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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12585
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
ziggy >> werner
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| green24 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you |
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19056
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Pretty much where I am w/ him and he was among my favorites.
I'm having a heck of time with this class and probably over thinking it because it's been so long since the Raiders had a 1st round pick. But I look at the 'top' guys and I see similar players who could be had with a later pick.
I want to fall in love with Star, but is he that much better than Kawan Short? Is Werner, Moore that much better than Okafor? Maybe.
It's why I'm liking the idea of going QB or trading down if at all possible.
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bitty
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 2989
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I think a soft playoff team like New England, Green Bay,Atlanta that needs to change how easily they get pushed around on defense will trade anything for Star. |
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24644
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Pretty much where I am w/ him and he was among my favorites.
I'm having a heck of time with this class and probably over thinking it because it's been so long since the Raiders had a 1st round pick. But I look at the 'top' guys and I see similar players who could be had with a later pick.
I want to fall in love with Star, but is he that much better than Kawan Short? Is Werner, Moore that much better than Okafor? Maybe.
It's why I'm liking the idea of going QB or trading down if at all possible. |
Exactly. I'm just tempted to say freaking trade to a team between picks 8 and 16, get a 2nd and take Warmack. These prospects are kind of pissing me off haha. They're all flawed in some way. Not a single one is a homerun outside of Warmack. And still there's no guarantee that he won't bust. I understand we've been spoiled with the last few years as far as top end talent goes but my freaking God. Is it so much to ask for prospects without big concerns?
I am absolutely positive Reggie is praying that someone falls in love with Geno or Joeckel and one of them is around for our pick. It would be epic to fleece someone for once.
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Dessie
Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 3844
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Pretty much where I am w/ him and he was among my favorites.
I'm having a heck of time with this class and probably over thinking it because it's been so long since the Raiders had a 1st round pick. But I look at the 'top' guys and I see similar players who could be had with a later pick.
I want to fall in love with Star, but is he that much better than Kawan Short? Is Werner, Moore that much better than Okafor? Maybe.
It's why I'm liking the idea of going QB or trading down if at all possible. |
Exactly. I'm just tempted to say freaking trade to a team between picks 8 and 16, get a 2nd and take Warmack. These prospects are kind of pissing me off haha. They're all flawed in some way. Not a single one is a homerun outside of Warmack. And still there's no guarantee that he won't bust. I understand we've been spoiled with the last few years as far as top end talent goes but my freaking God. Is it so much to ask for prospects without big concerns?
I am absolutely positive Reggie is praying that someone falls in love with Geno or Joeckel and one of them is around for our pick. It would be epic to fleece someone for once. |
Yup I am with you on this. Not too bothered if we don't get 'fair' value but if we can pick up some extra picks in 2nd/3rd round I would be tempted. Warmack, Jordan or Milliner maybe?
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| bitty wrote: | I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked. |
#clueless |
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3768
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else.
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope |
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24644
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else. |
No because he's a total dirtbag.
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| husker_vikes3 wrote: | | What do you season your meatballs and sausage with? |
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 12753
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
This. Werner isn't top 10 worthy to me, i like Okafor more than him. Actually, Datone Jones might jump them both once i learn a bit more about him.
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macklemore
Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else. |
No because he's a total dirtbag. |
we could use some toughness.
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3768
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| macklemore wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else. |
No because he's a total dirtbag. |
we could use some toughness. |
I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team.
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope |
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raidr4life
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 2173
Location: Fresno, California
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else. |
No because he's a total dirtbag. |
we could use some toughness. |
I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team. |
Yes
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz, would look real nice.
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OUR FUTURE PREMIERE LT!!
Mad props to Silver&Black88 on the sig. |
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bitty
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 2989
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| raidr4life wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else. |
No because he's a total dirtbag. |
we could use some toughness. |
I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team. |
Yes
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz, would look real nice. |
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz- Warmack looks better. |
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THE MAD STORK
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| bitty wrote: | | raidr4life wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else. |
No because he's a total dirtbag. |
we could use some toughness. |
I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team. |
Yes
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz, would look real nice. |
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz- Warmack looks better. |
+1 and Barnes is not nearly as bad as everyone on here makes him out to be. |
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4169
Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| THE MAD STORK wrote: | | bitty wrote: | | raidr4life wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else. |
No because he's a total dirtbag. |
we could use some toughness. |
I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team. |
Yes
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz, would look real nice. |
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz- Warmack looks better. |
+1 and Barnes is not nearly as bad as everyone on here makes him out to be. |
Barnes is terrible.
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| candyman93 wrote: | Reading Darkness posts you'd think the warriors were playoff contenders  |
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justwinbaby81
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3080
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| THE MAD STORK wrote: | | bitty wrote: | | raidr4life wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else. |
No because he's a total dirtbag. |
we could use some toughness. |
I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team. |
Yes
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz, would look real nice. |
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz- Warmack looks better. |
+1 and Barnes is not nearly as bad as everyone on here makes him out to be. |
You're right. He's worse.
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