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2013 Draft Thread Version 2.0
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14295
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.

He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.

I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.

He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.

I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him


ziggy >> werner
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 21716
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.

He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.

I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.

He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.

I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him


Pretty much where I am w/ him and he was among my favorites.

I'm having a heck of time with this class and probably over thinking it because it's been so long since the Raiders had a 1st round pick. But I look at the 'top' guys and I see similar players who could be had with a later pick.

I want to fall in love with Star, but is he that much better than Kawan Short? Is Werner, Moore that much better than Okafor? Maybe.

It's why I'm liking the idea of going QB or trading down if at all possible.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a soft playoff team like New England, Green Bay,Atlanta that needs to change how easily they get pushed around on defense will trade anything for Star.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 31760
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.

He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.

I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.

He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.

I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him


Pretty much where I am w/ him and he was among my favorites.

I'm having a heck of time with this class and probably over thinking it because it's been so long since the Raiders had a 1st round pick. But I look at the 'top' guys and I see similar players who could be had with a later pick.

I want to fall in love with Star, but is he that much better than Kawan Short? Is Werner, Moore that much better than Okafor? Maybe.

It's why I'm liking the idea of going QB or trading down if at all possible.


Exactly. I'm just tempted to say freaking trade to a team between picks 8 and 16, get a 2nd and take Warmack. These prospects are kind of pissing me off haha. They're all flawed in some way. Not a single one is a homerun outside of Warmack. And still there's no guarantee that he won't bust. I understand we've been spoiled with the last few years as far as top end talent goes but my freaking God. Is it so much to ask for prospects without big concerns?

I am absolutely positive Reggie is praying that someone falls in love with Geno or Joeckel and one of them is around for our pick. It would be epic to fleece someone for once.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 4286
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.

He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.

I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.

He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.

I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him


Pretty much where I am w/ him and he was among my favorites.

I'm having a heck of time with this class and probably over thinking it because it's been so long since the Raiders had a 1st round pick. But I look at the 'top' guys and I see similar players who could be had with a later pick.

I want to fall in love with Star, but is he that much better than Kawan Short? Is Werner, Moore that much better than Okafor? Maybe.

It's why I'm liking the idea of going QB or trading down if at all possible.


Exactly. I'm just tempted to say freaking trade to a team between picks 8 and 16, get a 2nd and take Warmack. These prospects are kind of pissing me off haha. They're all flawed in some way. Not a single one is a homerun outside of Warmack. And still there's no guarantee that he won't bust. I understand we've been spoiled with the last few years as far as top end talent goes but my freaking God. Is it so much to ask for prospects without big concerns?

I am absolutely positive Reggie is praying that someone falls in love with Geno or Joeckel and one of them is around for our pick. It would be epic to fleece someone for once.


Yup I am with you on this. Not too bothered if we don't get 'fair' value but if we can pick up some extra picks in 2nd/3rd round I would be tempted. Warmack, Jordan or Milliner maybe?
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5219
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 31760
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else.


No because he's a total dirtbag.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 13878
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.

He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.

I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.

He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.

I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him


This. Werner isn't top 10 worthy to me, i like Okafor more than him. Actually, Datone Jones might jump them both once i learn a bit more about him.
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else.


No because he's a total dirtbag.


we could use some toughness.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5219
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else.


No because he's a total dirtbag.


we could use some toughness.


I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team.
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Raidin wrote:
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 3425
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else.


No because he's a total dirtbag.


we could use some toughness.


I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team.

Yes
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz, would look real nice.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3566
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else.


No because he's a total dirtbag.


we could use some toughness.


I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team.

Yes
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz, would look real nice.


Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz- Warmack looks better.
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THE MAD STORK


Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 379
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else.


No because he's a total dirtbag.


we could use some toughness.


I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team.

Yes
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz, would look real nice.


Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz- Warmack looks better.

+1 and Barnes is not nearly as bad as everyone on here makes him out to be.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 5501
Location: CA-TX
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE MAD STORK wrote:
bitty wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else.


No because he's a total dirtbag.


we could use some toughness.


I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team.

Yes
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz, would look real nice.


Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz- Warmack looks better.

+1 and Barnes is not nearly as bad as everyone on here makes him out to be.


Barnes is terrible.
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justwinbaby81


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3729
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE MAD STORK wrote:
bitty wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else.


No because he's a total dirtbag.


we could use some toughness.


I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team.

Yes
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz, would look real nice.


Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz- Warmack looks better.

+1 and Barnes is not nearly as bad as everyone on here makes him out to be.


You're right. He's worse.
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