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What If Chip Kelly Makes The QB Position Expendable?
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 8771
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobikus wrote:
BBIB wrote:

And as far as an elite QB, the whole point is you don't need an elite pocket thrower in the NFL anymore if there is continued success with the pistol offense and other creative formations and playcalling for dual threat QBs


No, you'll just need elite dual-threat QBs instead, trading one desired type of elite player for another.


But the word "elite" signifies something rare like only 3-5 guys tops in the league possess

The thing about the dual threat element is the talent pool is significantly larger because of the different skill set required

In the traditional form, the ONLY aspect that mattered was the QB's arm and anticipation of coverage and only a select few guys could master that craft

The field of guys who can be effective as dual threats will be 2-4x as large
as those who can be elite pocket passers. If there are only 4-5 elite pocket QBs, there will be a dozen or more guys who can effectively run spread option
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Bobikus


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And there's plenty of non elite but effective pocket passers that lead capable teams too. Once defenses adjust to the presence of these newer offenses though, those 2-4 players who are elite at being mobile QBs are going to rise to the top in the same way that elite pocket passers did in the past, and even those mobile QBs will have to start developing high-caliber pocket passing ability too.
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobikus wrote:
And there's plenty of non elite but effective pocket passers that lead capable teams too. Once defenses adjust to the presence of these newer offenses though, those 2-4 players who are elite at being mobile QBs are going to rise to the top in the same way that elite pocket passers did in the past, and even those mobile QBs will have to start developing high-caliber pocket passing ability too.


But that's why the nightmare can get even worse for those who take pride in the QB having all the glory

Not only could the style of QB change but the MAIN REASON why teams win could change or be highlighted even more

It could put the emphasis on defense even more than ever before. So an average to above average dual threat QB may have significant advantage over an elite dual threat QB if that elite dual threat QB has an inferior defense that makes the average to above average dual threat guy look just as good or better by comparison.

But the media would certainly try to keep the myth alive of only elite players winning championships

Somehow some way they would have to
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powderblues


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just crown Kelly already, you guys treat him like the GOAT coach before we've even seen his training camps.
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

powderblues wrote:
Just crown Kelly already, you guys treat him like the GOAT coach before we've even seen his training camps.


I'm not crowning him yet. It's just about encouraging debate on what could be a monumental shift in the future of offensive philosophy in the NFL

It all starts with the depth chart he builds at the QB position for the upcoming season

And soon after the Super Bowl we'll have a pretty good idea how that goes
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hornbybrown


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is still going Laughing
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:

The field of guys who can be effective as dual threats will be 2-4x as large
as those who can be elite pocket passers. If there are only 4-5 elite pocket QBs, there will be a dozen or more guys who can effectively run spread option


That implies that running the read option spread is easier to do in the NFL than running the traditional offense. If that's the case, why hasn't it been done? And if the skills required are less, wont it eventually prove easier to stop?

Plenty of QB's have come and gone who had speed, the success in the guys who have run it this year has been their ability to be effective, as you say, as "dual threats" because they can legitimately beat an opposing team using the skills you describe as necessary for pocket passers as well as throwing.

Doesn't that mean the talent pool would be smaller?
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skatebeanz


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
BBIB wrote:

The field of guys who can be effective as dual threats will be 2-4x as large
as those who can be elite pocket passers. If there are only 4-5 elite pocket QBs, there will be a dozen or more guys who can effectively run spread option


That implies that running the read option spread is easier to do in the NFL than running the traditional offense. If that's the case, why hasn't it been done? And if the skills required are less, wont it eventually prove easier to stop?

Plenty of QB's have come and gone who had speed, the success in the guys who have run it this year has been their ability to be effective, as you say, as "dual threats" because they can legitimately beat an opposing team using the skills you describe as necessary for pocket passers as well as throwing.

Doesn't that mean the talent pool would be smaller?
It hasn't been done because people have been scared to try it. I read an article a while back that said exactly that. Just because it could be easier doesn't make it easier to stop. With traditional passers you have to out talent the other team. That is why Akili Smith is out of the league and Tom Brady has made it to nearly half the SBs since he started. It easier because it is smarter.
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:

That implies that running the read option spread is easier to do in the NFL than running the traditional offense. If that's the case, why hasn't it been done? And if the skills required are less, wont it eventually prove easier to stop?

Plenty of QB's have come and gone who had speed, the success in the guys who have run it this year has been their ability to be effective, as you say, as "dual threats" because they can legitimately beat an opposing team using the skills you describe as necessary for pocket passers as well as throwing.

Doesn't that mean the talent pool would be smaller?


The logic of "if it works then why isn't it already employed" is the logic used by so many people in so many facets of life

And using that logic there would be no innovation in ANY aspect of life. No technology upgrades, no new business concepts, nothing.

Because of the mindset of "if this idea worked it would already be implemented" As if every idea in human history has already been explored.

But that's simply not the case. And as mentioned the main reason is no one has even had the guts to even TRY to see if it works because of how risk averse the NFL is at trying new innovations offensively. That's why all innovations come from the college level

The talent pool is actually LARGER because of how few guys meet the requirements of elite 100% drop back passers. The talent pool in the high school and college ranks of guys who are above average runners but average throwers is significantly larger

And the skill set isn't more limited it's just more guys who fit it. It's not more limited because it offers a different set of skills.

The normal drop back passer won't face as many favorable coverages as a guy who is the threat to run in an offense that is a threat to attack the defense on the ground from every angle. So the average passer will have more advantages in the passing game making up for his lack of pure pocket presence of an elite QB which levels the playing field of overall effectiveness
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re-signed MIchael Vick- Check
Signed Dennis Dixon Check

One may doubt whether or not of Chip Kelly can successfully accomplish it, but it sure looks like he is thinking about creating the stable of dual threat QBs in the NFL

So his starter doesn't have to actually even play all 16 games
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rdelaney89


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Re-signed MIchael Vick- Check
Signed Dennis Dixon Check

One may doubt whether or not of Chip Kelly can successfully accomplish it, but it sure looks like he is thinking about creating the stable of dual threat QBs in the NFL

So his starter doesn't have to actually even play all 16 games


I guess you could look at it that way but I think they are looking more at Dixon taking over for Vick in that offense if for some reason Vick can't run it well or he doesn't return after this season.

I'd love to see multiple QB looks work, I like watching a wrench get thrown into normal equations.
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rdelaney89 wrote:
BBIB wrote:
Re-signed MIchael Vick- Check
Signed Dennis Dixon Check

One may doubt whether or not of Chip Kelly can successfully accomplish it, but it sure looks like he is thinking about creating the stable of dual threat QBs in the NFL

So his starter doesn't have to actually even play all 16 games


I guess you could look at it that way but I think they are looking more at Dixon taking over for Vick in that offense if for some reason Vick can't run it well or he doesn't return after this season.

I'd love to see multiple QB looks work, I like watching a wrench get thrown into normal equations.


I think by next year Chip Kelly would draft a QB of the future if he didn't stick with Vick

But I still see him having multiple dual threat QBs regardless on the roster just in case the starter goes down

The only thing that could upset that is if Nick Foles miraculously won the starting job and went on to prolonged success right out the gate for Chip Kelly

But the odds of that, especially considering Foles can't even run the zone read plays which limits the playcalling, are not exactly that high
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Django


Joined: 03 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Would Spurs Title Force Media to Admit Duncan over Kobe?
by _BBIB_ on Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:51 pm


I disagree BBIB, Kobe is still better than Dun....errr..

Oops wrong board Laughing
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if the lowest score wins?

Its never going to happen, EVER
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Yes, I went to high school with Tony Romo


Did he do good on the homework and quizzes but choke on the tests?
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TheGreeK1973


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

remember when our illustrious owner Dan Synder thought Spurrier and his offense was going to take the NFL by storm? How did that work out? Hell he even brought in his Heisman QB from college and we were the laughing stock of football.

Lets see what Mr. Kelly does in the NFL before we go nuts here. Also i hate to say it to people, RGIII, R Wilson, Kapp, are not "normal" talents you can find anywhere. Sorry no way Tebow is anywhere near as productive as the above 3 because the above 3 can also throw the ball. RGIII for example has just about the best fake hand-off I have ever seen in the NFL and has pinpoint accuracy. Russel has the capabilities of Frank Tarkington in escaping the rush and throw a strike on the move. Kapp is fast enough to keep Ds honest and still throws a rocket with considerable accuracy. These guys have talent and will continue to improve in ALL phases of their game while Tebow types will be one trick ponies.

The biggest knock on Vick was he was never an accurate passer. As great as he is with his feet he still throws INTS, fumbles balls, misses wide open receivers. Get a few of these types of plays from your QB during the game, you will lose in the NFL.
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