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Canton
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 81
Location: Virginia
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 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens and David Patten |
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We have Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Branch still.. along with Rob and Aaron at TE .. what was it about that 2004 group mentioned above?
Seems like our current receivers are the most talented we've perhaps ever had in NE.. |
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samgurl775
Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 11094
Location: Lake Tahoe, NV
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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It's always exciting when the Patriots forum gets new posters.
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| Troy Brown wrote: | | But thing is, you're like half-girl. You like sports and seemingly think logically. |
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Canton
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 81
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| samgurl775 wrote: | | It's always exciting when the Patriots forum gets new posters. |
Thank you, my last post .. but seriously, I just want feedback on what people think about those group of receivers during the Championship years to now. Talent wise, we are better off now but it seems like those guys had something else... |
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 40627
Location: Slowly coming to terms with the inevitable
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| samgurl775 wrote: | | It's always exciting when the Patriots forum gets new posters. |
I could take it or leave it.
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redsoxsrule1437
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 13248
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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We had a more talented defense then. Our offense is clearly better now, but our defense played major roles in our SB victories.
Man, I loved David Givens though.
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NextBigThing
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 15886
Location: Tuck Rule FTW
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing really compares to Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Dontae Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, Ben Watson, and Kevin Faulk.
Randy Moss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Lloyd
2007 Wes Welker >>> 2012 Wes Welker
Jabar Gaffney >>> Deion Branch
Kevin Faulk >>>> Danny Woodhead
Dontae Stallworth << Aaron Hernandez
Ben Watson <<<<<<<<< Rob Gronkowski
Just talking about our championship years, yeah we have better receivers now; but that was also the case in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010.
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The King Does As He Pleases
| NFLfan511 wrote: | | NBT, I made an account here just because of you. |
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16200
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| NextBigThing wrote: | Nothing really compares to Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Dontae Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, Ben Watson, and Kevin Faulk.
Randy Moss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Lloyd
2007 Wes Welker >>> 2012 Wes Welker
Jabar Gaffney >>> Deion Branch
Kevin Faulk >>>> Danny Woodhead
Dontae Stallworth << Aaron Hernandez
Ben Watson <<<<<<<<< Rob Gronkowski
Just talking about our championship years, yeah we have better receivers now; but that was also the case in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010. |
There's a way bigger gap between Hernandez and Stallworth than between 2007 Faulk and 2012 Woodhead.
Also, I think if you look at Moss/Watson vs. Gronkowski/Lloyd it's not really that big of a difference in terms of overall impact on both the offense and opposing defense. It's just a different type of impact.
I'd still give the edge to 2007 but I don't think it's really that big of a gap. |
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NextBigThing
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 15886
Location: Tuck Rule FTW
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Watson did a lot of things on that team as a receiver that didn't really show up on the stat sheet. A good 6-7 long balls got the receiver open with Watson distracting the safety. They loved the send either the TE or WW on deep post patter while the outside receiver ran a straight go (see Moss long TD in Buffalo, long catch vs. Indy).
TBH Idk why we do not try similar things now.
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| NFLfan511 wrote: | | NBT, I made an account here just because of you. |
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ChazStandard
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 2118
Location: The bandwagon, hop on up!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| NextBigThing wrote: | Watson did a lot of things on that team as a receiver that didn't really show up on the stat sheet. A good 6-7 long balls got the receiver open with Watson distracting the safety. They loved the send either the TE or WW on deep post patter while the outside receiver ran a straight go (see Moss long TD in Buffalo, long catch vs. Indy).
TBH Idk why we do not try similar things now. |
I'm not going to check film or anything, but I just flat out don't believe that any defense EVER covered Ben Watson at the expense of Welker or Moss during 2007. If they did the DC should have been fired and/or committed.
If your safety decides to cover Watson over letting Randy friggin' Moss get open deep....cut him.
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| ConnPatFan wrote: | | We always assumed BB was playing chess...In fact he is playing Monopoly, and can now put up hotels on Rutgers Secondary. |
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NextBigThing
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 15886
Location: Tuck Rule FTW
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| ChazStandard wrote: | | NextBigThing wrote: | Watson did a lot of things on that team as a receiver that didn't really show up on the stat sheet. A good 6-7 long balls got the receiver open with Watson distracting the safety. They loved the send either the TE or WW on deep post patter while the outside receiver ran a straight go (see Moss long TD in Buffalo, long catch vs. Indy).
TBH Idk why we do not try similar things now. |
I'm not going to check film or anything, but I just flat out don't believe that any defense EVER covered Ben Watson at the expense of Welker or Moss during 2007. If they did the DC should have been fired and/or committed.
If your safety decides to cover Watson over letting Randy friggin' Moss get open deep....cut him. |
http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d803e4990/Week-9-Tom-Brady-highlights
3:!5 into it.
Watson is also a better deep threat than Wes Welker, yet......
http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d8044f997/Week-11-Randy-Moss-highlights
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The King Does As He Pleases
| NFLfan511 wrote: | | NBT, I made an account here just because of you. |
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ChazStandard
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 2118
Location: The bandwagon, hop on up!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| NextBigThing wrote: | | ChazStandard wrote: | | NextBigThing wrote: | Watson did a lot of things on that team as a receiver that didn't really show up on the stat sheet. A good 6-7 long balls got the receiver open with Watson distracting the safety. They loved the send either the TE or WW on deep post patter while the outside receiver ran a straight go (see Moss long TD in Buffalo, long catch vs. Indy).
TBH Idk why we do not try similar things now. |
I'm not going to check film or anything, but I just flat out don't believe that any defense EVER covered Ben Watson at the expense of Welker or Moss during 2007. If they did the DC should have been fired and/or committed.
If your safety decides to cover Watson over letting Randy friggin' Moss get open deep....cut him. |
http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d803e4990/Week-9-Tom-Brady-highlights
3:!5 into it.
Watson is also a better deep threat than Wes Welker, yet......
http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d8044f997/Week-11-Randy-Moss-highlights |
That play at 3.15, the safety didn't shade over Watson instead of Moss. You can see that Randy is doubled, he just beat the double team. I'm not great at reading these things at full speed....but it looks to me like they were playing zone and the deep safety is on Moss's side. Moss beats his corner (23) easily forcing the safety (41) to make the tackle...the second DB that was covering Watson comes in late. I don't see Watson having any bearing on that except he was on the field.
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| ConnPatFan wrote: | | We always assumed BB was playing chess...In fact he is playing Monopoly, and can now put up hotels on Rutgers Secondary. |
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TKOhitter8737
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 231
Location: northeast
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| redsoxsrule1437 wrote: | We had a more talented defense then. Our offense is clearly better now, but our defense played major roles in our SB victories.
Man, I loved David Givens though. |
Im with you Givens was one of the best clutch WR they had. Plus he's also the same type of Wr they need now, someone that can just throw guys off him at the line. |
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mattyl13
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 10
Location: Exiled in Maine
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| What was the reason for Givens not making it back? I always thought he tore an ACL.. something they regularly come back from. |
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16200
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| mattyl13 wrote: | | What was the reason for Givens not making it back? I always thought he tore an ACL.. something they regularly come back from. |
| Quote: | As he exploded out of his cut, the inner workings of his left knee had the equivalent of a three-car highway pileup. The anterior cruciate ligament was torn. So was the meniscus - medial and lateral. The femur behind the kneecap broke off and shattered, as the knee shifted in directions it wasn't designed to go.
Four doctors turned him away for surgery because of the severity of the injury, and by the time Givens traveled to Birmingham, Ala., to see noted orthopedic surgeon James Andrews, the words he was hearing were scary.
"He performed the surgery and basically told me that he hadn't seen such an extensive injury from a wide receiver," recalled Givens, who now has artificial bone plugs in his knee and leg. "He let me know that it was going to be very, very tough to come back from, and that it could be a process of three or four surgeries, or it just may take some time. That was very tough to hear." |
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/11/30/rerouted_receiver/?page=full |
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 40627
Location: Slowly coming to terms with the inevitable
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