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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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Location: CA-TX
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 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Here's Werner's sophomore highlights when he played above 270 lbs and lined up some at RDE. He's a terror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyG6L70fws
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bitty
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 2990
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Here's Werner's sophomore highlights when he played above 270 lbs and lined up some at RDE. He's a terror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyG6L70fws |
You are right he does look good at 270 |
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19066
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Here's Werner's sophomore highlights when he played above 270 lbs and lined up some at RDE. He's a terror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyG6L70fws |
Ah yes.... that's what I liked about him.
I hate the draft process. Too much gets said and you start forgetting what you saw watching them play. You hear he takes plays off and has an inconsistent motor and start focusing on that.
I've already started over thinking this draft and it's only January. Must be desperate for some new blood
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19066
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
ziggy >> werner |
So I see the Senior Bowl has produced your favorite all world athlete to jock for months.
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reddevil
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 401
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Here's Werner's sophomore highlights when he played above 270 lbs and lined up some at RDE. He's a terror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyG6L70fws |
Ah yes.... that's what I liked about him.
I hate the draft process. Too much gets said and you start forgetting what you saw watching them play. You hear he takes plays off and has an inconsistent motor and start focusing on that.
I've already started over thinking this draft and it's only January. Must be desperate for some new blood |
How widespread are the concerns about his motor? I know he didn't impress in his last game and that a number of posters on here stated that he seemed to give up on plays, but is this a complaint throughout his college career? Most pundits and writers are really high on him and expect him to be one of the first players off the board, some as high as Jax at 2. |
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24696
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Here's Werner's sophomore highlights when he played above 270 lbs and lined up some at RDE. He's a terror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyG6L70fws |
That, he is. I do think he'll end up adding weight again, but I'm a Moore guy still. Nice vid though for sure.
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THE MAD STORK
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| justwinbaby81 wrote: | | THE MAD STORK wrote: | | bitty wrote: | | raidr4life wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | macklemore wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | Being that a successful draft usually consists of acquiring 2-3 players who actually contribute, as many weak links should addressed as possible through FA to provide more focus in scouting saving man hours and resources. That being said wouldn't you rather cut Brisiel and give the $4M he was due to Pro Bowl Alternate MIA LG Incognito who was expected to make $4M this season allowing the Raiders to use this must needed draft pick somewhere else. |
No because he's a total dirtbag. |
we could use some toughness. |
I like him to. He's scrappy and would immediate embody not only a tough, physical, PBS philosophy but a throwback Raider persona. Incognito is the kind of guy you love'em when he's on your team. |
Yes
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz, would look real nice. |
Veldheer- Incognito- Wiz- Warmack looks better. |
+1 and Barnes is not nearly as bad as everyone on here makes him out to be. |
You're right. He's worse. |
He's not terrible..you guys blame him way to much, and give people like wiz way to much credit |
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holyghost
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5310
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Here's Werner's sophomore highlights when he played above 270 lbs and lined up some at RDE. He's a terror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyG6L70fws |
That, he is. I do think he'll end up adding weight again, but I'm a Moore guy still. Nice vid though for sure. |
It's a nice tape because it's a highlight vid. Every highlight vid looks great, because they're compiled with great plays. Mike Mitchell looked like an inhuman hellfire in his highlight vid. |
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12594
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Here's Werner's sophomore highlights when he played above 270 lbs and lined up some at RDE. He's a terror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyG6L70fws |
how many top 25 teams did he face in that video? 1?
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| green24 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you |
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12594
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
ziggy >> werner |
So I see the Senior Bowl has produced your favorite all world athlete to jock for months. |
i remember you hyping him up early in the season but i just dismissed him as a workout warrior. then i watched the senior game. that made me go back and watch tape on him. from the games i watches (nd, b.s, utah, utah st and georgia tech) the senior bowl performance was no fluke. he isnt a finished product but imo no prospect is.
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3774
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| bitty wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Here's Werner's sophomore highlights when he played above 270 lbs and lined up some at RDE. He's a terror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyG6L70fws |
You are right he does look good at 270 |
LOL. Ahh yes ye ole' eye ball test. Looks like oversized pads to me but we'll see at the combine. However, if Werner did put on 20lbs of good weight in one season I'd definitely have other concerns. But that's jmo I don't need a nutritional breakdown as to how it's possible to put on 20 lbs and retain it throughout the season. I lift weights avidly and I'll still have my own opinion. Thanks in advance.
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4177
Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | bitty wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Here's Werner's sophomore highlights when he played above 270 lbs and lined up some at RDE. He's a terror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyG6L70fws |
You are right he does look good at 270 |
LOL. Ahh yes ye ole' eye ball test. Looks like oversized pads to me but we'll see at the combine. However, if Werner did put on 20lbs of good weight in one season I'd definitely have other concerns. But that's jmo I don't need a nutritional breakdown as to how it's possible to put on 20 lbs and retain it throughout the season. I lift weights avidly and I'll still have my own opinion. Thanks in advance. |
That was during his sophomore season. He lost weight this season, not gained it.
| Quote: | That production came on the heels of an offseason in which Werner dropped 20 pounds, from the 275 he played at as a sophomore to 255 entering the '12 campaign and playing in the 260-265 range.
"Last year, after five plays, I was tired. Now I can go 20 plays, and I'm not tired at all," Werner said in August. "That was 10 pounds straight of fat. What's that going to do for me?" |
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| candyman93 wrote: | | Reading Darkness posts you'd think the warriors were playoff contenders |
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RaisinBran
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 8877
Location: 925 Bay Area
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| holyghost wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Here's Werner's sophomore highlights when he played above 270 lbs and lined up some at RDE. He's a terror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyG6L70fws |
That, he is. I do think he'll end up adding weight again, but I'm a Moore guy still. Nice vid though for sure. |
It's a nice tape because it's a highlight vid. Every highlight vid looks great, because they're compiled with great plays. Mike Mitchell looked like an inhuman hellfire in his highlight vid. |
Mitchell's highlights weren't that great. All he did was hit running backs that didn't see him coming.
If anything the highlight video for him lacked in plays in the passing game which should have been a sign to us that he was going to suck in coverage (he's getting better though).
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Rolni
Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 2167
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Here's Werner's sophomore highlights when he played above 270 lbs and lined up some at RDE. He's a terror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyG6L70fws |
Great HL, but he lined up at LDE a lot...maybe that's his place in the NFL too? We need RDE...
just thinking loud...
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4177
Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Rolni wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | I thought about it and I think I don't want Werner at all any more. He's got hella potential but there are a few big issues imo.
He projects to SDE for one. Where we have Lamarr Houston. Sure, we could try to slide Houston to a 3-Tech DT but is that really best for the team? We already have Bryant there (presumably) and Bilukidi is a tweener as it is.
I really don't like his motor. If you have questions about your motor as a 4-3 DE and you're a top pick, that's really concerning to me.
He's a little small for a LDE too; he'll need to add weight imo to stack up against the bigger RTs. He's strong but he's still about 255. I don't see him tearing it up over there like Burgess used to as a pass rusher. And I'm not sure how he'll fare with speed/quickness if he puts on some weight.
I haven't looked into him really in depth, but these are all reasons to me that we shouldn't pick him |
Here's Werner's sophomore highlights when he played above 270 lbs and lined up some at RDE. He's a terror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyG6L70fws |
Great HL, but he lined up at LDE a lot...maybe that's his place in the NFL too? We need RDE...
just thinking loud... |
That's why I said "some". He's a LDE
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| candyman93 wrote: | | Reading Darkness posts you'd think the warriors were playoff contenders |
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