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RG3 May have Torn ACL/PCL
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Phire


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fsubrowns9510 wrote:
IMO RG3 needs to be put in a different category. He is a top 5 talent in the game, in his first year, and his team gave up a TON to even get him. His health shouldn't be taken lightly at all.

Yea, even if it means putting your backup in for the playoff game. Its 1 game. Ruin RG3's career and it will be harder to get back to that spot.


You could apply the same logic to why they should have played him.

He was playing on a bad knee for weeks. It did significantly get worse in that game, though.

Top 5 talent in the game. Team gave up a TON to get him. Team's captain and dubbed its 'savior'.

You play to win the game, hindsight is 20/20 and RG3 would probably be healing fine today if it weren't for a terrible snap and an awkward, non-contact injury.

Imagine shutting down RG3 with a 1 point lead, only to lose with Cousins looking like a Joe Webb.
Then we'd have threads saying the following:

"You play to win the game!"
"He's RG3! You leave him in!"
"Why give up!"
"He was the chosen one!"
"He's top 5 talent!"

Etc., etc., etc.
Difficult decision, difficult situation. Especially after watching Joe Webb.
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mco65


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, its a catch 22.. damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Cutler got absolutely crucified for not going back into the NFC Championship game a few years back and now RGIII goes back in and his coaches get absolutely crucified.. WTF!

The Redskins front office can do whatever they want to Shannahan but to suggest the league should step in and fine or suspend him is ludicrous. It was not a concussion, it was a knee injury which damn near half the players are dealing with at this time of year... It is out of the leagues jurisdiction period.

Let's just WAIT until all the facts about the injury are in before we start the Coach bashing.. my gut tells me that RGIII will be under center for opening day next fall. My gut also tells me the Redskins will call fewer and fewer lead draws... but what do i know!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incredible dumb to put him back on the field, sadly it hurts RG3
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mco65 wrote:
Yea, its a catch 22.. damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Cutler got absolutely crucified for not going back into the NFC Championship game a few years back and now RGIII goes back in and his coaches get absolutely crucified.. WTF!

The Redskins front office can do whatever they want to Shannahan but to suggest the league should step in and fine or suspend him is ludicrous. It was not a concussion, it was a knee injury which damn near half the players are dealing with at this time of year... It is out of the leagues jurisdiction period.

Let's just WAIT until all the facts about the injury are in before we start the Coach bashing.. my gut tells me that RGIII will be under center for opening day next fall. My gut also tells me the Redskins will call fewer and fewer lead draws... but what do i know!

The difference between the RG3 and the Cutler situation is that RG3 had a known injury coming into the game that clearly aggravated and was making him ineffective, and his coach still put him out there to absolutely no benefit. It was a boneheaded move, and he should be in big trouble.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguarfan wrote:
mco65 wrote:
Yea, its a catch 22.. damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Cutler got absolutely crucified for not going back into the NFC Championship game a few years back and now RGIII goes back in and his coaches get absolutely crucified.. WTF!

The Redskins front office can do whatever they want to Shannahan but to suggest the league should step in and fine or suspend him is ludicrous. It was not a concussion, it was a knee injury which damn near half the players are dealing with at this time of year... It is out of the leagues jurisdiction period.

Let's just WAIT until all the facts about the injury are in before we start the Coach bashing.. my gut tells me that RGIII will be under center for opening day next fall. My gut also tells me the Redskins will call fewer and fewer lead draws... but what do i know!

The difference between the RG3 and the Cutler situation is that RG3 had a known injury coming into the game that clearly aggravated and was making him ineffective, and his coach still put him out there to absolutely no benefit. It was a boneheaded move, and he should be in big trouble.
Especially how bad the field looked. He should have just yanked him at halftime. Cousins could have had a better game. That field that day was better suited for a pocket passer any way.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lionslicer wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
lionslicer wrote:
This situation will probably be investigated by the NFL, it's obvious right no one knows whats going on.

The team doctor didn't do his job correctly and should be fired, Shanahan probably will be fined for taking an unnecessary risk, but that's it, he didn't actually do anything wrong.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2013/01/06/mike-shanahan-addresses-robert-griffin-iii-knee-injury/1812693/

"Coach Shanahan would never put him back in unhealthy or without asking us." - doctor who is saying he never cleared Griffin to go back in.

Seems the doctor did not tell Shanahan that Griffin wasn't okay to go back in, he just kept to himself on the sidelines.
Griffin, who is also at fault, refused to let the trainers look at him, and the head doctor dude pretty much just accepted that and didn't examine him.

I think Shanahan doesn't deserve the blame people want to give him, it seemed he was very uninformed on this situation because of an incompetent doctor, though I think he should be fined for taking an unnecessary risk. He knew Griffin already had a knee injury, and now has another injury on top of that, there is no reason to put him back in the game.
That incompetent Doc is the world's best orthopedic surgeon and the THE GUY TO SEE FOR SPORTS INJURIES, Dr. James Andrews. Dr. Andrews has already told us that Mike Shanahan lied when he said that he had cleared RG3 to return to the Cleveland game. That doc told us he never cleared RG3 b/c he never examined RG3.

Those wanting to absolve Mike Shanahan of the blame lets look at the track record here

he puts Terrell Davis back in the SuperBowl AFTER Davis has told him he is having such a severe migraine he can not see

he puts RG3 back in the game AFTER RG3 suffers a concussion later lies about it

he puts RG3 back in the game AFTER he suffers a grade 1 sprain w/o consulting the medical staff.

he leaves RG3 in the game AFTER he reaggrivates the previous injury, is slow to get up and limping back to the huddle

he leaves RG3 in the game AFTER its clear that RG3 can not protect himself at all, can't plant to throw, can't move, he's literally a sitting target. Meanwhile his son calls only 3 run plays in the 3rd quarter.

Please oh please defend that.



I'm not defending what Shanahan did, I'm just saying the doctor was being incompetent and Shanahan didn't do anything as insane as people are claiming.

People literally think the doctor said "No don't put him in, his leg is in shreds" and Shanahan still put him in and lied about it, which is not what happened.

I don't care how good the doctor is, he didn't do his job. His job isn't just to examine the players, but is to relay what happened and give appropriate advice. How are you going to defend that... He gets paid to examine players and make sure they are safe during game, yet he pretty much let Griffin walk all over him, and then, just tells Shanahan "Yeah he's okay to go" without saying anything about Griffin refusing to get examined and that he believed Griffin should not have returned to the game.

The doctor was sure Griffin would have been injured if he went back in, and he didn't say anything. Sure he's a great doctor, but that is not acceptable anywhere.
Quote:
Yet when asked by news reporters, Shanahan described a conversation with Andrews this way:

"He's on the sidelines with Dr. Andrews. He had a chance to look at him and he said he could go back in," Shanahan said Dec. 10. "(I said) 'Hey, Dr. Andrews, can Robert go back in?'

'Yeah, he can go back in.'

'Robert, go back in.'

"That was it," Shanahan said.

Only that's not the way it happened, Andrews said. What's more, Andrews remains worried about Griffin's health as the Redskins play the Seattle Seahawks in an NFC wild-card game at FedEx Field today.


"I'm the one that shut him down that day, finally," Andrews said. "I've been a nervous wreck letting him come back as quick as he has. He's doing a lot better this week, but he's still recovering and I'm holding my breath because of it.


Yeah, try putting the blame on the doc again. Dr Andrews in no way cleared RG3 in Cleveland, and likely wasn't allowed to examine him again (since that is the history w/ Mike Shanahan).

Tell me again how the worlds foremost orthopedic surgeon is incompetent.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguarfan wrote:
mco65 wrote:
Yea, its a catch 22.. damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Cutler got absolutely crucified for not going back into the NFC Championship game a few years back and now RGIII goes back in and his coaches get absolutely crucified.. WTF!

The Redskins front office can do whatever they want to Shannahan but to suggest the league should step in and fine or suspend him is ludicrous. It was not a concussion, it was a knee injury which damn near half the players are dealing with at this time of year... It is out of the leagues jurisdiction period.

Let's just WAIT until all the facts about the injury are in before we start the Coach bashing.. my gut tells me that RGIII will be under center for opening day next fall. My gut also tells me the Redskins will call fewer and fewer lead draws... but what do i know!

The difference between the RG3 and the Cutler situation is that RG3 had a known injury coming into the game that clearly aggravated and was making him ineffective, and his coach still put him out there to absolutely no benefit. It was a boneheaded move, and he should be in big trouble.
No the difference is RG3 is a media darling and Jay Cutler just doesn't care about the media
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulger2holt wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
bulger2holt wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
RGIII will be ok. But I hope this is a lesson to Shanahan and co. Develop him as a pocket passer so his career doesn't go the way of Daunte Culpepper's.



His mobility makes him what he is. That's like asking Nolan Ryan to be an off speed pitcher.


No, it doesn't. His mobility is a huge benefit but RGIII has all the passing ability to be great at it. Just needs development.

It's not at all comparable to baseball. So lets not make irrelevant comparisons.


Defenses not knowing what to expect helps his passing game. If he was primarily a pocket passer, they would scheme for that.


I'm with bulger here. People always talk about how easy it should be to draft a college QB who ran all the time and turn him into a pocket passer. Why are you drafting someone at the top of the first round if you're planning NOT to use his most valuable asset? I agree that running around in the pros gets you hurt far more often than in college. But then teams need to stop taking players like RGIII and Vick at the top of the draft.

We saw the same failed experiment with Vince Young who was admittedly, about 10,000x less of a QB than RGIII. But the Titans watched him tear up college football by being a dual threat, teasing defenses with his legs and killing them with roll-outs, then tried to tell him to stay in the pocket and focus on reading defenses. RGIII could probably learn to do that, but he sure wasn't worth all those draft picks if he never leaves the pocket.

I liked the Nolan Ryan comparison. Imagine the Nats telling Strasburg to throw all change-ups because his fastball is too violent for his shoulder to hold up. Maybe they're right, but then why did you spend so much on a talent that shouldn't be using his best asset at the next level?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GBPackers79 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
Not shocking. Mike & Kyle should be fired immediately and reprimanded/fined by the NFL.


Why? RGIII told them he was fine. Sure, it's taking someone's word and his competitive nature might have led him to say what he did but who are they to say he's lying? This cannot be blamed on the coaches at all.


Are you serious....?

They're his coaches. The ones watching him limp all over the field. The ones who hold the power to take him out.

Anyone with a decent amount of competitiveness in them isn't going to take themselves out of a playoff game. This is absolutely, 100% on them. To say they cannot be blamed AT ALL is laughable.


OK maybe partial blame, I'll give you that, but to sit here and say it's all their fault is equally laughable.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bearsfan9310 wrote:
I find it funny how people gave Cutler crap for his knee injury in the NFC championship game. It shows how a knee sprain has the chance to develop into a career-threatening injury if you continue playing on it.


Which is why it is pathetic people saying Shanahan would have got criticised for leaving him out so he can't win etc.
Nobody can honestly criticise Cutler now that his injury is known for not playing.Yes they did at the time but no one knew the extent of the injury.
I'm not saying Shanahan was right or wrong but if he takes the fact he may get criticised into any sort of decision then he doesn't deserve to be a coach in the NFL.
Now if he lied about the injury and he really knew how bad it was then it does look like he was willing to risk a players health in pursuit of a win.Yes RGIII said he wants to play but he's a rookie kid who does appear to be very interested in his own image and wouldn't want to be seen as a quitter.
Who would have called him a quitter if they knew the extent of the injury ?

Also by risking RGIII for this game hasn't he also reduced their chances next year and maybe RGIIIs talent for the future ?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keleth wrote:
Bearsfan9310 wrote:
I find it funny how people gave Cutler crap for his knee injury in the NFC championship game. It shows how a knee sprain has the chance to develop into a career-threatening injury if you continue playing on it.


Which is why it is pathetic people saying Shanahan would have got criticised for leaving him out so he can't win etc.
Nobody can honestly criticise Cutler now that his injury is known for not playing.Yes they did at the time but no one knew the extent of the injury.
I'm not saying Shanahan was right or wrong but if he takes the fact he may get criticised into any sort of decision then he doesn't deserve to be a coach in the NFL.
Now if he lied about the injury and he really knew how bad it was then it does look like he was willing to risk a players health in pursuit of a win.Yes RGIII said he wants to play but he's a rookie kid who does appear to be very interested in his own image and wouldn't want to be seen as a quitter.
Who would have called him a quitter if they knew the extent of the injury ?

Also by risking RGIII for this game hasn't he also reduced their chances next year and maybe RGIIIs talent for the future ?


With Cutler it wasn't completely his injury, it's how he handled it. He went and sat on the bench, wasn't paying attention, wasn't talking with his backup, he got hurt and checked out and just sat there looking like he was pouting. That has as much to do with anything as him getting hurt and sitting.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
Keleth wrote:
Bearsfan9310 wrote:
I find it funny how people gave Cutler crap for his knee injury in the NFC championship game. It shows how a knee sprain has the chance to develop into a career-threatening injury if you continue playing on it.


Which is why it is pathetic people saying Shanahan would have got criticised for leaving him out so he can't win etc.
Nobody can honestly criticise Cutler now that his injury is known for not playing.Yes they did at the time but no one knew the extent of the injury.
I'm not saying Shanahan was right or wrong but if he takes the fact he may get criticised into any sort of decision then he doesn't deserve to be a coach in the NFL.
Now if he lied about the injury and he really knew how bad it was then it does look like he was willing to risk a players health in pursuit of a win.Yes RGIII said he wants to play but he's a rookie kid who does appear to be very interested in his own image and wouldn't want to be seen as a quitter.
Who would have called him a quitter if they knew the extent of the injury ?

Also by risking RGIII for this game hasn't he also reduced their chances next year and maybe RGIIIs talent for the future ?


With Cutler it wasn't completely his injury, it's how he handled it. He went and sat on the bench, wasn't paying attention, wasn't talking with his backup, he got hurt and checked out and just sat there looking like he was pouting. That has as much to do with anything as him getting hurt and sitting.
Again let me help out here, the TV showed Cutler sitting on the bench by himself in 10 sec clips. In reality he was in Caleb's ear between every series, as Caleb told us himself. The Fn team stood up for the guy and people continue to spew nonsense.
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Bearsfan9310


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
Keleth wrote:
Bearsfan9310 wrote:
I find it funny how people gave Cutler crap for his knee injury in the NFC championship game. It shows how a knee sprain has the chance to develop into a career-threatening injury if you continue playing on it.


Which is why it is pathetic people saying Shanahan would have got criticised for leaving him out so he can't win etc.
Nobody can honestly criticise Cutler now that his injury is known for not playing.Yes they did at the time but no one knew the extent of the injury.
I'm not saying Shanahan was right or wrong but if he takes the fact he may get criticised into any sort of decision then he doesn't deserve to be a coach in the NFL.
Now if he lied about the injury and he really knew how bad it was then it does look like he was willing to risk a players health in pursuit of a win.Yes RGIII said he wants to play but he's a rookie kid who does appear to be very interested in his own image and wouldn't want to be seen as a quitter.
Who would have called him a quitter if they knew the extent of the injury ?

Also by risking RGIII for this game hasn't he also reduced their chances next year and maybe RGIIIs talent for the future ?


With Cutler it wasn't completely his injury, it's how he handled it. He went and sat on the bench, wasn't paying attention, wasn't talking with his backup, he got hurt and checked out and just sat there looking like he was pouting. That has as much to do with anything as him getting hurt and sitting.


Once people knew Cutler sprained his MCL, they still called him out on it. But for the most part, yes, RG3's success in the future in terms of his knee holding up will be up in the air.

Spilltray - Clearly you use a couple of seconds of what the media purposely came up with as evidence for how he handled it. You don't see the times he's a teammate because the media doesn't want to look for that. He helped Hanie by talking to him, like Superman said. Many of the other quarterbacks in this league would do the same thing. Cutler doesn't have to be jumping up and down on the sidelines to be a good teammate.
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Xfaxtor


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Incredible dumb to put him back on the field, sadly it hurts RG3


Hey, you want to win put Boobie in.
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Slaymont Harris


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:


With Cutler it wasn't completely his injury, it's how he handled it. He went and sat on the bench, wasn't paying attention, wasn't talking with his backup, he got hurt and checked out and just sat there looking like he was pouting. That has as much to do with anything as him getting hurt and sitting.


Not true. Skip to 10:00 in this video, where Hanie explains how Jay supported him during the 2nd half and had his earpiece in the whole time and was into the game:
[url]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8k4sM4U8yI[/url]

In case anyone thinks Hanie is lying in order to protect Cutler, what he said was confirmed by all of the writers and reporters that were on the sideline.
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