Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Next Contract for Joe Flacco
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Buckweath


Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Posts: 867
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="SnA ExclusiVe"][quote="Keleth"]
Flaccomania wrote:

And that somehow should be a negative against Flacco? That we have a solid team all around? Sorry, but no.


Ravens had the 27th ranked defense this year, and the 21st ranked run game...

What the hell else do you want from Flacco?


So what? Joe Flacco, regardless of the Ravens defense, was at best merely a good QB during the season.

And anybody who has watched those playoffs and who has a brain know that Ravens defense has been great.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 22504
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buckweath wrote:


So what? Joe Flacco, regardless of the Ravens defense, was at best merely a good QB during the season.

And anybody who has watched those playoffs and who has a brain know that Ravens defense has been great.


Okay, so he was good in the regular and now he's spectacular in the post season, and that's still not good enough? He's thrown 8 TD's and 0 INT's IN THE POST SEASON this year...and that's not good enough?

You know what, screw it, this is ridiculous...
_________________

BlaqOptic wrote:
Salty about Dennis Pitta? Please... Dude is average as average goes...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49729
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Buckweath wrote:


So what? Joe Flacco, regardless of the Ravens defense, was at best merely a good QB during the season.

And anybody who has watched those playoffs and who has a brain know that Ravens defense has been great.


Okay, so he was good in the regular and now he's spectacular in the post season, and that's still not good enough? He's thrown 8 TD's and 0 INT's IN THE POST SEASON this year...and that's not good enough?

You know what, screw it, this is ridiculous...


For one...werent you one of the Ravens fans bashing on Flacco just a 6-8 weeks ago? If so, Im not sure how you can get angry about something like that. (Im not saying it was definitely you, but I remember 2 or 3 Ravens fans on here saying he shouldnt be resigned)

Secondly, he isnt saying that isnt good enough. He is saying that while Flacco has been good, its not like he has single handedly carried his team. He deserves props, but he doesnt deserve to be put up on a pedastal some people put him on.

And before you call me a hater, Ive defended Flacco much more over the last two years than I have put him down, and I think he is playing well right now. And I dont normally agree with Buckweath, but he is right in this case. This forum is so flip floppy its disgusting. A couple good weeks can completely erase a couple bad weeks, and vice versa.

Flacco is a good QB and has had a nice postseason. However, some people are really jumping the gun, though, on HOW good he actually is overall.
_________________
SCPackersFan wrote:
I hold nothing against blue-collar people and I respect/admire them for doing what they do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BaltimoreTerp


Most Valuable Poster (4th Ballot)

Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 29420
Location: Washington, DC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flacco has thrown 30 touchdown passes to 10 interceptions this season. There's no reason to separate the playoff from postseason games when you really think about it. They were all games just the same.

Give him a full year with Jim Caldwell and I think he's going to put up much better regular season numbers next year. Since Caldwell replaced Cam his numbers have skyrocketed (283 passing ypg, 12 touchdowns to 1 INT, 100.9 QB rating), and Philip Rivers and Drew Brees both reached their statistical zeniths after moving on from working in Cam Cameron's offense.

As far as his contract is concerned, I'm guessing it will be slightly higher than what Eli Manning got.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 22504
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, I was one of Flacco's critics, and rightfully so. But I've always held the notion that if Cam Cameron was gone, Flacco would flourish, and he has.

What he's saying, at least to me, is that we should ignore what Flacco's done (especially the absolute butt-whooping he just put on New England) beacuse Denver's secondary blew a coverage, the Ravens have historically had a good defense (which has nothing to do with how good or bad Flacco is), and that Flacco hasn't ever shouldered this offense.

All of those are false, or at least misconstrued points about Flacco.

- Yes, Denver blew a coverage, but Joe Flacco just put on a masterful performance, on the road, in the AFC Championship Game...And you're going to ignore that?

- Baltimore has had a good defense over the years, but never a good offense or at least an offense tailored to Joe Flacco. This is really the first year he's had consistent weapons at all the skill positions, and look how it's benefiting him now and look at the damage he's doing. Secondly, the defense was one of the worst in the league all year long and Flacco and the offense carried the team most of the year, and even now in the playoffs the offense is carrying, but the defense is finally healthy and playing their best football - that shouldn't be held against Flacco.

- Flacco has had numerous games where he's shouldered the team. Pittsburgh last year in Pittsburgh, Arizona last year, Dallas this year, etc. etc., all games where it was Joe Flacco and the offense that won the game, not the defense.

Oh well, either way Joe has done enough in my mind, pretty much all other Ravens' fans minds, and Steve Bisciotti's mind to warrant a hefty contract. He's a top-10 QB and he's getting better every game.
_________________

BlaqOptic wrote:
Salty about Dennis Pitta? Please... Dude is average as average goes...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Curtain


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 482
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd hardly call his performance in Denver "masterful". He was pretty mediocre the first half of the game and got a few breaks with Denver's AWFUL defense at the end of the gamae, as well as Boldin/Smith becoming unstoppable. His big plays were mostly just him throwing it up and Boldin/Smith making a huge play on it.

He has played great this post season, but so have his weapons. Smith/Boldin have greatly outplayed the Smith/Boldin of the regular season. I don't remember if it was this thread (or one of the other Flacco threads) and don't feel like looking, but I've always said he should be resigned. He gets a lot of hate for being a talented QB who can play up to a top level at times. Even if he didn't knock this post season out of the park like he has, what else would you do if you didn't resign him? He was always the best option to win now.

If Cam truly was the problem, I want to see how Joe plays next season after teams study the post season tapes. Next season is going to be the real barometer for how good Joe Flacco really is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49729
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
- Yes, Denver blew a coverage, but Joe Flacco just put on a masterful performance, on the road, in the AFC Championship Game...And you're going to ignore that?


I agree with some of the points you made, but Flacco's game against the Broncos was not "masterful". He had a good game and made some plays when needed, but masterful suggests that he was dominant that game and he wasnt.


Quote:
- Baltimore has had a good defense over the years, but never a good offense or at least an offense tailored to Joe Flacco. This is really the first year he's had consistent weapons at all the skill positions, and look how it's benefiting him now and look at the damage he's doing.


In all fairness, Flacco has had nice runs before. Thats what would concern me. Is this just a good "run", or is it a sign of things to come.

Time will tell.

Quote:
Secondly, the defense was one of the worst in the league all year long and Flacco and the offense carried the team most of the year, and even now in the playoffs the offense is carrying, but the defense is finally healthy and playing their best football - that shouldn't be held against Flacco.


It went back and fourth. Some games the offense kept them in it...some games the defense kept them in it.

But towards the end, it almost fell apart.

Quote:
- Flacco has had numerous games where he's shouldered the team. Pittsburgh last year in Pittsburgh, Arizona last year, Dallas this year, etc. etc., all games where it was Joe Flacco and the offense that won the game, not the defense.


Well, lets be real...there were several games where Flacco really didnt do anything either, and they won. Look at the first Steeler game this year. Joe didnt do anyhting, and the only reason they won was because of a ST kick return.

Quote:
Oh well, either way Joe has done enough in my mind, pretty much all other Ravens' fans minds, and Steve Bisciotti's mind to warrant a hefty contract. He's a top-10 QB and he's getting better every game.


1) Yes...he does deserve a nice new contract.

2) He's been a fringe top 10 QB for a while now IMO. I think he has been good in the playoffs, but he isnt carrying the team like some people are acting.
_________________
SCPackersFan wrote:
I hold nothing against blue-collar people and I respect/admire them for doing what they do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BaltimoreTerp


Most Valuable Poster (4th Ballot)

Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 29420
Location: Washington, DC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most quarterbacks don't win (or go to) a Super Bowl 'carrying' his team, because you don't go to the Super Bowl only playing well on one side of the ball. Even the greats, like Brady and Manning, won their Super Bowls when their defenses were playing really well. Brees was dynamite during his Super Bowl run but do they win without intercepting Favre at the end of the NFCCG or Tracy Porter's pick-six in the Super Bowl? Probably not. Rodgers went HAM in that postseason but his defense also knocked Cutler out of the NFCCG and the Collins pick-six in the Super Bowl was arguably the biggest play of the night. If the knock on Flacco's play right now is that the rest of the team is playing well too, well, I'll take it, because that's more or less what you need to go on a SB run. But there's no doubt that Flacco has delivered when he's been needed this season, whether it's stopping Denver cold with long bombs just when they seemed primed to pull away or put the game away, or leading 3 straight TD drives in the 2nd half of the AFCCG to punk the Patriots.

Isolating games where Flacco has been bailed out by the strong play of D/ST just seems like an excercise in futility. You can do this for just about every successful quarterback, but what good does it do beyond prove that said quarterback hasn't had to be perfect in order to win sometimes? Ben Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl in a season where he threw 17 touchdowns to 15 interceptions in the regular season; it's not like that fact invalidates his own legitimate claim to being an essential piece of their success.

It's fair to point out that Flacco has had streaks like this before, but I think basically from the get-go when Cam was fired this was seen as a 'show-me' moment for Flacco. He had what he wanted, what everyone said he needed, and so it was his time to prove what he was capable of doing when he could do things his way. He has done just about everything that you could ask for out of that situation. Maybe it's just another streak, but it might also be the moment where he turned the corner and established a new normal for himself. Also, I'm not even sure if he's ever quite had a streak like this. Not this good, not in this type of environment and pressure. I would have to take a longer look at Flacco's career game-by-game but I'm not sure if he's ever enjoyed quite the stretch he's having right now.

He's not going to come out and throw 45 touchdown passes next year or anything, but at the same time, it's not an overreaction to react to the facts on the ground and let them influence your decision-making. Joe Flacco has earned the right to have his status re-examined with the way he has played the past several weeks.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 8684
Location: MD
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
- Yes, Denver blew a coverage, but Joe Flacco just put on a masterful performance, on the road, in the AFC Championship Game...And you're going to ignore that?


I agree with some of the points you made, but Flacco's game against the Broncos was not "masterful". He had a good game and made some plays when needed, but masterful suggests that he was dominant that game and he wasnt.


The Curtain wrote:
I'd hardly call his performance in Denver "masterful". He was pretty mediocre the first half of the game and got a few breaks with Denver's AWFUL defense at the end of the gamae, as well as Boldin/Smith becoming unstoppable. His big plays were mostly just him throwing it up and Boldin/Smith making a huge play on it.


Guys, he's clearly talking about the game against the Pats on Sunday, look at the bolded.

Also, his two TD throws to Torrey were both things of beauty, not him "throwing it up"
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
sn0mm1s


Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 1955
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they are going to send him to Seattle and replace him with Elvis Grbac.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diamondbull424


Moderator
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 12979
Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buckweath wrote:
Joe Flacco has always been a good QB in my mind, top 15 QB, but now he has gotten overrated real fast with those couple of wins in the playoffs.

He's definitly been good in those playoffs, though not great IMO, but if he is to get a 100 million contract, he should give half of it to Rahim Moore, John Fox and to the Ravens defense.

He's done enough to give the Ravens a chance to win every game in those playoffs but the Ravens defense and the Broncos did a lot more to help him get those wins.

No. You simply failed to rate him properly. If he wasn't already a "$100m" QB in the first place. Either that or you failed to account for the QB inflation variable.

I can agree that this forum can be flip floppity, but Flacco was already a top 8-12 QB before these playoffs. He was already a $100m QB before these playoffs with how the QB position and the dollars continue to inflate in their favor. I called 7yrs/$100m for the past year... but now its clear that at the moment, he has more leverage in his favor after a good season and a great post season. No way he makes under $15m now. The lowest I can see him getting paid is probably $15.5m per.

If Flacco was a top 8-12 QB heading into this post season, with these string of games, I don't think it would be inappropriate to have him where Matt Ryan is/has been all this season. I definitely think he's earned the right to be at least a 7b to Ryan's 7a... and honestly, I think Flacco's underrated athleticism and great arm strength makes him a bigger threat. Is Ryan as effective throwing in 20-30 mph winds? Does he have the arm strength to attack a broken coverage in weather that feels like it's -2 degrees? In Ryan's defense, he has a better feel for the pocket than Flacco... and that's big, but I don't think its big enough.

So really, until Flacco proves otherwise, I think it's reasonable to have him rated anywhere in that 6-10 range (you could make an argument for him being above Eli). So the consensus seems to be Flacco at #8/#9... I think that is very fair and I honestly don't see how that's overrating him. I'd honestly like to see a list of 10+ guys that are clearly better than Flacco... for this notion that he's overrated has some sort of credibility.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 22440
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keleth wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:

And that somehow should be a negative against Flacco? That we have a solid team all around? Sorry, but no.


No but elite QBs do that and have done it but Flacco hasn't yet had to do it.
And people seem to be calling for elite money for Flacco so he needs to prove he is elite.
It's the same with Eli,come the playoffs he is elite but he can't seem to drag his team to the playoffs.The team has to get him there before he goes into elite mode.


You don't judge a QB's worth based on the things he hasn't done yet, but rather on the things he has. He will be paid like a top QB in the league due to his success.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
twslhs20


Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 12300
Location: Where the true depth of one's soul doesn't resonate with the world
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really hope its bigger than Drews. So I can watch Rogers ask for the moon.
_________________

Joe_is_the_best ^^
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Keleth


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Restaurant at the end of the universe
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Yup, I was one of Flacco's critics, and rightfully so. But I've always held the notion that if Cam Cameron was gone, Flacco would flourish, and he has.


So why were you crticising him if his play was only down to Cameron ?
Surely you should have been defending him knowing it wasn't his fault ?

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:

Oh well, either way Joe has done enough in my mind, pretty much all other Ravens' fans minds, and Steve Bisciotti's mind to warrant a hefty contract. He's a top-10 QB and he's getting better every game.


If you look back at the various threads on Flacco I've always stated he is a top 10 QB however on the back end of the top 10.
However people are asking him to be paid as an elite QB and how many of them are there in the league ?
4?
So if he deserves elite money that means he is elite ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RainbowCarebear


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 35298
Location: "Are you hungry, child?" Yes, she thought, but not for food.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6/100 5/80-90

Something in that line.
_________________

"Do you imagine Whoresbane loves you any better? If you did not hold the ..., he would pull out your entrails and make you eat them"
"In return, we swore that we should always be their men"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL General All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group