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Ed Reed vs Randy Moss: Who would you like to see get a ring?
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Who would you rather see get a ring (Regardless of what team you want to win)
Ed Reed
52%
 52%  [ 98 ]
Randy Moss
47%
 47%  [ 89 ]
Total Votes : 187

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texans_uk


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 33914
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
From a pure storyline perspective, this thread would have been much closer if it was say...Ed Reed vs Tony Gonzalez. If that was the case, i'd have chosen Gonzo 100% because of how far he's had to go for even a playoff win. As for this thread, im biased as hell so there's no way i can answer this question objectively.


You are biassed towards Randy Moss because he has caught like 15 passes for the Niners?

Sure you want the Niners to win, but this isn't asking that.
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49ersfan


Joined: 21 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

texans_uk wrote:
You are biassed towards Randy Moss because he has caught like 15 passes for the Niners?

Sure you want the Niners to win, but this isn't asking that.


Its hard to remove yourself from the situation when one of the players is on your team....

If i was going straight up with Moss vs Reed, i honestly wouldn't root towards either player. Unlike with Gonzalez, where i would definitely cheer for him if the Falcons had won yesterday.
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Swift21


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neither. I want to see Justin Smith win a ring badly.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
The only reason I would vote Reed is because he would retire and essentially the Ravens would immediately be vaulted into rebuilding mode.


I hope this is sarcasm. Ed leaving is far from going to make us enter rebuilding mode.


You lose two defensive staples... Haloti Ngata cannot stay healthy... I'm not impressed with your young talent other than Webb(defensively) if this season is any indication. Yeah, I'd say that with the loss of those two the Ravens become an offensive team that needs to be carried by Flacco for the next couple of seasons without stellar drafts.


If by "rebuilding" you mean we need to focus some of our drafts on re-acquiring some more young talent on defense, I can agree.

If you mean "rebuilding" in the sense that it's commonly used (a team taking a step backwards to try to build themselves up for the future) then you're vastly mistaken.

I'd argue, if anything, the loss of guys like Kruger and Cary Williams are going to hurt more than losing Ray and Ed at their point in their careers, particularly Kruger. Ed, in reality, is almost just a liability at this point in his career. He struggles tackling anyone and is too slow for his gambling style to pay off anymore.


Essentially what I was saying - without saying it all - is that you guys are going to lose at least 3 defensive starters if you win this game... Reed and Ray will retire. Kruger is going to walk in Free Agency. I feel that if you win Cary Williams will be able to return due to Reed's retirement but if he leaves too that puts the one guy with the weird name in the Nickel right?

I certainly think you guys still compete but that's more to the fact that the Steelers are on the downswing and the Bengals have the talent but can't seem to put it together consistently.


If Ray/Ed/Kruger/Cary all walk, ignoring FA/draft, our DBs will likely be Webb/Graham/Jimmy/Chykie Brown (just replacing Cary with Webb and its identical to what we have now). I'd guess Ihedigbo would take over at FS which is a concern, but I have trust that we could get a FA safety to play better there, or a drafted guy (or we have Christian Thompson who was a 4th round pick of ours last year that could compete for the job).

Ray leaving just takes us back to McClain/Ellerbe at ILB which is an ok duo. Ellerbe is coming into his own now that he's getting more play time again, but McClain is still just very average. Our depth is what takes the biggest hit with Ray walking.

The pass rush is what I'd be most afraid of. It's already poor, but hopefully Suggs getting back to full strength would be able to offset Kruger's loss a bit. And hopefully Upshaw will be able to develop into more of a pass rush threat as well to complement his already strong run defense.

So really, we're pretty decently prepared for more departures on the defensive side. We certainly will need to focus the draft on some more young talent, as well as pick up some bargain FAs (like we have with Redding, Pollard, Graham, etc), but we certainly won't be entering "rebuilding mode" as it's commonly viewed on these boards. "Retooling"? Sure, but that's on both sides of the ball -- offense due to age (particularly OL) and defense due to departures.
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RavensDefense3


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 2337
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Mossburg wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Reed, by far.

Moss spent too much of his career being a selfish "me" player for me to care whether he wins one.

And I wouldnt mind seeing Lewis come out on top.

Might be blasphemous for me to say that as a Steeler fan, but even if I dont like the Ravens, I really like those two players.


That stuff is overblown. All he cares about is winning. He just handles losing like a child.


Plus can't we say the same about Reed often times leaving assignments for the glorified pick? For every Interception there are 2 or 3 blown coverages for big plays.


A perfect example was one of the few games the Eagles won this year where Reed just went to go make a play on Vick leaving Maclin WIDE OPEN in the end zone
That was Cary Williams.
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BlaqOptic


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 43632
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
The only reason I would vote Reed is because he would retire and essentially the Ravens would immediately be vaulted into rebuilding mode.


I hope this is sarcasm. Ed leaving is far from going to make us enter rebuilding mode.


You lose two defensive staples... Haloti Ngata cannot stay healthy... I'm not impressed with your young talent other than Webb(defensively) if this season is any indication. Yeah, I'd say that with the loss of those two the Ravens become an offensive team that needs to be carried by Flacco for the next couple of seasons without stellar drafts.


If by "rebuilding" you mean we need to focus some of our drafts on re-acquiring some more young talent on defense, I can agree.

If you mean "rebuilding" in the sense that it's commonly used (a team taking a step backwards to try to build themselves up for the future) then you're vastly mistaken.

I'd argue, if anything, the loss of guys like Kruger and Cary Williams are going to hurt more than losing Ray and Ed at their point in their careers, particularly Kruger. Ed, in reality, is almost just a liability at this point in his career. He struggles tackling anyone and is too slow for his gambling style to pay off anymore.


Essentially what I was saying - without saying it all - is that you guys are going to lose at least 3 defensive starters if you win this game... Reed and Ray will retire. Kruger is going to walk in Free Agency. I feel that if you win Cary Williams will be able to return due to Reed's retirement but if he leaves too that puts the one guy with the weird name in the Nickel right?

I certainly think you guys still compete but that's more to the fact that the Steelers are on the downswing and the Bengals have the talent but can't seem to put it together consistently.


If Ray/Ed/Kruger/Cary all walk, ignoring FA/draft, our DBs will likely be Webb/Graham/Jimmy/Chykie Brown (just replacing Cary with Webb and its identical to what we have now). I'd guess Ihedigbo would take over at FS which is a concern, but I have trust that we could get a FA safety to play better there, or a drafted guy (or we have Christian Thompson who was a 4th round pick of ours last year that could compete for the job).

Ray leaving just takes us back to McClain/Ellerbe at ILB which is an ok duo. Ellerbe is coming into his own now that he's getting more play time again, but McClain is still just very average. Our depth is what takes the biggest hit with Ray walking.

The pass rush is what I'd be most afraid of. It's already poor, but hopefully Suggs getting back to full strength would be able to offset Kruger's loss a bit. And hopefully Upshaw will be able to develop into more of a pass rush threat as well to complement his already strong run defense.

So really, we're pretty decently prepared for more departures on the defensive side. We certainly will need to focus the draft on some more young talent, as well as pick up some bargain FAs (like we have with Redding, Pollard, Graham, etc), but we certainly won't be entering "rebuilding mode" as it's commonly viewed on these boards. "Retooling"? Sure, but that's on both sides of the ball -- offense due to age (particularly OL) and defense due to departures.


I guess Retooling is the better ord.
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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
iPwn wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Please let us know the difference...
One is trying to make a play to help his team. The other is not trying to make a play to not help his team.


Yet one never gets called out for it while other safeties do... Randy Moss not running a route doesn't HURT his team. It just doesn't help. The other HURTS his team by going for the personal glory.

Look, I don't think that Reed severely hurts his team but I'm stretching no more than people calling Moss a "Me First" player due to not running routes on running plays. He's run LITERALLY MILLIONS of routes and you can point to a couple of 100 and that make him a "Me first" guy regardless? We can ignore his years in New England and San Fransisco?


So basically this all just comes down to your boy Troy getting bashed for busting coverage but not Reed?

Moss quit on Oakland. You can say he did all this other stuff, but that doesn't take away the fact he acted like a baby without his bottle and stopped trying. Not running routes HURTS a team, you are sadly mistaken if you think otherwise.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
iPwn wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Please let us know the difference...
One is trying to make a play to help his team. The other is not trying to make a play to not help his team.


Yet one never gets called out for it while other safeties do... Randy Moss not running a route doesn't HURT his team. It just doesn't help. The other HURTS his team by going for the personal glory.

Look, I don't think that Reed severely hurts his team but I'm stretching no more than people calling Moss a "Me First" player due to not running routes on running plays. He's run LITERALLY MILLIONS of routes and you can point to a couple of 100 and that make him a "Me first" guy regardless? We can ignore his years in New England and San Fransisco?


So basically this all just comes down to your boy Troy getting bashed for busting coverage but not Reed?

Moss quit on Oakland. You can say he did all this other stuff, but that doesn't take away the fact he acted like a baby without his bottle and stopped trying. Not running routes HURTS a team, you are sadly mistaken if you think otherwise.


I'm kinda upset that other players don't get called out for quitting. Moss is like the poster boy, but the entire Rams team quit under Scott Linehan. The Bucs completely quit last year. You never hear anyone call them out. Players quit all the time. Doesn't make it ok, just saying.
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BlaqOptic


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
iPwn wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Please let us know the difference...
One is trying to make a play to help his team. The other is not trying to make a play to not help his team.


Yet one never gets called out for it while other safeties do... Randy Moss not running a route doesn't HURT his team. It just doesn't help. The other HURTS his team by going for the personal glory.

Look, I don't think that Reed severely hurts his team but I'm stretching no more than people calling Moss a "Me First" player due to not running routes on running plays. He's run LITERALLY MILLIONS of routes and you can point to a couple of 100 and that make him a "Me first" guy regardless? We can ignore his years in New England and San Fransisco?


So basically this all just comes down to your boy Troy getting bashed for busting coverage but not Reed?

Moss quit on Oakland. You can say he did all this other stuff, but that doesn't take away the fact he acted like a baby without his bottle and stopped trying. Not running routes HURTS a team, you are sadly mistaken if you think otherwise.


No it comes down to player double standards in general. It's something I've hated on this forum for forever....

Ed Reed routinely blows coverages but no one talks about it. Any other safety does it and there's a topic...

J-Jo blows a coverage and suddenly he sucks... A normal CB gets burned and nothing...

Joe Thomas gets beat for a sack on National TV and he's overrated. Another O-Lineman and nothing...

A lot of receivers have not run routes yet only Moss gets called out for it.

There's like a double standard for players and it just irks me bones. People seriously oversell this all the time.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
iPwn wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Please let us know the difference...
One is trying to make a play to help his team. The other is not trying to make a play to not help his team.


Yet one never gets called out for it while other safeties do... Randy Moss not running a route doesn't HURT his team. It just doesn't help. The other HURTS his team by going for the personal glory.

Look, I don't think that Reed severely hurts his team but I'm stretching no more than people calling Moss a "Me First" player due to not running routes on running plays. He's run LITERALLY MILLIONS of routes and you can point to a couple of 100 and that make him a "Me first" guy regardless? We can ignore his years in New England and San Fransisco?


So basically this all just comes down to your boy Troy getting bashed for busting coverage but not Reed?

Moss quit on Oakland. You can say he did all this other stuff, but that doesn't take away the fact he acted like a baby without his bottle and stopped trying. Not running routes HURTS a team, you are sadly mistaken if you think otherwise.


I'm kinda upset that other players don't get called out for quitting. Moss is like the poster boy, but the entire Rams team quit under Scott Linehan. The Bucs completely quit last year. You never hear anyone call them out. Players quit all the time. Doesn't make it ok, just saying.

I get a peeved when Moss gets called out too.

I'm past my high school and college days now. I play sports for the fun of it, nothing else. Don't get paid. In fact i pay to play. But yet when i find myself on a team that's completely and totally outmatched, i don't go 100%. No one does. If you think that all players play their heart out no matter what the stakes, you're very naive. Players play harder when the stakes are higher. And in Oakland, the stakes were very low.

Moss just gets called out because he admitted it. At least he doesn't lie.
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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
iPwn wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Please let us know the difference...
One is trying to make a play to help his team. The other is not trying to make a play to not help his team.


Yet one never gets called out for it while other safeties do... Randy Moss not running a route doesn't HURT his team. It just doesn't help. The other HURTS his team by going for the personal glory.

Look, I don't think that Reed severely hurts his team but I'm stretching no more than people calling Moss a "Me First" player due to not running routes on running plays. He's run LITERALLY MILLIONS of routes and you can point to a couple of 100 and that make him a "Me first" guy regardless? We can ignore his years in New England and San Fransisco?


So basically this all just comes down to your boy Troy getting bashed for busting coverage but not Reed?

Moss quit on Oakland. You can say he did all this other stuff, but that doesn't take away the fact he acted like a baby without his bottle and stopped trying. Not running routes HURTS a team, you are sadly mistaken if you think otherwise.


No it comes down to player double standards in general. It's something I've hated on this forum for forever....

Ed Reed routinely blows coverages but no one talks about it. Any other safety does it and there's a topic...

J-Jo blows a coverage and suddenly he sucks... A normal CB gets burned and nothing...

Joe Thomas gets beat for a sack on National TV and he's overrated. Another O-Lineman and nothing...

A lot of receivers have not run routes yet only Moss gets called out for it.

There's like a double standard for players and it just irks me bones. People seriously oversell this all the time.


Welcome to the internet, bro.
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BlaqOptic


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 43632
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
iPwn wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Please let us know the difference...
One is trying to make a play to help his team. The other is not trying to make a play to not help his team.


Yet one never gets called out for it while other safeties do... Randy Moss not running a route doesn't HURT his team. It just doesn't help. The other HURTS his team by going for the personal glory.

Look, I don't think that Reed severely hurts his team but I'm stretching no more than people calling Moss a "Me First" player due to not running routes on running plays. He's run LITERALLY MILLIONS of routes and you can point to a couple of 100 and that make him a "Me first" guy regardless? We can ignore his years in New England and San Fransisco?


So basically this all just comes down to your boy Troy getting bashed for busting coverage but not Reed?

Moss quit on Oakland. You can say he did all this other stuff, but that doesn't take away the fact he acted like a baby without his bottle and stopped trying. Not running routes HURTS a team, you are sadly mistaken if you think otherwise.


No it comes down to player double standards in general. It's something I've hated on this forum for forever....

Ed Reed routinely blows coverages but no one talks about it. Any other safety does it and there's a topic...

J-Jo blows a coverage and suddenly he sucks... A normal CB gets burned and nothing...

Joe Thomas gets beat for a sack on National TV and he's overrated. Another O-Lineman and nothing...

A lot of receivers have not run routes yet only Moss gets called out for it.

There's like a double standard for players and it just irks me bones. People seriously oversell this all the time.


Welcome to the internet, bro.


Well played..
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed does not give up many huge plays. That's why we have given up the fewest passing TDs over the last two years with a variable secondary and sometimes good sometimes anemic pass rush. So, I wouldn't say that he abandons his responsibilities.

Not saying, he doesn't leave a spot to gamble at times, but we haven't been burned as much as most teams.
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Burial


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed reed, great player in and out, gives his heart for the game and his team.

Moss is a quitter, and nothing more than a ring chaser at this point.
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Uncle Buck


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely Moss. He was a key contributor to two of the best teams of all time, and unfortunately, neither one of them won the Super Bowl. He's a sure fire Hall of Famer, and I'd love to see him add a ring to his trophy case.

Here's another way to answer this question. Take Reed and Moss, both in their prime, and line them up against one another. Snap the ball, wait 4 seconds and throw the ball up in the air. Who do you think comes down with it? No question in my mind. It's the Super Freak, probably 7 or 8 times out of ten.
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