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J Pep 4 Step
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25248
Location: Greenvillain, NC
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 Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | To be clear, was Bart Starr more important than Vince Lombardi in the building and maintenance of the Packers dynasty? |
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His 5:1 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is the primary reason they're even a dynasty. Without his ability to protect the football and distribute it promptly and accurately, they don't win championships. |
So, was that a yes? |
Absolutely. Dynasties are defined by execution. |
Fair enough. 
Bart Starr was more important to the building and maintenance of the Packers dynasty than Vince Lombardi. <shrug>
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| jrry32 wrote: | | Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble. |
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | You have zero evidence that the QB is more important than the HC in the building and maintaining of a dynasty. If thats what you are saying. |
Find me something that shows that every "mistake" a head coach makes in the playoffs, it decreases his teams chance of winning by 25%..... |
They dont keep stats on how much a poor draft pick, or a poor game plan, or a poor FA signing, or poor coaching effects a teams chances of winning. |
Exactly....that's because execution, or lack thereof, is all that ultimately matters and what people remember.
But how often recently have the Patriots had poor draft picks and poor FA signings, yet they continue winning and having success....
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Stevan Ridley, Att: 225, Yds: 1010, Y/A: 4.0, TD:9
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | To be clear, was Bart Starr more important than Vince Lombardi in the building and maintenance of the Packers dynasty? |
|
His 5:1 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is the primary reason they're even a dynasty. Without his ability to protect the football and distribute it promptly and accurately, they don't win championships. |
So, was that a yes? |
Absolutely. Dynasties are defined by execution. |
Fair enough.
Bart Starr was more important to the building and maintenance of the Packers dynasty than Vince Lombardi. <shrug> |
Take a look at the Buffalo Bills....had the potential to be the most dominant dynasty of them all. Absolutely stacked everywhere on the field....how come they didn't win four Super Bowls in a row ??
2 touchdowns and 7 interceptions is why.....
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Stevan Ridley, Att: 225, Yds: 1010, Y/A: 4.0, TD:9
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J Pep 4 Step
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25248
Location: Greenvillain, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | You have zero evidence that the QB is more important than the HC in the building and maintaining of a dynasty. If thats what you are saying. |
Find me something that shows that every "mistake" a head coach makes in the playoffs, it decreases his teams chance of winning by 25%..... |
They dont keep stats on how much a poor draft pick, or a poor game plan, or a poor FA signing, or poor coaching effects a teams chances of winning. |
Exactly....that's because execution, or lack thereof, is all that ultimately matters and what people remember.
But how often recently have the Patriots had poor draft picks and poor FA signings, yet they continue winning and having success.... |
But theyve never won a game with Brady throwing a pick, right???
No, it isnt because "execution is what matters." It's because you cant quantify what I am talking about. Because keeping a stat like that would be impossible.
Seriously, I am all ears. How would you keep stats like those I mentioned?
I mean, couldnt you conclude, based on the lack of stats and the same silly conclusion drawn by that fact, that draft picks dont matter at all? Free agent signings dont matter at all? Game plans dont matter at all? At some point common sense has to play a part in this.
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| jrry32 wrote: | | Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble. |
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x0x
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 13903
Location: Oh Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: |
Take a look at the Buffalo Bills....had the potential to be the most dominant dynasty of them all. Absolutely stacked everywhere on the field....how come they didn't win four Super Bowls in a row ??
2 touchdowns and 7 interceptions is why..... |
Just had to respond to this specifically.
You can put some of the blame on Kelly but certainly not all. Not to mention he didn't play the whole game against the first Cowboys meeting.
Thurman Thomas fumbled the ball in XXVIII that ultimately turned that game to the Cowboys. Thurman Thomas also failed to convert a crucial short 3rd down as well.
And of course Scott Norwood.
So yeah, not happening. Not to mention the fact the 1991 Redskins were a disgusting overmatch against that Bills team.
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| x0x wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: |
Take a look at the Buffalo Bills....had the potential to be the most dominant dynasty of them all. Absolutely stacked everywhere on the field....how come they didn't win four Super Bowls in a row ??
2 touchdowns and 7 interceptions is why..... |
Just had to respond to this specifically.
You can put some of the blame on Kelly but certainly not all. Not to mention he didn't play the whole game against the first Cowboys meeting.
Thurman Thomas fumbled the ball in XXVIII that ultimately turned that game to the Cowboys. Thurman Thomas also failed to convert a crucial short 3rd down as well.
And of course Scott Norwood.
So yeah, not happening. Not to mention the fact the 1991 Redskins were a disgusting overmatch against that Bills team. |
The '01 Rams were a disgusting overmatch against that Patriots team, whats your point ??
Bill Polian and Marv Levy built a great organization and gave them every chance to succeed.....Jim Kelly just didn't execute well and it cost Polian his job. It was the dynasty that never was.
_________________
Stevan Ridley, Att: 225, Yds: 1010, Y/A: 4.0, TD:9
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J Pep 4 Step
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25248
Location: Greenvillain, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | To be clear, was Bart Starr more important than Vince Lombardi in the building and maintenance of the Packers dynasty? |
|
His 5:1 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is the primary reason they're even a dynasty. Without his ability to protect the football and distribute it promptly and accurately, they don't win championships. |
So, was that a yes? |
Absolutely. Dynasties are defined by execution. |
Fair enough.
Bart Starr was more important to the building and maintenance of the Packers dynasty than Vince Lombardi. <shrug> |
Take a look at the Buffalo Bills....had the potential to be the most dominant dynasty of them all. Absolutely stacked everywhere on the field....how come they didn't win four Super Bowls in a row ??
2 touchdowns and 7 interceptions is why..... |
Yes, because missed kicks and the utter destruction of their defense had nothing to do with it, right?
All about the QB.
_________________
| jrry32 wrote: | | Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble. |
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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You could have 21 first team All-Pros surrounding a quarterback, yet the team will only go as far as his level of execution (or lack of execution) allows the team to go in January.
Just as I type this...we're watching Matt Ryan throw and fumble his teams' chance away....
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Stevan Ridley, Att: 225, Yds: 1010, Y/A: 4.0, TD:9
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J Pep 4 Step
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25248
Location: Greenvillain, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | x0x wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: |
Take a look at the Buffalo Bills....had the potential to be the most dominant dynasty of them all. Absolutely stacked everywhere on the field....how come they didn't win four Super Bowls in a row ??
2 touchdowns and 7 interceptions is why..... |
Just had to respond to this specifically.
You can put some of the blame on Kelly but certainly not all. Not to mention he didn't play the whole game against the first Cowboys meeting.
Thurman Thomas fumbled the ball in XXVIII that ultimately turned that game to the Cowboys. Thurman Thomas also failed to convert a crucial short 3rd down as well.
And of course Scott Norwood.
So yeah, not happening. Not to mention the fact the 1991 Redskins were a disgusting overmatch against that Bills team. |
The '01 Rams were a disgusting overmatch against that Patriots team, whats your point ??
Bill Polian and Marv Levy built a great organization and gave them every chance to succeed.....Jim Kelly just didn't execute well and it cost Polian his job. It was the dynasty that never was. |
That it took the defense holding the GSOT to 16 points to win the SB?
And again, you are ignoring the other clear meltdowns on those Bills teams while you try to lay it all on the QB.
_________________
| jrry32 wrote: | | Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble. |
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | x0x wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: |
Take a look at the Buffalo Bills....had the potential to be the most dominant dynasty of them all. Absolutely stacked everywhere on the field....how come they didn't win four Super Bowls in a row ??
2 touchdowns and 7 interceptions is why..... |
Just had to respond to this specifically.
You can put some of the blame on Kelly but certainly not all. Not to mention he didn't play the whole game against the first Cowboys meeting.
Thurman Thomas fumbled the ball in XXVIII that ultimately turned that game to the Cowboys. Thurman Thomas also failed to convert a crucial short 3rd down as well.
And of course Scott Norwood.
So yeah, not happening. Not to mention the fact the 1991 Redskins were a disgusting overmatch against that Bills team. |
The '01 Rams were a disgusting overmatch against that Patriots team, whats your point ??
Bill Polian and Marv Levy built a great organization and gave them every chance to succeed.....Jim Kelly just didn't execute well and it cost Polian his job. It was the dynasty that never was. |
That it took the defense holding the GSOT to 16 points to win the SB?
And again, you are ignoring the other clear meltdowns on those Bills teams while you try to lay it all on the QB. |
Who's "ignoring" them ??
I'm simply saying that completing 81 of 145 passes (56%) and throwing only 2 touchdowns and 7 interceptions is not quality execution, and is the primary reason why they're 0-4 in those games.
_________________
Stevan Ridley, Att: 225, Yds: 1010, Y/A: 4.0, TD:9
Last edited by FirstDownFaulk on Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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J Pep 4 Step
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25248
Location: Greenvillain, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: | You could have 21 first team All-Pros surrounding a quarterback, yet the team will only go as far as his level of execution (or lack of execution) allows the team to go in January.
Just as I type this...we're watching Matt Ryan throw and fumble his teams' chance away.... |
Peyton Manning 2006?
_________________
| jrry32 wrote: | | Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble. |
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | You could have 21 first team All-Pros surrounding a quarterback, yet the team will only go as far as his level of execution (or lack of execution) allows the team to go in January.
Just as I type this...we're watching Matt Ryan throw and fumble his teams' chance away.... |
Peyton Manning 2006? |
You can attempt to pass off the exception as the rule....but it only makes you look foolish
Trent Dilfer next ??
_________________
Stevan Ridley, Att: 225, Yds: 1010, Y/A: 4.0, TD:9
Last edited by FirstDownFaulk on Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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J Pep 4 Step
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25248
Location: Greenvillain, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | x0x wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: |
Take a look at the Buffalo Bills....had the potential to be the most dominant dynasty of them all. Absolutely stacked everywhere on the field....how come they didn't win four Super Bowls in a row ??
2 touchdowns and 7 interceptions is why..... |
Just had to respond to this specifically.
You can put some of the blame on Kelly but certainly not all. Not to mention he didn't play the whole game against the first Cowboys meeting.
Thurman Thomas fumbled the ball in XXVIII that ultimately turned that game to the Cowboys. Thurman Thomas also failed to convert a crucial short 3rd down as well.
And of course Scott Norwood.
So yeah, not happening. Not to mention the fact the 1991 Redskins were a disgusting overmatch against that Bills team. |
The '01 Rams were a disgusting overmatch against that Patriots team, whats your point ??
Bill Polian and Marv Levy built a great organization and gave them every chance to succeed.....Jim Kelly just didn't execute well and it cost Polian his job. It was the dynasty that never was. |
That it took the defense holding the GSOT to 16 points to win the SB?
And again, you are ignoring the other clear meltdowns on those Bills teams while you try to lay it all on the QB. |
Who's "ignoring" them ??
I'm simply saying that completing 81 of 145 passes (56%) and throwing only 2 touchdowns and 7 interceptions is not quality execution, and is the primary reason why they're 0-4 in those games. |
And I am saying no it wasnt. Missed FGs and defensive meltdowns were the primary reason they are 0-4 in those games.
_________________
| jrry32 wrote: | | Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble. |
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J Pep 4 Step
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25248
Location: Greenvillain, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | You could have 21 first team All-Pros surrounding a quarterback, yet the team will only go as far as his level of execution (or lack of execution) allows the team to go in January.
Just as I type this...we're watching Matt Ryan throw and fumble his teams' chance away.... |
Peyton Manning 2006? |
You can attempt to pass off the exception as the rule....but it only makes you look foolish |
I suppose if I was actually trying to "pass off the exception as the rule" you would have a point.
_________________
| jrry32 wrote: | | Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble. |
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | J Pep 4 Step wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | You could have 21 first team All-Pros surrounding a quarterback, yet the team will only go as far as his level of execution (or lack of execution) allows the team to go in January.
Just as I type this...we're watching Matt Ryan throw and fumble his teams' chance away.... |
Peyton Manning 2006? |
You can attempt to pass off the exception as the rule....but it only makes you look foolish |
I suppose if I was actually trying to "pass off the exception as the rule" you would have a point. |
Peyton Manning is a great example though. He lights it up during the regular season, his team dominates...then he disappears in the playoffs and they're all golfing by MLK day.
_________________
Stevan Ridley, Att: 225, Yds: 1010, Y/A: 4.0, TD:9
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