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Allen one and done?
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Ro4DPoY


Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Posts: 549
Location: VA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really do want DA and RM under contract for another two years. I don't care if we have a winning record the first step in the right direction is just having a franchise with some consistency, and at least for the first time in a long time we actually have someone getting the salary cap under control.

I'm as upset with the results as anyone else but it's hard not to think we're heading towards where the Texans and Packers are right now. The next thing to look forward to is FA and the draft, whoever it is that we get with our first pick next year if they produce at a very high level i'll be happy.
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m52876


Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 3199
Location: Right here
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Bo_Spice wrote:
macklemore wrote:
shouldn't judge Knapp on one year, he has no talent to work with. He needs a real off-season and another year to install his scheme.


Oakland (2012): 18th in total offense, 29th in scoring offense
Seattle (2009): 21st in total offense, 25th in scoring offense
Oakland (2008): 29th in total offense, 29th in scoring offense
Oakland (2007): 25th in total offense, 23rd in scoring offense
Atlanta (2006): 12th in total offense, 25th in scoring offense
Atlanta (2005): 12th in total offense, 14th in scoring offense
Atlanta (2004): 21st in total offense, 16th in scoring offense

But yes, obviously he needs time to prove he can be a good offensive coordinator in the NFL. Laughing

IS he really that bad??? Shocked Holy Hell! d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


Can you spot the difference in the stats below? This was all known before he was hired. Still Allen's worst decision to date. No need to bring in a journeyman, known commodity with an average track record to restart your franchise. Time to correct that mistake.

Seattle (2009): 21st in total offense, 25th in scoring offense
Oakland (2008): 29th in total offense, 29th in scoring offense
Oakland (2007): 25th in total offense, 23rd in scoring offense
Atlanta (2006): 12th in total offense, 25th in scoring offense
Atlanta (2005): 12th in total offense, 14th in scoring offense
Atlanta (2004): 21st in total offense, 16th in scoring offense
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BlackPrestige92


Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Posts: 5778
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

m52876 wrote:
BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Bo_Spice wrote:
macklemore wrote:
shouldn't judge Knapp on one year, he has no talent to work with. He needs a real off-season and another year to install his scheme.


Oakland (2012): 18th in total offense, 29th in scoring offense
Seattle (2009): 21st in total offense, 25th in scoring offense
Oakland (2008): 29th in total offense, 29th in scoring offense
Oakland (2007): 25th in total offense, 23rd in scoring offense
Atlanta (2006): 12th in total offense, 25th in scoring offense
Atlanta (2005): 12th in total offense, 14th in scoring offense
Atlanta (2004): 21st in total offense, 16th in scoring offense

But yes, obviously he needs time to prove he can be a good offensive coordinator in the NFL. Laughing

IS he really that bad??? Shocked Holy Hell! d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


Can you spot the difference in the stats below? This was all known before he was hired. Still Allen's worst decision to date. No need to bring in a journeyman, known commodity with an average track record to restart your franchise. Time to correct that mistake.

Seattle (2009): 21st in total offense, 25th in scoring offense
Oakland (2008): 29th in total offense, 29th in scoring offense
Oakland (2007): 25th in total offense, 23rd in scoring offense
Atlanta (2006): 12th in total offense, 25th in scoring offense
Atlanta (2005): 12th in total offense, 14th in scoring offense
Atlanta (2004): 21st in total offense, 16th in scoring offense

I hear the people saying we need continuity, I do. I'd be all for it! It's just this guy sucks harder than the shows on the WB!
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Indeed. Which is why I found his quote about being objective hilarious.


Looks like winter break ended early for S&B88 because I'm about to take him to school.

Hello, My name is Mr. Macklemore and this is English 101. Please, muchacho have a seat.

Lesson 1
Today, we will learn the definition of objective.

Your homework tonight is to use objective in a sentence.

--

Now that I'm done teaching, we can resume conversation.

None of my opinions have been influenced by or rooted in emotion, I crafted every single one after carefully weighing facts. Simply put, I left my personal feelings out of them i.e. objectivity.

If you think my mockery of the logic used by Allen apologists was done in spite, you're incorrect. I saw a contradiction in their logic, (that I don't need to explain because you already know). I attempted to use a form of humor to illuminate the fallacy in their logic. If I stray from being objective, I'm only human, I'm bound to make mistakes, I hope you don't let those isolated opinions define me, instead look at the majority of my work on this board and marvel in its magnificence. If you can't tell that last part was in jest, I can't help you.
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RunDmc23


Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One and done i sure hope so. for both allen and knapp. I think RM is going to be an awesome Gm in the way he goes about business, Im hoping we get a passionate energetic coach Jon gruden-harbaugh type.
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RunDmc23


Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One and done i sure hope so. for both allen and knapp. I think RM is going to be an awesome Gm in the way he goes about business, Im hoping we get a passionate energetic coach Jon gruden-harbaugh type.
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RunDmc23


Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One and done i sure hope so. for both allen and knapp. I think RM is going to be an awesome Gm in the way he goes about business, Im hoping we get a passionate energetic coach Jon gruden-harbaugh type.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we do fire Dennis Allen anytime soon I really hope we take a long hard look at David Shaw. He's doing great things with the Stanford program and has the makings of a great future NFL head coach.
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Professor Oak


Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 3643
Location: Pallet Town
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
If we do fire Dennis Allen anytime soon I really hope we take a long hard look at David Shaw. He's doing great things with the Stanford program and has the makings of a great future NFL head coach.

Don't see that happening anytime soon after the long term extension he signed last week.

I'm not a fan of DA, but firing him might not be the best move right now in the GM's eyes. I wouldn't be surprised either way (if we kept him or fired him). Rotoworld is just speculating for the sake of making a story at this point.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just have kind a hard time seeing the new regime firing a rookie head coach after one season. McKenzie and Davis invested a lot in Allen as he is the first head coach in the new era of Raiders football. The fact that they decided to go with such a young guy is just a testimant to the fact that we're rebuilding this thing for the long haul.
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
I just have kind a hard time seeing the new regime firing a rookie head coach after one season. McKenzie and Davis invested a lot in Allen as he is the first head coach in the new era of Raiders football. The fact that they decided to go with such a young guy is just a testimant to the fact that we're rebuilding this thing for the long haul.


Or maybe they hired Dennis Allen because he was the high card in a bad hand.

If I remember right we were last team looking to hire a HC.

Could it be that all the good candidates were already hired?
Could it be that Reggie McKenzie settled for Dennis Allen?
Could it be that Dennis isn't Reggie's 'guy'?
Could it be that Reggie wants to hire a real HC this off-season?






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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3622
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are assuming it's Mark Davis asking Reggie to fire Allen and not Reggie asking permission from Davis to fire Allen.
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nbaker1933


Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 2074
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

m52876 wrote:
BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Bo_Spice wrote:
macklemore wrote:
shouldn't judge Knapp on one year, he has no talent to work with. He needs a real off-season and another year to install his scheme.


Oakland (2012): 18th in total offense, 29th in scoring offense
Seattle (2009): 21st in total offense, 25th in scoring offense
Oakland (2008): 29th in total offense, 29th in scoring offense
Oakland (2007): 25th in total offense, 23rd in scoring offense
Atlanta (2006): 12th in total offense, 25th in scoring offense
Atlanta (2005): 12th in total offense, 14th in scoring offense
Atlanta (2004): 21st in total offense, 16th in scoring offense

But yes, obviously he needs time to prove he can be a good offensive coordinator in the NFL. Laughing

IS he really that bad??? Shocked Holy Hell! d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


Can you spot the difference in the stats below? This was all known before he was hired. Still Allen's worst decision to date. No need to bring in a journeyman, known commodity with an average track record to restart your franchise. Time to correct that mistake.

Seattle (2009): 21st in total offense, 25th in scoring offense
Oakland (2008): 29th in total offense, 29th in scoring offense
Oakland (2007): 25th in total offense, 23rd in scoring offense
Atlanta (2006): 12th in total offense, 25th in scoring offense
Atlanta (2005): 12th in total offense, 14th in scoring offense
Atlanta (2004): 21st in total offense, 16th in scoring offense


ATL-2003 29th, 20th
Oak-2006 32nd 32nd
SEA-2008 28th 25th
Oak-2011 9th 16th

Its not like he has had a lot to work with.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 2786
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
You guys are assuming it's Mark Davis asking Reggie to fire Allen and not Reggie asking permission from Davis to fire Allen.


I don't think this is the case. I'm pretty sure Reggie can fire the coach if he wanted wether or not Davis approves. It has been stated that Davisis displeased with the losing and around here when you here that it means the coach is going to get the axe. Of course things are different now with Reggie in charge whatever happens to Allen is his call.

Personally I want to keep Allen. Was knapp a stupid choice? Yes I knew that it wouldn't work and so did everyone else. However there wasn't anyone else out there when Allen got hired. Knapp was the most experienced coach, I mean I don't think there was anyone who could implement the west coast/ZBS offense that they want to run. So now with the concepts in place we could hire the right guy for the job early next year.

Now people have questioned the guy's passion. They say that players won't play for him and they need a Jim Harbaugh/John Gruden type. I disagree. While both head coaches have has success in the nfl only one has won a Super Bowl, and he kinda derped into it,not really a good measuring rod. Within the last decade to me the number of reserved head coaches to win Super Bowl have been higher than the crazy yelling on the sideline coaches. Think about it: tony dungy Sean Payton, Mike Mcarthy, Mike Tomlin, and bill belicheck.

So I say we keep him for one more year, we hire a new OC and see what happens.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5183
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
Raidin wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Raidin wrote:
macklemore wrote:
Raidin wrote:
He hasn't been outspoken lately. He held one interview session with the media all season, that was over a month ago. Your link is garbage. Wow the owner thinks 3 wins isn't good enough, OMG111!!!! this is ground breaking information right here, who would have thought an owner would think 3 wins season isn't good enough?! That was honestly the most enlightening article I have ever read. Truly.


If Mark was a meddling owner he wouldn't have hired Reggie as I said. If Reggie gets an ultimatium about having to sack he will walk, and I'd be surprised if it's not written into his contract that he has final say on all footballing decisions.


does it even matter if he has that written in his contract? Mark Davis can fire him when ever he pleases.

And what kind of fantasy world are you living in if you think Reggie McKenzie is just going to walk if he doesn't get his way? You think he is just going to happily give up all the money he makes because of Dennis Allen? how is Narnia this time of year? I've been thinking about vacationing there.




If Reggie is fired he'll get his contract paid up, he wouldn't be giving up any money. Maybe you should come back to earth first before thinking about any more vacations.


He also won't have a job and likely not get another GM job for a long, long time. Do you not think at all?



Why wouldn't he get another GM job? He mightn't get one right away but he'll have a far better chance than if he stuck in the job and was the GM while Mark ran the franchise into the ground. Maybe you'd be stupid enough to think Reggie career prospects would look far better after multiple losing seasons and then a firing but I doubt many other people would agree.


Who hires GM's? Owners..

Now why would an owner hire a GM who got fired because he defied his owner. It's not like Reggie has a great resume, his stint in Oakland would like a complete failure.

whats this multiple losing seasons bit? I see two dead even years in a row, then the arrival of Reggie McKenzie and a 4-12 year. Reggie McKenzie would be back in the college scouting department.




There are plenty of owners in the NFL who don't want to have any input in the running of a team, they'd have no problem hiring Reggie because he refused to follow an order from an owner who knows nothing about football. It will be multiple losing seasons if Mark Davis has the final say in our dealings.
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