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Who would you choose?
Lewis
36%
 36%  [ 45 ]
Willis/Bowman
63%
 63%  [ 77 ]
Total Votes : 122

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RandyMossIsBoss


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on what you want to run. I'd run a 4-3, so I'd obviously take Lewis. I'm a huge Willis fan, but Lewis is the greatest ILB of all time and you don't pass that up. I'd take a single elite player over two great players any day.
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Cali2Wisco


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
neezy007 wrote:
l3lind golfer wrote:
Willis and Bowman are two top 5 MLB's right now, Lewis is the greatest of all-time at that position. And that is just on the field play. What about the leadership and intangables that Willis and Bowman couldn't dream of having. We're talking about quite possibly the greatest leader in the history of sports.

This isn't even close, it's Ray Lewis.


Yeah. Sure. You don't know that. Ray yells and dances around. That doesn't make you a good leader. That's something else completely, stuff that goes on behind the scenes that you, or anyone else here, knows nothing about.

I know it happens with every team but I don't understand how a guy yelling at you will motivate someone to play harder. You are a grown up man playing a game for millions for dollars. You need some yelling, dancing, guy to scream at you for you to be motivated? Give me a break. If that's the case and people believe that's leadership that's sad.


Hm, so are you suggesting Ray Lewis is not a good leader then?


No he never said that. Even though i dont agree with what he is saying. He is saying that how do you actually tell who is a better leader, i.e what makes Ray Lewis a better leader than London Fletcher?


The fact that Ray elevates the play of everyone around him, and has done that for 16 years now, among several other factors. It's one thing to be the GOAT at your position, but when you've been here for 16 years, seen something like 10 coaches get hired from your defense, and you constantly make that unit stay in the top-10 and play at an elite level with a revolving door of players, that says a little bit about as a leader.

I really don't understand the questioning of his stature as a leader at this point in his career, lol, I'm a little blindsided by the question to be honest.


I've been seeing wayyyyy to many of these types of posts around here recently. People really need to look up the definition of a fact.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cali2Wisco wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
neezy007 wrote:
l3lind golfer wrote:
Willis and Bowman are two top 5 MLB's right now, Lewis is the greatest of all-time at that position. And that is just on the field play. What about the leadership and intangables that Willis and Bowman couldn't dream of having. We're talking about quite possibly the greatest leader in the history of sports.

This isn't even close, it's Ray Lewis.


Yeah. Sure. You don't know that. Ray yells and dances around. That doesn't make you a good leader. That's something else completely, stuff that goes on behind the scenes that you, or anyone else here, knows nothing about.

I know it happens with every team but I don't understand how a guy yelling at you will motivate someone to play harder. You are a grown up man playing a game for millions for dollars. You need some yelling, dancing, guy to scream at you for you to be motivated? Give me a break. If that's the case and people believe that's leadership that's sad.


Hm, so are you suggesting Ray Lewis is not a good leader then?


No he never said that. Even though i dont agree with what he is saying. He is saying that how do you actually tell who is a better leader, i.e what makes Ray Lewis a better leader than London Fletcher?


The fact that Ray elevates the play of everyone around him, and has done that for 16 years now, among several other factors. It's one thing to be the GOAT at your position, but when you've been here for 16 years, seen something like 10 coaches get hired from your defense, and you constantly make that unit stay in the top-10 and play at an elite level with a revolving door of players, that says a little bit about as a leader.

I really don't understand the questioning of his stature as a leader at this point in his career, lol, I'm a little blindsided by the question to be honest.


I've been seeing wayyyyy to many of these types of posts around here recently. People really need to look up the definition of a fact.


Okay, let me clarify: he doesn't physically make them play better, but he sures up the defense and makes sure everyone is in the right spot and that they are in the right coverage, thus elevating the play of people around him by eliminating the mental mistakes that would be made if he wasn't on the field.
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l3lind golfer


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray Lewis leadership; watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E22tZRpsOyo

That is RIGHT AFTER Lee Evans drops a game winning TD pass and their FG kicker misses a extra point (length) FG to win the freaking game.

But all he does is yell and dance around. Give me a break.
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Jetsman82


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't simply quantity vs quality, like some are suggesting.

Willis and Bowman are not just your run of the mill LBs, they're both elite right now. Willis is likely in his prime, and Bowman might actually be a year away from his true prime. I understand Lewis was on a different level than these two when he was in his prime, but I value team defense more than an individual standout, even if that standout is the GOAT.

This ended up being closer in my mind than I thought originally, but I have to take two elite players.
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Gore Whore 21


Joined: 15 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this has been brought to your attention as I stopped reading after page two.

Navorro Bowman
Quote:
11/27/2012: Signed a seven-year, $46.37 million contract. The deal contains $25.5 million guaranteed, including a $7.5 million signing bonus. An annual $750,000 roster bonus is available in years three through seven. 2012: $540,000, 2013: $630,000 (+ $4 million option bonus), 2014: $4 million, 2015: $4.7 million, 2016: $5.85 million, 2017: $6.75 million, 2018: $8.7 million, 2019: Free Agent


Patrick Willis
Quote:
5/4/2010: Signed a seven-year, $53.51 million contract. The deal contains $29 million guaranteed, including a $15.5 million signing bonus and a $4.8 million "supersede" signing bonus in the second year. Willis is eligible for annual $1.25 million workout bonuses in years three through seven. 2012: $1.904 million, 2013: $2.402 million, 2014: $5.285 million, 2015: $7.065 million, 2016: $7.935 million, 2017: Free Agent


I understand how great Ray has been throughout his career, but to say Pat isn't even close is pretty ridiculous to me. He's made the pro-bowl all 6 years he's been in the league, and yes I understand that is not the measuring stick, but he has also been selected 1st team All-Pro 5 times, 1 year 2nd team All-Pro. Bowman is a two time first team All-Pro in his only two years starting. The last two years they were first team All-Pro together. To me it's flat out ridiculous to say the top two middle linebackers together 'aren't even close' to Ray Lewis in his prime. Time will tell what these guy's legacies will be, but this to me is just a ridiculous comparison.
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Gore Whore 21


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
Depends on what you want to run. I'd run a 4-3, so I'd obviously take Lewis. I'm a huge Willis fan, but Lewis is the greatest ILB of all time and you don't pass that up. I'd take a single elite player over two great players any day.


If you are running a 4-3 you'd rather take an elite MLB over an elite MLB and an elite OLB? Because that's exactly what you'd have with Pat and Bow
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SFaithful97


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
Depends on what you want to run. I'd run a 4-3, so I'd obviously take Lewis. I'm a huge Willis fan, but Lewis is the greatest ILB of all time and you don't pass that up. I'd take a single elite player over two great players any day.
Sorry but this is wrong. Ray is great, in every way a person can mean that word. That said, if you played a 4-3 and had Willis in the middle with Bowman playing OLB you would have a tandem as good or better than Urlacher and Briggs ever were (and they were great for years, still pretty darn good in fact). Lewis is awesome and I take him over either of the two individually (at this point, kind of hard to compare careers when Lewis is done and the two others are near the beginning to the middle of theirs) but you take the two all-pro ILBs to build a defense. In fact, Bowman and Willis would both be better players in a 4-3 because of how quick they are to diagnose plays. They would make plays in the backfield all day with 4 DL in front of them.
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I'd rather have young Wagner and Wright going forward than Willis and Bowman.
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VD85


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shocked that it's this close really
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Ketchup


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray Lewis is the GOAT at his position. I take him ALL DAY.
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok how about this would you take Jerry Rice on your team or Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson?
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
neezy007 wrote:
l3lind golfer wrote:
Willis and Bowman are two top 5 MLB's right now, Lewis is the greatest of all-time at that position. And that is just on the field play. What about the leadership and intangables that Willis and Bowman couldn't dream of having. We're talking about quite possibly the greatest leader in the history of sports.

This isn't even close, it's Ray Lewis.


Yeah. Sure. You don't know that. Ray yells and dances around. That doesn't make you a good leader. That's something else completely, stuff that goes on behind the scenes that you, or anyone else here, knows nothing about.

I know it happens with every team but I don't understand how a guy yelling at you will motivate someone to play harder. You are a grown up man playing a game for millions for dollars. You need some yelling, dancing, guy to scream at you for you to be motivated? Give me a break. If that's the case and people believe that's leadership that's sad.


Hm, so are you suggesting Ray Lewis is not a good leader then?


No he never said that. Even though i dont agree with what he is saying. He is saying that how do you actually tell who is a better leader, i.e what makes Ray Lewis a better leader than London Fletcher?


The fact that Ray elevates the play of everyone around him, and has done that for 16 years now, among several other factors. It's one thing to be the GOAT at your position, but when you've been here for 16 years, seen something like 10 coaches get hired from your defense, and you constantly make that unit stay in the top-10 and play at an elite level with a revolving door of players, that says a little bit about as a leader.


I really don't understand the questioning of his stature as a leader at this point in his career, lol, I'm a little blindsided by the question to be honest.


Look ray lewis a great leader no doubt. But hes not the only player that elevates players around him. What about Patrick Willis, does he not elevate the players around him? There is no way to tell who is a better but you can show what a great leader is. Its like when people say, this player works harder than anybody else or this player is as passionate about his job than anybody else. You cant exactly prove that.

Nobody is saying Ray isnt a great leader, because that is just flat out wrong but you cannot say he is the greatest leader of all time.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
neezy007 wrote:
l3lind golfer wrote:
Willis and Bowman are two top 5 MLB's right now, Lewis is the greatest of all-time at that position. And that is just on the field play. What about the leadership and intangables that Willis and Bowman couldn't dream of having. We're talking about quite possibly the greatest leader in the history of sports.

This isn't even close, it's Ray Lewis.


Yeah. Sure. You don't know that. Ray yells and dances around. That doesn't make you a good leader. That's something else completely, stuff that goes on behind the scenes that you, or anyone else here, knows nothing about.

I know it happens with every team but I don't understand how a guy yelling at you will motivate someone to play harder. You are a grown up man playing a game for millions for dollars. You need some yelling, dancing, guy to scream at you for you to be motivated? Give me a break. If that's the case and people believe that's leadership that's sad.


Hm, so are you suggesting Ray Lewis is not a good leader then?


No he never said that. Even though i dont agree with what he is saying. He is saying that how do you actually tell who is a better leader, i.e what makes Ray Lewis a better leader than London Fletcher?


The fact that Ray elevates the play of everyone around him, and has done that for 16 years now, among several other factors. It's one thing to be the GOAT at your position, but when you've been here for 16 years, seen something like 10 coaches get hired from your defense, and you constantly make that unit stay in the top-10 and play at an elite level with a revolving door of players, that says a little bit about as a leader.


I really don't understand the questioning of his stature as a leader at this point in his career, lol, I'm a little blindsided by the question to be honest.


Look ray lewis a great leader no doubt. But hes not the only player that elevates players around him. What about Patrick Willis, does he not elevate the players around him? There is no way to tell who is a better but you can show what a great leader is. Its like when people say, this player works harder than anybody else or this player is as passionate about his job than anybody else. You cant exactly prove that.

Nobody is saying Ray isnt a great leader, because that is just flat out wrong but you cannot say he is the greatest leader of all time.


So what happens when players, coaches, analysts, etc. are all saying it?
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Ataal


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we weren't talking about Lewis, this would be the easiest choice ever. It's kind of like asking whether you'd want Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. If it wasn't Michael Jordan, that would be an easy choice. Granted, this analogy has differences in ages, but you get my point.

It's hard to separate the homer from the logical thinker when it's your team. I watch these guys every game and see how instrumental they are to our defense. When one has to cover a tight end, the other is there to make the play on the other side of the field on a screen or quarterback pressure/run. Something one person cannot do, no matter how GOAT you are.

On the other hand, Lewis in his prime, was a one-man wrecking ball. Always seemed to be where the ball was. And, when he wasn't, it was probably because the offensive coordinator called the play to keep him out of reach.

For the poll, I voted for the duo because we know what we have in Lewis, but Willis and Bowman may not have even hit their prime yet and have already played at an elite level.

That being said, I would be extremely happy to have either scenario. You're going to have a good defensive infrastructure either way.
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
neezy007 wrote:
l3lind golfer wrote:
Willis and Bowman are two top 5 MLB's right now, Lewis is the greatest of all-time at that position. And that is just on the field play. What about the leadership and intangables that Willis and Bowman couldn't dream of having. We're talking about quite possibly the greatest leader in the history of sports.

This isn't even close, it's Ray Lewis.


Yeah. Sure. You don't know that. Ray yells and dances around. That doesn't make you a good leader. That's something else completely, stuff that goes on behind the scenes that you, or anyone else here, knows nothing about.

I know it happens with every team but I don't understand how a guy yelling at you will motivate someone to play harder. You are a grown up man playing a game for millions for dollars. You need some yelling, dancing, guy to scream at you for you to be motivated? Give me a break. If that's the case and people believe that's leadership that's sad.


Hm, so are you suggesting Ray Lewis is not a good leader then?


No he never said that. Even though i dont agree with what he is saying. He is saying that how do you actually tell who is a better leader, i.e what makes Ray Lewis a better leader than London Fletcher?


The fact that Ray elevates the play of everyone around him, and has done that for 16 years now, among several other factors. It's one thing to be the GOAT at your position, but when you've been here for 16 years, seen something like 10 coaches get hired from your defense, and you constantly make that unit stay in the top-10 and play at an elite level with a revolving door of players, that says a little bit about as a leader.


I really don't understand the questioning of his stature as a leader at this point in his career, lol, I'm a little blindsided by the question to be honest.


Look ray lewis a great leader no doubt. But hes not the only player that elevates players around him. What about Patrick Willis, does he not elevate the players around him? There is no way to tell who is a better but you can show what a great leader is. Its like when people say, this player works harder than anybody else or this player is as passionate about his job than anybody else. You cant exactly prove that.

Nobody is saying Ray isnt a great leader, because that is just flat out wrong but you cannot say he is the greatest leader of all time.


So what happens when players, coaches, analysts, etc. are all saying it?
they dont know what theyre saying then. Just because they have more knowledge than me of the game doesnt make them right or mor right for that matter. We're not talking Xs and Os, we are talking about in general.
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