What was the reason for Givens not making it back? I always thought he tore an ACL.. something they regularly come back from.


Quote:
As he exploded out of his cut, the inner workings of his left knee had the equivalent of a three-car highway pileup. The anterior cruciate ligament was torn. So was the meniscus - medial and lateral. The femur behind the kneecap broke off and shattered, as the knee shifted in directions it wasn't designed to go.

Four doctors turned him away for surgery because of the severity of the injury, and by the time Givens traveled to Birmingham, Ala., to see noted orthopedic surgeon James Andrews, the words he was hearing were scary.

"He performed the surgery and basically told me that he hadn't seen such an extensive injury from a wide receiver," recalled Givens, who now has artificial bone plugs in his knee and leg. "He let me know that it was going to be very, very tough to come back from, and that it could be a process of three or four surgeries, or it just may take some time. That was very tough to hear."


http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/11/30/rerouted_receiver/?page=full
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it was basically the Robert Edwards injury?
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