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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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 Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| JTagg7754 wrote: | | Top 2, top 5... not much of a difference. |
its funny how you say qbs arent responsible for wins and losses but you say tp is guaranteed to give us a top 5 draft pick.
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7255
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | Top 2, top 5... not much of a difference. |
its funny how you say qbs arent responsible for wins and losses but you say tp is guaranteed to give us a top 5 draft pick. |
No Dr Coughman, please pay attention. I have said and always will say they are not the SOLE reason for wins and losses. There is a massive difference there and that is a key word. They are a big part of the outcome but to simply say "we only get 3 wins w/ Palmer, he sux" is just wrong. Pryor on the other hand, would cost us many games over the course of a season due to being extremely ineffective most of the game much like we saw against SD. This is a game where no one had film on him and now they will. That only gives them more of an advantage.
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7255
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| RunDmc23 wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | RunDmc23 wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | Top 2, top 5... not much of a difference. |
Its a big difference for teams looking for there future signal caller, some teams might already have there QB of the future and still picking in the top 5 while others like us are still trying to find it |
We have a guy who can win games if the team would give him some help. Who knows how long he could play for also. Again, this was Palmer's lowest ATT:INT ratio in his entire career this season. |
The dude is getting old he is at the end of his road, our team has too many holes to fill for him to succeed and win the superbowl let alone our own division I would trade him in a heart beat build for 4 years through the draft and by the time peyton is done it would be silver and black time for the next ten seasons hopefully a couple superbowls too  but hey thats just me im not the gm or anything |
Our QB you're speaking of isn't on our roster now. We'll get him hopefully next year unless Palmer stays on the team, gets the help from the supporting cast he needs, and produces to the extent he can. He could surprise us. I highly doubt it but I do know he has the ability to still perform at a decent level. Something I don't think Pryor and his dead duck rainbows, does not.
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12594
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| JTagg7754 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | Top 2, top 5... not much of a difference. |
its funny how you say qbs arent responsible for wins and losses but you say tp is guaranteed to give us a top 5 draft pick. |
No Dr Coughman, please pay attention. I have said and always will say they are not the SOLE reason for wins and losses. There is a massive difference there and that is a key word. They are a big part of the outcome but to simply say "we only get 3 wins w/ Palmer, he sux" is just wrong. Pryor on the other hand, would cost us many games over the course of a season due to being extremely ineffective most of the game much like we saw against SD. This is a game where no one had film on him and now they will. That only gives them more of an advantage. |
i never said they were the sole reason but they are the biggest determining factor on the field and are judged by their win loss record esp in the playoffs.
lol and cp didnt cost us games by being ineffective last year? really? 
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7255
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | Top 2, top 5... not much of a difference. |
its funny how you say qbs arent responsible for wins and losses but you say tp is guaranteed to give us a top 5 draft pick. |
No Dr Coughman, please pay attention. I have said and always will say they are not the SOLE reason for wins and losses. There is a massive difference there and that is a key word. They are a big part of the outcome but to simply say "we only get 3 wins w/ Palmer, he sux" is just wrong. Pryor on the other hand, would cost us many games over the course of a season due to being extremely ineffective most of the game much like we saw against SD. This is a game where no one had film on him and now they will. That only gives them more of an advantage. |
i never said they were the sole reason but they are the biggest determining factor on the field and are judged by their win loss record esp in the playoffs.
lol and cp didnt cost us games by being ineffective last year? really? |
No he didn't as much as Pryor would. When you're working w/ one of the worst defenses in the league also, you have the tendency to lose games. Think about it.... not only that, when you're down that much, you have to throw the ball more which leads to more INTs..... except Carson had his lowest ATT:INT ratio (WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY more important than TD:INT ratio that you snuggle w/ every night) in a very long time.... since 2005!!!
I can't even begin to debate w/ you though, you still support Russell and think he's a good QB. For that reason, no one should ever take your assessment of QBs seriously. You like a guy, you hang on to him forever and everyone else sucks, except him. Pryor isn't close to being on Carson's level, get ovah it!!
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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RunDmc23
Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Pryor will come in to next season a little more groomed not to much but somewhat. He wouldnt win us a ton of games but i think he would net us a top 5 pick. Palmer would net us a top 5 too with this defense. Palmer is gaining like 20 pounds because of that rib shot. look for a 240 palmer start of the season lol jk #Bridgewater 2014 if Tp doesn't improve next year. |
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Burgesskills
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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its funny how you say qbs arent responsible for wins and losses but you say tp is guaranteed to give us a top 5 draft pick. |
Great point. There are certain posters on here that I don't even bother making points to them. He will twist words, waffle on points, and do whatever he could to shift blame from CP, but in the same breather say Pryor will be responsible with getting us to pick top 5, yet we picked top 3 with Palmer, but it wasn't his fault...
Lowest int rate per attempt? Talk about drops by WR's, how many ints were dropped? How many attempts did he short hop or miss targets? He dumped a lot short passes off all year. Look, there is no arguing that he was efficient when it comes to completions/yards, but he didn't put a lot of points up and the timing of his turnovers fumbles/ints were crucial and hurts us badly in a lot of situations. |
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Burgesskills
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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And it is easy to speculate or guess what Pryor may do, but we've seen what Palmer could do. A three win season, a lot of mistakes, and not a lot of points....there are excuses you could make, no running game, his targets were poor, and or defense sucked, but we've all seen one game with Pryor and while his passes weren't crisp, his footwork was poor, and threw up some ducks, he did put 21 points on the board. Two TD passes (one being a perfect back shoulder pass) and nice run. He did all this with the same poor running game, the same awful targets (who still dropped passes) and the same defense CP played with all year.
Not to mention, the huge disparity between salaries. |
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4580
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Burgesskills wrote: | And it is easy to speculate or guess what Pryor may do, but we've seen what Palmer could do. A three win season, a lot of mistakes, and not a lot of points....there are excuses you could make, no running game, his targets were poor, and or defense sucked, but we've all seen one game with Pryor and while his passes weren't crisp, his footwork was poor, and threw up some ducks, he did put 21 points on the board. Two TD passes (one being a perfect back shoulder pass) and nice run. He did all this with the same poor running game, the same awful targets (who still dropped passes) and the same defense CP played with all year.
Not to mention, the huge disparity between salaries. |
Just wondering, do you think 1 game by Pryor is enough of a sample size? The bolded part above is exactly why I ask this. I'm cant rest on those 3 TDs because you dont see QBs who have bad footwork, lobby passes, and accuracy problems put up points on a weekly basis. Heck, you dont even see QBs like that starting in the NFL. We have no idea if that game was a fluke or not. SD's defense isnt bad, but they arent good, either. Perhaps more importantly is the fact that they had just 1-2 days to gameplan for Pryor, who warrants a much different plan than Leinart would have.
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| La_Vader wrote: | | I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that |
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7255
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Burgesskills wrote: | And it is easy to speculate or guess what Pryor may do, but we've seen what Palmer could do. A three win season, a lot of mistakes, and not a lot of points....there are excuses you could make, no running game, his targets were poor, and or defense sucked, but we've all seen one game with Pryor and while his passes weren't crisp, his footwork was poor, and threw up some ducks, he did put 21 points on the board. Two TD passes (one being a perfect back shoulder pass) and nice run. He did all this with the same poor running game, the same awful targets (who still dropped passes) and the same defense CP played with all year.
Not to mention, the huge disparity between salaries. |
Just wondering, do you think 1 game by Pryor is enough of a sample size? The bolded part above is exactly why I ask this. I'm cant rest on those 3 TDs because you dont see QBs who have bad footwork, lobby passes, and accuracy problems put up points on a weekly basis. Heck, you dont even see QBs like that starting in the NFL. We have no idea if that game was a fluke or not. SD's defense isnt bad, but they arent good, either. Perhaps more importantly is the fact that they had just 1-2 days to gameplan for Pryor, who warrants a much different plan than Leinart would have. |
LOL I don't know why you even bothered using those keystrokes haha.
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12594
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Burgesskills wrote: | And it is easy to speculate or guess what Pryor may do, but we've seen what Palmer could do. A three win season, a lot of mistakes, and not a lot of points....there are excuses you could make, no running game, his targets were poor, and or defense sucked, but we've all seen one game with Pryor and while his passes weren't crisp, his footwork was poor, and threw up some ducks, he did put 21 points on the board. Two TD passes (one being a perfect back shoulder pass) and nice run. He did all this with the same poor running game, the same awful targets (who still dropped passes) and the same defense CP played with all year.
Not to mention, the huge disparity between salaries. |
Just wondering, do you think 1 game by Pryor is enough of a sample size? The bolded part above is exactly why I ask this. I'm cant rest on those 3 TDs because you dont see QBs who have bad footwork, lobby passes, and accuracy problems put up points on a weekly basis. Heck, you dont even see QBs like that starting in the NFL. We have no idea if that game was a fluke or not. SD's defense isnt bad, but they arent good, either. Perhaps more importantly is the fact that they had just 1-2 days to gameplan for Pryor, who warrants a much different plan than Leinart would have. |
the bold is very true. on the flip side we know exactly what cp can do from the last two years.......
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7255
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Burgesskills wrote: | And it is easy to speculate or guess what Pryor may do, but we've seen what Palmer could do. A three win season, a lot of mistakes, and not a lot of points....there are excuses you could make, no running game, his targets were poor, and or defense sucked, but we've all seen one game with Pryor and while his passes weren't crisp, his footwork was poor, and threw up some ducks, he did put 21 points on the board. Two TD passes (one being a perfect back shoulder pass) and nice run. He did all this with the same poor running game, the same awful targets (who still dropped passes) and the same defense CP played with all year.
Not to mention, the huge disparity between salaries. |
Just wondering, do you think 1 game by Pryor is enough of a sample size? The bolded part above is exactly why I ask this. I'm cant rest on those 3 TDs because you dont see QBs who have bad footwork, lobby passes, and accuracy problems put up points on a weekly basis. Heck, you dont even see QBs like that starting in the NFL. We have no idea if that game was a fluke or not. SD's defense isnt bad, but they arent good, either. Perhaps more importantly is the fact that they had just 1-2 days to gameplan for Pryor, who warrants a much different plan than Leinart would have. |
the bold is very true. on the flip side we know exactly what cp can do from the last two years....... |
Yep, improve.
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12594
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| JTagg7754 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Burgesskills wrote: | And it is easy to speculate or guess what Pryor may do, but we've seen what Palmer could do. A three win season, a lot of mistakes, and not a lot of points....there are excuses you could make, no running game, his targets were poor, and or defense sucked, but we've all seen one game with Pryor and while his passes weren't crisp, his footwork was poor, and threw up some ducks, he did put 21 points on the board. Two TD passes (one being a perfect back shoulder pass) and nice run. He did all this with the same poor running game, the same awful targets (who still dropped passes) and the same defense CP played with all year.
Not to mention, the huge disparity between salaries. |
Just wondering, do you think 1 game by Pryor is enough of a sample size? The bolded part above is exactly why I ask this. I'm cant rest on those 3 TDs because you dont see QBs who have bad footwork, lobby passes, and accuracy problems put up points on a weekly basis. Heck, you dont even see QBs like that starting in the NFL. We have no idea if that game was a fluke or not. SD's defense isnt bad, but they arent good, either. Perhaps more importantly is the fact that they had just 1-2 days to gameplan for Pryor, who warrants a much different plan than Leinart would have. |
the bold is very true. on the flip side we know exactly what cp can do from the last two years....... |
Yep, improve. |
so by the time he is 40 he will be the best qb in the nfl right
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7255
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Burgesskills wrote: | And it is easy to speculate or guess what Pryor may do, but we've seen what Palmer could do. A three win season, a lot of mistakes, and not a lot of points....there are excuses you could make, no running game, his targets were poor, and or defense sucked, but we've all seen one game with Pryor and while his passes weren't crisp, his footwork was poor, and threw up some ducks, he did put 21 points on the board. Two TD passes (one being a perfect back shoulder pass) and nice run. He did all this with the same poor running game, the same awful targets (who still dropped passes) and the same defense CP played with all year.
Not to mention, the huge disparity between salaries. |
Just wondering, do you think 1 game by Pryor is enough of a sample size? The bolded part above is exactly why I ask this. I'm cant rest on those 3 TDs because you dont see QBs who have bad footwork, lobby passes, and accuracy problems put up points on a weekly basis. Heck, you dont even see QBs like that starting in the NFL. We have no idea if that game was a fluke or not. SD's defense isnt bad, but they arent good, either. Perhaps more importantly is the fact that they had just 1-2 days to gameplan for Pryor, who warrants a much different plan than Leinart would have. |
the bold is very true. on the flip side we know exactly what cp can do from the last two years....... |
Yep, improve. |
so by the time he is 40 he will be the best qb in the nfl right
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Nope, I was never getting there. What I see, and mind you I am realistic here (try it out), is a QB who came off his couch and performed meh last season on a brand new team w/ brand new teammates and then, after an off-season of working w/ all them, improved greatly. This combined w/ a complete overhaul of an organization from top to bottom. I am willing to see what another off-season will bring b/c I bet he can improve upon that. I don't think you're willing to do the same b/c he doesn't scramble and you have an unconditioned hatred for the guy and it is heavily clouding your judgment that you'd rather have some weak armed, flutter ball, dead duck throwing dude out there b/c he can run around. Silly talk.
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12594
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| JTagg7754 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Burgesskills wrote: | And it is easy to speculate or guess what Pryor may do, but we've seen what Palmer could do. A three win season, a lot of mistakes, and not a lot of points....there are excuses you could make, no running game, his targets were poor, and or defense sucked, but we've all seen one game with Pryor and while his passes weren't crisp, his footwork was poor, and threw up some ducks, he did put 21 points on the board. Two TD passes (one being a perfect back shoulder pass) and nice run. He did all this with the same poor running game, the same awful targets (who still dropped passes) and the same defense CP played with all year.
Not to mention, the huge disparity between salaries. |
Just wondering, do you think 1 game by Pryor is enough of a sample size? The bolded part above is exactly why I ask this. I'm cant rest on those 3 TDs because you dont see QBs who have bad footwork, lobby passes, and accuracy problems put up points on a weekly basis. Heck, you dont even see QBs like that starting in the NFL. We have no idea if that game was a fluke or not. SD's defense isnt bad, but they arent good, either. Perhaps more importantly is the fact that they had just 1-2 days to gameplan for Pryor, who warrants a much different plan than Leinart would have. |
the bold is very true. on the flip side we know exactly what cp can do from the last two years....... |
Yep, improve. |
so by the time he is 40 he will be the best qb in the nfl right
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Nope, I was never getting there. What I see, and mind you I am realistic here (try it out), is a QB who came off his couch and performed meh last season on a brand new team w/ brand new teammates and then, after an off-season of working w/ all them, improved greatly. This combined w/ a complete overhaul of an organization from top to bottom. I am willing to see what another off-season will bring b/c I bet he can improve upon that. I don't think you're willing to do the same b/c he doesn't scramble and you have an unconditioned hatred for the guy and it is heavily clouding your judgment that you'd rather have some weak armed, flutter ball, dead duck throwing dude out there b/c he can run around and score tds. Silly talk. |
fify.
alright ill try putting my realistic glasses on.
what i see in cp is a aging vet qb who cant scramble playing behind a patchwork o-line that eventually got him killed and will get him killed again. that qb is also taking a huge chunk of our salary cap which prevents us from upgrading positions to help the team. i also see that the qb hasnt effected our win-loss record or offensive production and the losses keep stacking up. i also see a qb who wants to go out as a winner and i dont think that we are playoff bound for at least 3 years and by that time cp will be out of the nfl or costing us 15mill a year.
then a see tp who is a young dynamic qb with flaws but is like a sponge and willing to learn and train to perfect his craft. that young qb would greatly benefit from receiving more reps in practice and in game situations. this young qb is agile enough to escape pressure from our patchwork o-line and turn nothing in to something and extend drives and plays giving the team a better chance to succeed. i dont think we will be playoff material for at least 3 yrs and by dumping cp's salary we can go after more f.a.'s to improve the team and build through the draft. if tp doesnt work out fine. by 2014 hopefully our team will be better and we can properly groom a new qb.
basically its the aso soon to be shane situation all over again. high priced player great with the team/community, but doesnt translate into wins for a rebuilding team. so we trade/cut said player to relieve them of their misery and allow them to continue chasing their dreams of being winners.
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