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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33038
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I would really prefer Dion Jordan if we were to try to select a LB capable of pass rushing. Bigger, better in coverage and already a respectable pass rusher. With some coaching and our scheming from Tarver and Allen, I truly believe Jordan could be our difference maker. Plus we might be able to sneak down to like 8 or 9 to pick him while netting a 2nd or 3rd in the process


If I could choose between picking Jarvis Jones and trading down and getting Dion Jordan and an extra 2nd I would probably take Dion. He's number 7 on my board with the most to gain after workouts. A unique blend of pure athleticism and unmatchable versatility...he could really flourish into an Aldon Smith type guy. If we could end up with him and Tavon Austin for our third pick...that's probably my ideal draft. Get a ridiculously versatile gadget player on both sides of the ball. Mismatches drive success in today's league.

Yeah its official, I don't really care that it could be an awkward fit: I'm banging the Dion Jordan drum. Don't care if we move Burris to MLB with Wheeler at WLB or if we move away from Wheeler. Jordan is my dude as of now. He could be Wimbley but so much better. Like a bigger Von Miller or like an Aldon Smith better in coverage. Feels weird to be so gung ho about a Duck.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3643
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:


Since you're so smart please enlighten me on how does being older not help a college player.
You probably won't even answer this because as usual you're wrong.


I'm usually wrong, but everyone agrees that your comment was dumb.

Being older has nothing to do with a guys skill set. Clowney for example, many said he could play in the NFL out of high school. By your logic, he would be a poor player because he was younger.

Chance Warmack is 21. By your logic, he shouldn't be as good a player as a guard who is 23? Yet he could start today in the NFL and be an elite prospect. There is your answer. You're story is full of holes.

Also, I speaking of questions being answered. I've now asked you twice how many times you've watched Jones play. To which you've avoided showing you know you are just looking at stat sheets and judging his game. You're track record speaks for itself.



Stop twisting my words I said a player will be better at 23 then at 20.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'm twisting your words. Your words would say that 21 year old Warmack isn't as good as a 26 year old guard Bergstrom.

You might want to know what your words are before saying they are being twisted. Laughing Laughing


Keep on making stuff up, still doesn't make you right.
I said that Von Miller was a better then Jones because they are both the same age and Von Miller is All-Pro and Jones is All-SEC
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5364
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
I would really prefer Dion Jordan


I'll take that as your admission that Oregon > USC

Shh. Too late, already done. No takesies backsies!

Duck Power.
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La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22480
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Yogi wrote:
Bo_Spice wrote:
If Jarvis Jones checks out medically he'd be a no brainer at number three.

Just asking, does this guy have anything besides a speed move?


Well, i haven't paid a lot of attention to him since i don't think the Raiders should take a chance on that guy but from the little i've seen, it seems to be a huge part of his pass rush. When the olinemen get their hands on him, he usually can't get off blocks. When he beats them with his first step, he's effective. Maybe some people who have watched him more would disagree though.


He has great edge speed and bend around the edge. He's solid at setting up blockers and getting around them.

I agree he's got to work on his hand placement and slapping hands off him to get off blocks.

He has various tools as a pass rusher.

24.5 tackles for a loss and 14.5 sacks in 2012. What's impressive here is after his 2011 season (13.5 sacks) he was on the radar. He received constant double teams and chips from RBs/TEs. He excelled.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33038
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
I said that Von Miller was a better then Jones because they are both the same age and Von Miller is All-Pro and Jones is All-SEC


Which is shotty logic. If you would have said "Von Miller at 23 is a better football player than Von Miller at 21" then you would have at least been logical. But it still wouldn't really help your argument.

The comparison you are making isn't really a good one to make, as they are in different situations. Meaning the 2 aren't really comparable. At least in that sense.
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101Raider


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2447
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Yeah its official, I don't really care that it could be an awkward fit: I'm banging the Dion Jordan drum. Don't care if we move Burris to MLB with Wheeler at WLB or if we move away from Wheeler. Jordan is my dude as of now. He could be Wimbley but so much better. Like a bigger Von Miller or like an Aldon Smith better in coverage. Feels weird to be so gung ho about a Duck.


My ideal draft is a trade down to grab Dion as well. Might be sacrilegious, but a trade with SD @12 in order for them to grab Joeckel might be ideal. Use the acquired 2nd and grab a CB like Amerson/Poyer, a NT in Williams/Short or MLB in Minter. With the 3rd grab OT Brennan Williams, OG Warford, OLB Gerald Hodges or Sean Porter (preferably) and we've got some cornerstones for our franchise.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22480
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Yogi wrote:
Bo_Spice wrote:
If Jarvis Jones checks out medically he'd be a no brainer at number three.

Just asking, does this guy have anything besides a speed move?


Well, i haven't paid a lot of attention to him since i don't think the Raiders should take a chance on that guy but from the little i've seen, it seems to be a huge part of his pass rush. When the olinemen get their hands on him, he usually can't get off blocks. When he beats them with his first step, he's effective. Maybe some people who have watched him more would disagree though.


Its really hard to find unbiased opinions on him. A lot of people are like you and I, uninformed because we aren't really considering picking him. But it looks to me like about everyone else who would consider him is in love with him. I think I'll poke around the internet and draft forum to read up more.


Yeah, i'm just commenting on the little i saw and he didn't show great technique.


To be perfectly honest, I'm just scouting him because I feel like I should since it is a real possibility that we pick him.

I would really prefer Dion Jordan if we were to try to select a LB capable of pass rushing. Bigger, better in coverage and already a respectable pass rusher. With some coaching and our scheming from Tarver and Allen, I truly believe Jordan could be our difference maker. Plus we might be able to sneak down to like 8 or 9 to pick him while netting a 2nd or 3rd in the process


If I could choose between picking Jarvis Jones and trading down and getting Dion Jordan and an extra 2nd I would probably take Dion. He's number 7 on my board with the most to gain after workouts. A unique blend of pure athleticism and unmatchable versatility...he could really flourish into an Aldon Smith type guy. If we could end up with him and Tavon Austin for our third pick...that's probably my ideal draft. Get a ridiculously versatile gadget player on both sides of the ball. Mismatches drive success in today's league.


I approve this. Jordan/Austin and an added pick. Win/win.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22480
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:


Since you're so smart please enlighten me on how does being older not help a college player.
You probably won't even answer this because as usual you're wrong.


I'm usually wrong, but everyone agrees that your comment was dumb.

Being older has nothing to do with a guys skill set. Clowney for example, many said he could play in the NFL out of high school. By your logic, he would be a poor player because he was younger.

Chance Warmack is 21. By your logic, he shouldn't be as good a player as a guard who is 23? Yet he could start today in the NFL and be an elite prospect. There is your answer. You're story is full of holes.

Also, I speaking of questions being answered. I've now asked you twice how many times you've watched Jones play. To which you've avoided showing you know you are just looking at stat sheets and judging his game. You're track record speaks for itself.



Stop twisting my words I said a player will be better at 23 then at 20.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'm twisting your words. Your words would say that 21 year old Warmack isn't as good as a 26 year old guard Bergstrom.

You might want to know what your words are before saying they are being twisted. Laughing Laughing


Keep on making stuff up, still doesn't make you right.
I said that Von Miller was a better then Jones because they are both the same age and Von Miller is All-Pro and Jones is All-SEC


Comparing a college player against a pro player. How ridiculous can you get. You have absolutely no point.

Again, 4th attempt how much have you actually watched Jarvis play? I know the answer, but I want to hear you try to make something up. Laughing Laughing
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justwinbaby81


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3810
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I would really prefer Dion Jordan if we were to try to select a LB capable of pass rushing. Bigger, better in coverage and already a respectable pass rusher. With some coaching and our scheming from Tarver and Allen, I truly believe Jordan could be our difference maker. Plus we might be able to sneak down to like 8 or 9 to pick him while netting a 2nd or 3rd in the process


If I could choose between picking Jarvis Jones and trading down and getting Dion Jordan and an extra 2nd I would probably take Dion. He's number 7 on my board with the most to gain after workouts. A unique blend of pure athleticism and unmatchable versatility...he could really flourish into an Aldon Smith type guy. If we could end up with him and Tavon Austin for our third pick...that's probably my ideal draft. Get a ridiculously versatile gadget player on both sides of the ball. Mismatches drive success in today's league.

Yeah its official, I don't really care that it could be an awkward fit: I'm banging the Dion Jordan drum. Don't care if we move Burris to MLB with Wheeler at WLB or if we move away from Wheeler. Jordan is my dude as of now. He could be Wimbley but so much better. Like a bigger Von Miller or like an Aldon Smith better in coverage. Feels weird to be so gung ho about a Duck.


By March I might be riding shotgun on your bandwagon. I want to see his combine, but I predict he is going to be the big story and end up a top ten pick. I mean come on,the guy was talked about as being a CB and a DE. When the hell does that happen?
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33038
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

101Raider wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Yeah its official, I don't really care that it could be an awkward fit: I'm banging the Dion Jordan drum. Don't care if we move Burris to MLB with Wheeler at WLB or if we move away from Wheeler. Jordan is my dude as of now. He could be Wimbley but so much better. Like a bigger Von Miller or like an Aldon Smith better in coverage. Feels weird to be so gung ho about a Duck.


My ideal draft is a trade down to grab Dion as well. Might be sacrilegious, but a trade with SD @12 in order for them to grab Joeckel might be ideal. Use the acquired 2nd and grab a CB like Amerson/Poyer, a NT in Williams/Short or MLB in Minter. With the 3rd grab OT Brennan Williams, OG Warford, OLB Gerald Hodges or Sean Porter (preferably) and we've got some cornerstones for our franchise.


I don't think he'll last that long --If NYJ is smart, they'll scarf him up. Same with Buffalo if they go back to 3-4. And I certainly am not all about trying to give Joeckel to SD Laughing

Personally, I would love to still try to get AZ to trade with us. Lewan is going back to school and Joeckel is that much better than Fisher. They have pieces on D and no QB is worth taking at their pick.

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I would really prefer Dion Jordan


I'll take that as your admission that Oregon > USC

Shh. Too late, already done. No takesies backsies!

Duck Power.


YOU SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE!
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101Raider


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2447
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
101Raider wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Yeah its official, I don't really care that it could be an awkward fit: I'm banging the Dion Jordan drum. Don't care if we move Burris to MLB with Wheeler at WLB or if we move away from Wheeler. Jordan is my dude as of now. He could be Wimbley but so much better. Like a bigger Von Miller or like an Aldon Smith better in coverage. Feels weird to be so gung ho about a Duck.


My ideal draft is a trade down to grab Dion as well. Might be sacrilegious, but a trade with SD @12 in order for them to grab Joeckel might be ideal. Use the acquired 2nd and grab a CB like Amerson/Poyer, a NT in Williams/Short or MLB in Minter. With the 3rd grab OT Brennan Williams, OG Warford, OLB Gerald Hodges or Sean Porter (preferably) and we've got some cornerstones for our franchise.




I don't think he'll last that long --If NYJ is smart, they'll scarf him up. Same with Buffalo if they go back to 3-4. And I certainly am not all about trying to give Joeckel to SD Laughing

Personally, I would love to still try to get AZ to trade with us. Lewan is going back to school and Joeckel is that much better than Fisher. They have pieces on D and no QB is worth taking at their pick.

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I would really prefer Dion Jordan


I'll take that as your admission that Oregon > USC

Shh. Too late, already done. No takesies backsies!

Duck Power.


YOU SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE!


Either AZ or SD are our best chances in my opinion. To be honest, I kinda forgot about NYJ. I keep thinking Mingo for them, but really they could easily go Dion. I'm kinda banking Dion's surgery drops him abit, at least past the NYJ.
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101Raider


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2447
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also if Dion's gone, Warmack makes a hell of a consolation prize. For those that don't know me, that's a huge turn around in my logic.

Never would I have thought I'd be okay grabing an OG in the 1st much less at the top 1/2 of the draft. Hell, I'd take Warmack easily in the top 10.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3643
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:


Since you're so smart please enlighten me on how does being older not help a college player.
You probably won't even answer this because as usual you're wrong.


I'm usually wrong, but everyone agrees that your comment was dumb.

Being older has nothing to do with a guys skill set. Clowney for example, many said he could play in the NFL out of high school. By your logic, he would be a poor player because he was younger.

Chance Warmack is 21. By your logic, he shouldn't be as good a player as a guard who is 23? Yet he could start today in the NFL and be an elite prospect. There is your answer. You're story is full of holes.

Also, I speaking of questions being answered. I've now asked you twice how many times you've watched Jones play. To which you've avoided showing you know you are just looking at stat sheets and judging his game. You're track record speaks for itself.



Stop twisting my words I said a player will be better at 23 then at 20.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'm twisting your words. Your words would say that 21 year old Warmack isn't as good as a 26 year old guard Bergstrom.

You might want to know what your words are before saying they are being twisted. Laughing Laughing


Keep on making stuff up, still doesn't make you right.
I said that Von Miller was a better then Jones because they are both the same age and Von Miller is All-Pro and Jones is All-SEC


Comparing a college player against a pro player. How ridiculous can you get. You have absolutely no point.

Again, 4th attempt how much have you actually watched Jarvis play? I know the answer, but I want to hear you try to make something up. Laughing Laughing


You were serious with that question? Of course I saw him play.
I have family in Atlanta and my nephew is thinking about going toGeorgia to play football. So I like to keep an eye on Geogia.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22480
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:


Since you're so smart please enlighten me on how does being older not help a college player.
You probably won't even answer this because as usual you're wrong.


I'm usually wrong, but everyone agrees that your comment was dumb.

Being older has nothing to do with a guys skill set. Clowney for example, many said he could play in the NFL out of high school. By your logic, he would be a poor player because he was younger.

Chance Warmack is 21. By your logic, he shouldn't be as good a player as a guard who is 23? Yet he could start today in the NFL and be an elite prospect. There is your answer. You're story is full of holes.

Also, I speaking of questions being answered. I've now asked you twice how many times you've watched Jones play. To which you've avoided showing you know you are just looking at stat sheets and judging his game. You're track record speaks for itself.



Stop twisting my words I said a player will be better at 23 then at 20.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'm twisting your words. Your words would say that 21 year old Warmack isn't as good as a 26 year old guard Bergstrom.

You might want to know what your words are before saying they are being twisted. Laughing Laughing


Keep on making stuff up, still doesn't make you right.
I said that Von Miller was a better then Jones because they are both the same age and Von Miller is All-Pro and Jones is All-SEC


Comparing a college player against a pro player. How ridiculous can you get. You have absolutely no point.

Again, 4th attempt how much have you actually watched Jarvis play? I know the answer, but I want to hear you try to make something up. Laughing Laughing


You were serious with that question? Of course I saw him play.
I have family in Atlanta and my nephew is thinking about going toGeorgia to play football. So I like to keep an eye on Geogia.


If you watched him closely, they you wouldn't be so ridiculously off base with your assessment. Just my opinion.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3643
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:


Since you're so smart please enlighten me on how does being older not help a college player.
You probably won't even answer this because as usual you're wrong.


I'm usually wrong, but everyone agrees that your comment was dumb.

Being older has nothing to do with a guys skill set. Clowney for example, many said he could play in the NFL out of high school. By your logic, he would be a poor player because he was younger.

Chance Warmack is 21. By your logic, he shouldn't be as good a player as a guard who is 23? Yet he could start today in the NFL and be an elite prospect. There is your answer. You're story is full of holes.

Also, I speaking of questions being answered. I've now asked you twice how many times you've watched Jones play. To which you've avoided showing you know you are just looking at stat sheets and judging his game. You're track record speaks for itself.



Stop twisting my words I said a player will be betther at 23 then at 20.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'm twisting your words. Your words would say that 21 year old Warmack isn't as good as a 26 year old guard Bergstrom.

You might want to know what your words are before saying they are being twisted. Laughing Laughing


Keep on making stuff up, still doesn't make you right.
I said that Von Miller was a better then Jones because they are both the same age and Von Miller is All-Pro and Jones is All-SEC


Comparing a college player against a pro player. How ridiculous can you get. You have absolutely no point.

Again, 4th attempt how much have you actually watched Jarvis play? I know the answer, but I want to hear you try to make something up. Laughing Laughing


You were serious with that question? Of course I saw him play.
I have family in Atlanta and my nephew is thinking about going toGeorgia to play football. So I like to keep an eye on Geogia.


If you watched him closely, they you wouldn't be so ridiculously off base with your assessment. Just my opinion.


What ridiculous comments that he has red flags? I admittedly haven't been watching the games as closely as I do a Raider game but I can't remember him ever going back in pass coverage. That right there is a red flag .

By the way of my nephews is 6'6 280 at 16 years old and plays LT.
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