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An Addition to the Challenge System
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Should penalties be challengable?
Yes, but only for PI
28%
 28%  [ 10 ]
Yes, for every penalty
22%
 22%  [ 8 ]
No
48%
 48%  [ 17 ]
Total Votes : 35

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Joe_is_the_best


Joined: 31 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: An Addition to the Challenge System Reply with quote

Simple question: Should a coach be able to challenge a penalty?

Other relevant questions: Which penalties can be challenged? Should non calls be challengable? Can a penalty call be indisputable?

In my view, a coach should be able to challenge a pass interference call or no call. You may even limit it to the 4th quarter, I don't care. There have been way to many of these calls that have influenced the game. The pass interference is one of the more impactful penalties in the rulebook, and thus coaches should be able to challenge it.

The penalty will have to be indisputable to overturn, like any review. Coaches have to be specific as to what they are challenging. The coach would need to say the approximate yard line the foul occurred, and the party they believe committed or did not commit a pass interference.

I see this as no different than challenging whether a ball was tipped when a pass interference was called.

I am against offensive holding being challengable, for obvious reasons. Holding happens on many plays and doesn't get called, for dubious reasons. I see no rhyme or reason to holding calls, so this would be a difficult hurdle for me.

Holding for defensive backs is less dubious, as a jersey grab is a surefire indicator of defensive holding. Other possible ones could include helmet-to-helmet hits, roughing the passer, illegal celebrations, etc. Coaches would have to be choosy as to which plays they will challenge, and I think this could provide extra safeguards against bad calls, that can change seasons.

Are there any other penalties that should be challengable? Am I crazy? Let me hear your thoughts.
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No penalties are judgement call, it get too messy
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acgott wrote:
No penalties are judgement call, it get too messy
Is every penalty a judgement call?
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Acgott wrote:
No penalties are judgement call, it get too messy
Is every penalty a judgement call?

Yes, because every ref has their own opinion.

The only way it work for presnap penalties such as False Starts

With PI its always the judgement call of the referee if they think if there was enough contact for a flag
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldnt fumbles and catches be considered judgement calls too. A catch or fumble is not always black and white.
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alfalcone


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Penalties look different on replay than they do live, so many more ticky tack fouls would be called. Also it would / could slow the pace of the game. My only real problems with the replay system are that teams lose a timeout when the ruling stands, I think a challenge should be confirmed for a timeout to be lost, and that teams are limited to a maximum of three challenges, if a ref blows 4 calls, teams should have the ability to correct that.
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Ketchup


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personal fouls and pass interference should be the only flags that can be challenges because they are such game changers most the times, especially the 35+ yard DPI penalty.
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YlionsY


Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes I feel like penalty calls are worth challenging.

Penalties can play a huge part in how games go.
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Malik


Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
Personal fouls and pass interference should be the only flags that can be challenges because they are such game changers most the times, especially the 35+ yard DPI penalty.


Agreed. I wish refs would practice discretion particularly on kick and punt returns with calling holds or block in back penalties that are 10+ yards away from the return and have zero effect on the success of it.
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MARIO MANGELINI


Joined: 15 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
Personal fouls and pass interference should be the only flags that can be challenges because they are such game changers most the times, especially the 35+ yard DPI penalty.


Or even the ones that extend a drive, like a pass on 4th and 3 that gets called for DPI.

I think the real question here is should a non-penalty be challengable? AKA, you think there was pass interference but it wasn't called?
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lionslicer


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acgott wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Acgott wrote:
No penalties are judgement call, it get too messy
Is every penalty a judgement call?

Yes, because every ref has their own opinion.

The only way it work for presnap penalties such as False Starts

With PI its always the judgement call of the referee if they think if there was enough contact for a flag


No, penalties like 12 men on the field re not judgement calls because there is either 12 men on the field or not, there is no maybe. There are a few others.
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mse326


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No to pass interference. It isn't simply contact that makes it a foul, it has to substantially interfere with the ability to catch the ball. That get's into fairly subjective areas.

The only ones I think should be challengeable are the defenseless player personal fouls. And even that I think should be limited only to the second part (whether the hit was impermissable), but not the first part (was the receiver in fact defenseless). The reason is simply that there really is no grey area to the rule. You either hit the guy in the head/neck area or with the crown/hairline of your helmet or you don't.
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BlackandBlue


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Delay of game should be reviewable.
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OneBadCat


Joined: 24 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To those that don't want PI's challenged you are either a Tony Gonzalez fan or you simply enjoy watching your team get cheated by the refs.

They most certainly should be challengeable. So should roughing the passer. Everyone on the field is held accountable except for the officials. I'm tired of them cheating teams out of games.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneBadCat wrote:
To those that don't want PI's challenged you are either a Tony Gonzalez fan or you simply enjoy watching your team get cheated by the refs.

They most certainly should be challengeable. So should roughing the passer. Everyone on the field is held accountable except for the officials. I'm tired of them cheating teams out of games.


I'm not either of those things, and I think PI should not be challengeable.

If so, where is the line going to be drawn? Any contract by the defender is a penalty? What if they are both hand fighting, but the defender got just a bit more? What if the arm around the back didn't turn the receiver? Bottom line is that it's just going to make things even more arguable and more blame be put on the refs.

Challenging things has to be "black/white" type things as best as we can limit it to them.

I can agree on the helmet to helmet hits, and maybe false starts (but those arent typically an argument anyway), but other than that, I don't think we should change things.
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