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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 29872
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
There have been many great QBs that have never been part of a DYNASTY. Why? Because it takes the right person making the right decisions to maintain a dynasty. It isnt a matter of, "Oh, well we have a great QB. Were set."

You are overplaying the impact of a QB on a sustained dynasty in the modern NFL with rotating rosters and changing rules. It's the coach that keeps it all together. Not the QB. The QB is responsible for executing. The coach is responsible for everything else.

You're downplaying execution. That's what keeps the ball out of a defender's hands, that's what keeps the chains moving, and that's what puts points on the board.

You can tell a guy to do something until you're blue in the face, but he needs to execute it in order to be successful. It's the most crucial aspect of football.


I'm not downplaying executing. I am simply stating the facts. The QB is responsible for executing. Nothing more.

A great QBs impact on the building and maintaining of a dynasty is not as great as the impact of a great coach. The coach has to keep ahead of defenses, keep ahead of personel poachers, keep ahead of scouts in an effort to give his QB any chance of succeeding.
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FirstDownFaulk


Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
There have been many great QBs that have never been part of a DYNASTY. Why? Because it takes the right person making the right decisions to maintain a dynasty. It isnt a matter of, "Oh, well we have a great QB. Were set."

You are overplaying the impact of a QB on a sustained dynasty in the modern NFL with rotating rosters and changing rules. It's the coach that keeps it all together. Not the QB. The QB is responsible for executing. The coach is responsible for everything else.

You're downplaying execution. That's what keeps the ball out of a defender's hands, that's what keeps the chains moving, and that's what puts points on the board.

You can tell a guy to do something until you're blue in the face, but he needs to execute it in order to be successful. It's the most crucial aspect of football.


I'm not downplaying executing. I am simply stating the facts. The QB is responsible for executing. Nothing more.

A great QBs impact on the building and maintaining of a dynasty is not as great as the impact of a great coach. The coach has to keep ahead of defenses, keep ahead of personel poachers, keep ahead of scouts in an effort to give his QB any chance of succeeding.

You don't think a quarterback like Tom Brady is part of the gameplanning, and coaching ??

I've coached quarterbacks that have no clue what's going on and it shows in the teams record, and I've had some that know where everyone should be and what they should be doing. Kids that know what the defense is doing, they recognize the strengths/weaknesses, when/where to attack it and that show's in the team's success.

I don't think you understand the difference between a quarterback and a great quarterback and the difference in the effect they have on their team.
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jrry32 wrote:
Tom Brady hasn't left NE and proven himself not to be a system QB...so he is one.

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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 29872
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
There have been many great QBs that have never been part of a DYNASTY. Why? Because it takes the right person making the right decisions to maintain a dynasty. It isnt a matter of, "Oh, well we have a great QB. Were set."

You are overplaying the impact of a QB on a sustained dynasty in the modern NFL with rotating rosters and changing rules. It's the coach that keeps it all together. Not the QB. The QB is responsible for executing. The coach is responsible for everything else.

You're downplaying execution. That's what keeps the ball out of a defender's hands, that's what keeps the chains moving, and that's what puts points on the board.

You can tell a guy to do something until you're blue in the face, but he needs to execute it in order to be successful. It's the most crucial aspect of football.


I'm not downplaying executing. I am simply stating the facts. The QB is responsible for executing. Nothing more.

A great QBs impact on the building and maintaining of a dynasty is not as great as the impact of a great coach. The coach has to keep ahead of defenses, keep ahead of personel poachers, keep ahead of scouts in an effort to give his QB any chance of succeeding.

You don't think a quarterback like Tom Brady is part of the gameplanning, and coaching ??

I've coached quarterbacks that have no clue what's going on and it shows in the teams record, and I've had some that know where everyone should be and what they should be doing. Kids that know what the defense is doing, they recognize the strengths/weaknesses, when/where to attack it and that show's in the team's success.

I don't think you understand the difference between a quarterback and a great quarterback and the difference in the effect they have on their team.


You have coached high shool. I am assuming. Not sure though. I'm sorry, but your experience with head coaching does not make you an authority on the matter we are discussing. Heac coaching a dynasty in the NFL. So you can stop interjecting your experiences. Your experience puts you one step above my experience as a Madden player on this subject.

A great coach created the Packers dynasty. A great coach created the Browns dynasty. A great coach created the Niners dynasty. The Colts dynasty. The Steelers dynasty. The Cowboys dynasty. And a great coach created the Pats dynasty.

Does having a great QB help win games? Of course it does. But you need a lot more to stay relevant year after year and win championships year after year. You need the right coach steering the ship.

That isnt taking a thing away from Brady unless you are the type that honestly believes the QB is more important to the building and maintaining of a dynasty than a coach.
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FirstDownFaulk


Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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Location: New York
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
There have been many great QBs that have never been part of a DYNASTY. Why? Because it takes the right person making the right decisions to maintain a dynasty. It isnt a matter of, "Oh, well we have a great QB. Were set."

You are overplaying the impact of a QB on a sustained dynasty in the modern NFL with rotating rosters and changing rules. It's the coach that keeps it all together. Not the QB. The QB is responsible for executing. The coach is responsible for everything else.

You're downplaying execution. That's what keeps the ball out of a defender's hands, that's what keeps the chains moving, and that's what puts points on the board.

You can tell a guy to do something until you're blue in the face, but he needs to execute it in order to be successful. It's the most crucial aspect of football.


I'm not downplaying executing. I am simply stating the facts. The QB is responsible for executing. Nothing more.

A great QBs impact on the building and maintaining of a dynasty is not as great as the impact of a great coach. The coach has to keep ahead of defenses, keep ahead of personel poachers, keep ahead of scouts in an effort to give his QB any chance of succeeding.

You don't think a quarterback like Tom Brady is part of the gameplanning, and coaching ??

I've coached quarterbacks that have no clue what's going on and it shows in the teams record, and I've had some that know where everyone should be and what they should be doing. Kids that know what the defense is doing, they recognize the strengths/weaknesses, when/where to attack it and that show's in the team's success.

I don't think you understand the difference between a quarterback and a great quarterback and the difference in the effect they have on their team.


You have coached high shool. I am assuming. Not sure though. I'm sorry, but your experience with head coaching does not make you an authority on the matter we are discussing. Heac coaching a dynasty in the NFL. So you can stop interjecting your experiences. Your experience puts you one step above my experience as a Madden player on this subject.

A great coach created the Packers dynasty. A great coach created the Browns dynasty. A great coach created the Niners dynasty. The Colts dynasty. The Steelers dynasty. The Cowboys dynasty. And a great coach created the Pats dynasty.

Does having a great QB help win games? Of course it does. But you need a lot more to stay relevant year after year and win championships year after year. You need the right coach steering the ship.

That isnt taking a thing away from Brady unless you are the type that honestly believes the QB is more important to the building and maintaining of a dynasty than a coach.

Yes...but Bart Starr, Otto Graham, Joe Montana/Steve Young, Johnny Unitas, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman, and Tom Brady maintained them and without their execution...there is no dynasty. Coaches/GMs are the architects....quarterbacks are the foreman of the construction crew. They don't just simply "execute", they're in on the planning and they make changes/decisions when they see fit.

If you think that actually coaching and playing Madden are "one in the same"....


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jrry32 wrote:
Tom Brady hasn't left NE and proven himself not to be a system QB...so he is one.

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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 29872
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
There have been many great QBs that have never been part of a DYNASTY. Why? Because it takes the right person making the right decisions to maintain a dynasty. It isnt a matter of, "Oh, well we have a great QB. Were set."

You are overplaying the impact of a QB on a sustained dynasty in the modern NFL with rotating rosters and changing rules. It's the coach that keeps it all together. Not the QB. The QB is responsible for executing. The coach is responsible for everything else.

You're downplaying execution. That's what keeps the ball out of a defender's hands, that's what keeps the chains moving, and that's what puts points on the board.

You can tell a guy to do something until you're blue in the face, but he needs to execute it in order to be successful. It's the most crucial aspect of football.


I'm not downplaying executing. I am simply stating the facts. The QB is responsible for executing. Nothing more.

A great QBs impact on the building and maintaining of a dynasty is not as great as the impact of a great coach. The coach has to keep ahead of defenses, keep ahead of personel poachers, keep ahead of scouts in an effort to give his QB any chance of succeeding.

You don't think a quarterback like Tom Brady is part of the gameplanning, and coaching ??

I've coached quarterbacks that have no clue what's going on and it shows in the teams record, and I've had some that know where everyone should be and what they should be doing. Kids that know what the defense is doing, they recognize the strengths/weaknesses, when/where to attack it and that show's in the team's success.

I don't think you understand the difference between a quarterback and a great quarterback and the difference in the effect they have on their team.


You have coached high shool. I am assuming. Not sure though. I'm sorry, but your experience with head coaching does not make you an authority on the matter we are discussing. Heac coaching a dynasty in the NFL. So you can stop interjecting your experiences. Your experience puts you one step above my experience as a Madden player on this subject.

A great coach created the Packers dynasty. A great coach created the Browns dynasty. A great coach created the Niners dynasty. The Colts dynasty. The Steelers dynasty. The Cowboys dynasty. And a great coach created the Pats dynasty.

Does having a great QB help win games? Of course it does. But you need a lot more to stay relevant year after year and win championships year after year. You need the right coach steering the ship.

That isnt taking a thing away from Brady unless you are the type that honestly believes the QB is more important to the building and maintaining of a dynasty than a coach.

Yes...but Bart Starr, Otto Graham, Joe Montana/Steve Young, Johnny Unitas, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman, and Tom Brady maintained them and without their execution...there is no dynasty. Coaches/GMs are the architects....quarterbacks are the foreman of the construction crew. They don't just simply "execute", they're in on the planning and they make changes/decisions when they see fit.

If you think that actually coaching and playing Madden are "one in the same"....



Yes, because Aikman, Bradshaw and Starr were just beasts.

And if you think coaching a dysnasty in the NFL and coaching Pop Warner at the park are "one in the same"


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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be clear, was Bart Starr more important than Vince Lombardi in the building and maintenance of the Packers dynasty?
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FirstDownFaulk


Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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Location: New York
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
There have been many great QBs that have never been part of a DYNASTY. Why? Because it takes the right person making the right decisions to maintain a dynasty. It isnt a matter of, "Oh, well we have a great QB. Were set."

You are overplaying the impact of a QB on a sustained dynasty in the modern NFL with rotating rosters and changing rules. It's the coach that keeps it all together. Not the QB. The QB is responsible for executing. The coach is responsible for everything else.

You're downplaying execution. That's what keeps the ball out of a defender's hands, that's what keeps the chains moving, and that's what puts points on the board.

You can tell a guy to do something until you're blue in the face, but he needs to execute it in order to be successful. It's the most crucial aspect of football.


I'm not downplaying executing. I am simply stating the facts. The QB is responsible for executing. Nothing more.

A great QBs impact on the building and maintaining of a dynasty is not as great as the impact of a great coach. The coach has to keep ahead of defenses, keep ahead of personel poachers, keep ahead of scouts in an effort to give his QB any chance of succeeding.

You don't think a quarterback like Tom Brady is part of the gameplanning, and coaching ??

I've coached quarterbacks that have no clue what's going on and it shows in the teams record, and I've had some that know where everyone should be and what they should be doing. Kids that know what the defense is doing, they recognize the strengths/weaknesses, when/where to attack it and that show's in the team's success.

I don't think you understand the difference between a quarterback and a great quarterback and the difference in the effect they have on their team.


You have coached high shool. I am assuming. Not sure though. I'm sorry, but your experience with head coaching does not make you an authority on the matter we are discussing. Heac coaching a dynasty in the NFL. So you can stop interjecting your experiences. Your experience puts you one step above my experience as a Madden player on this subject.

A great coach created the Packers dynasty. A great coach created the Browns dynasty. A great coach created the Niners dynasty. The Colts dynasty. The Steelers dynasty. The Cowboys dynasty. And a great coach created the Pats dynasty.

Does having a great QB help win games? Of course it does. But you need a lot more to stay relevant year after year and win championships year after year. You need the right coach steering the ship.

That isnt taking a thing away from Brady unless you are the type that honestly believes the QB is more important to the building and maintaining of a dynasty than a coach.

Yes...but Bart Starr, Otto Graham, Joe Montana/Steve Young, Johnny Unitas, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman, and Tom Brady maintained them and without their execution...there is no dynasty. Coaches/GMs are the architects....quarterbacks are the foreman of the construction crew. They don't just simply "execute", they're in on the planning and they make changes/decisions when they see fit.

If you think that actually coaching and playing Madden are "one in the same"....



Yes, because Aikman, Bradshaw and Starr were just beasts.

And if you think coaching a dysnasty in the NFL and coaching Pop Warner at the park are "one in the same"


Can you wrap your mind around this ??

I never said that coaching a dynasty and coaching varsity football, playing college football were the same.....its about understanding the effect a quarterback's play has on the game and the success of a team.

Continue mocking it though.....there's more evidence supporting my stance than yours.
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jrry32 wrote:
Tom Brady hasn't left NE and proven himself not to be a system QB...so he is one.

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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 29872
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
There have been many great QBs that have never been part of a DYNASTY. Why? Because it takes the right person making the right decisions to maintain a dynasty. It isnt a matter of, "Oh, well we have a great QB. Were set."

You are overplaying the impact of a QB on a sustained dynasty in the modern NFL with rotating rosters and changing rules. It's the coach that keeps it all together. Not the QB. The QB is responsible for executing. The coach is responsible for everything else.

You're downplaying execution. That's what keeps the ball out of a defender's hands, that's what keeps the chains moving, and that's what puts points on the board.

You can tell a guy to do something until you're blue in the face, but he needs to execute it in order to be successful. It's the most crucial aspect of football.


I'm not downplaying executing. I am simply stating the facts. The QB is responsible for executing. Nothing more.

A great QBs impact on the building and maintaining of a dynasty is not as great as the impact of a great coach. The coach has to keep ahead of defenses, keep ahead of personel poachers, keep ahead of scouts in an effort to give his QB any chance of succeeding.

You don't think a quarterback like Tom Brady is part of the gameplanning, and coaching ??

I've coached quarterbacks that have no clue what's going on and it shows in the teams record, and I've had some that know where everyone should be and what they should be doing. Kids that know what the defense is doing, they recognize the strengths/weaknesses, when/where to attack it and that show's in the team's success.

I don't think you understand the difference between a quarterback and a great quarterback and the difference in the effect they have on their team.


You have coached high shool. I am assuming. Not sure though. I'm sorry, but your experience with head coaching does not make you an authority on the matter we are discussing. Heac coaching a dynasty in the NFL. So you can stop interjecting your experiences. Your experience puts you one step above my experience as a Madden player on this subject.

A great coach created the Packers dynasty. A great coach created the Browns dynasty. A great coach created the Niners dynasty. The Colts dynasty. The Steelers dynasty. The Cowboys dynasty. And a great coach created the Pats dynasty.

Does having a great QB help win games? Of course it does. But you need a lot more to stay relevant year after year and win championships year after year. You need the right coach steering the ship.

That isnt taking a thing away from Brady unless you are the type that honestly believes the QB is more important to the building and maintaining of a dynasty than a coach.

Yes...but Bart Starr, Otto Graham, Joe Montana/Steve Young, Johnny Unitas, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman, and Tom Brady maintained them and without their execution...there is no dynasty. Coaches/GMs are the architects....quarterbacks are the foreman of the construction crew. They don't just simply "execute", they're in on the planning and they make changes/decisions when they see fit.

If you think that actually coaching and playing Madden are "one in the same"....



Yes, because Aikman, Bradshaw and Starr were just beasts.

And if you think coaching a dysnasty in the NFL and coaching Pop Warner at the park are "one in the same"


Can you wrap your mind around this ??

I never said that coaching a dynasty and coaching varsity football, playing college football were the same.....its about understanding the effect a quarterback's play has on the game and the success of a team.

Continue mocking it though.....there's more evidence supporting my stance than yours.


Can you wrap your head around this?

I never said playing Madden and coaching high school football were "one in the same." In fact, I clearly stated it wasnt. It's about giving due credit to "the architect" for building and maintaining a dynasty, creating plays and gameplans, adjusting those plays and gameplans as personel changes, finding players that are good fits, coaching them up, teaching them, grooming them to contribute, etc etc. ON EVERY SIDE OF THE BALL.

You have zero evidence that the QB is more important than the HC in the building and maintaining of a dynasty. If thats what you are saying.
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Last edited by J Pep 4 Step on Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
To be clear, was Bart Starr more important than Vince Lombardi in the building and maintenance of the Packers dynasty?

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FirstDownFaulk


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
You have zero evidence that the QB is more important than the HC in the building and maintaining of a dynasty. If thats what you are saying.

Find me something that shows that every "mistake" a head coach makes in the playoffs, it decreases his teams chance of winning by 25%.....
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jrry32 wrote:
Tom Brady hasn't left NE and proven himself not to be a system QB...so he is one.

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FirstDownFaulk


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Posts: 5077
Location: New York
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
To be clear, was Bart Starr more important than Vince Lombardi in the building and maintenance of the Packers dynasty?

His 5:1 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is the primary reason they're even a dynasty. Without his ability to protect the football and distribute it promptly and accurately, they don't win championships.
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jrry32 wrote:
Tom Brady hasn't left NE and proven himself not to be a system QB...so he is one.

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x0x


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
There have been many great QBs that have never been part of a DYNASTY. Why? Because it takes the right person making the right decisions to maintain a dynasty. It isnt a matter of, "Oh, well we have a great QB. Were set."

You are overplaying the impact of a QB on a sustained dynasty in the modern NFL with rotating rosters and changing rules. It's the coach that keeps it all together. Not the QB. The QB is responsible for executing. The coach is responsible for everything else.

You're downplaying execution. That's what keeps the ball out of a defender's hands, that's what keeps the chains moving, and that's what puts points on the board.

You can tell a guy to do something until you're blue in the face, but he needs to execute it in order to be successful. It's the most crucial aspect of football.



I see what you're saying, but I must respectfully disagree. And we are surely blessed to have a college oc on here to give us experience input, but you are just one man out of numerous programs in your country.

You can mold most players. Guys who are good enough to make a football team at the collegiate level have at least a basic level of understand and physical talent.

It is up to the coaching staff to then mold them.


I can't tell you how many times I've heard a coach say " well, he's got a low ceiling, he'll never be great " and they are proven wrong.

Is that bad evaluation or simply stubborn opinion?
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
To be clear, was Bart Starr more important than Vince Lombardi in the building and maintenance of the Packers dynasty?

His 5:1 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is the primary reason they're even a dynasty. Without his ability to protect the football and distribute it promptly and accurately, they don't win championships.


So, was that a yes?
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
You have zero evidence that the QB is more important than the HC in the building and maintaining of a dynasty. If thats what you are saying.

Find me something that shows that every "mistake" a head coach makes in the playoffs, it decreases his teams chance of winning by 25%.....


They dont keep stats on how much a poor draft pick, or a poor game plan, or a poor play called, or a poor FA signing, or poor coaching effects a teams chances of winning.
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Last edited by J Pep 4 Step on Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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FirstDownFaulk


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
To be clear, was Bart Starr more important than Vince Lombardi in the building and maintenance of the Packers dynasty?

His 5:1 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is the primary reason they're even a dynasty. Without his ability to protect the football and distribute it promptly and accurately, they don't win championships.


So, was that a yes?

Absolutely. Dynasties are defined by execution.
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jrry32 wrote:
Tom Brady hasn't left NE and proven himself not to be a system QB...so he is one.

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