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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrdriii wrote:
If we're gonna draft a punter get Locke from UCLA. He's punts, kicks off and holds and he can take off on a fake too. 7th round seems a bout right especially since I'm sure Shannahan trades down at least once in this draft and gets an extra 7th.
i like it. Thanks mrdrii
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mike23md


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
A few players from the senior bowl I think could end up on the Redskins:

Terrence Williams(doubt he'll be there)
Sio Moore
BW Webb
Kejuan Riley
TJ McDonald
Denard Robinson
Blidi Wreh-Wilson
Duke Williams
Michael Williams
Phillip Thomas

At least those are the few players I think we could get who would fit in here...


This guy would not fit in here. He had a terrible week in senior bowl practice and is converting to the WR position. I would hate to waste a pick on him.


So now we throw away a guys entire collegiate career due to the fact that he struggled at the Senior Bowl? Mind you, these kids are all playing in different systems with different teammates with a weeks worth of practice. I've seen what Denard Robinson is capable of with the ball in his hands and he is electric.


No, we dont throw it away, we bypass it. Why do we need him? I would rather take a true WR who knows the position and has been playing it most of their career so the learning curve is less.

I think that he is going to end up like Brad Smith. I think that Shanahan is trying to stay away from these kind of players.
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
A few players from the senior bowl I think could end up on the Redskins:

Terrence Williams(doubt he'll be there)
Sio Moore
BW Webb
Kejuan Riley
TJ McDonald
Denard Robinson
Blidi Wreh-Wilson
Duke Williams
Michael Williams
Phillip Thomas

At least those are the few players I think we could get who would fit in here...


This guy would not fit in here. He had a terrible week in senior bowl practice and is converting to the WR position. I would hate to waste a pick on him.


So now we throw away a guys entire collegiate career due to the fact that he struggled at the Senior Bowl? Mind you, these kids are all playing in different systems with different teammates with a weeks worth of practice. I've seen what Denard Robinson is capable of with the ball in his hands and he is electric.


No, we dont throw it away, we bypass it. Why do we need him? I would rather take a true WR who knows the position and has been playing it most of their career so the learning curve is less.

I think that he is going to end up like Brad Smith. I think that Shanahan is trying to stay away from these kind of players.


We could use an explosive kick returner so we don't risk injury to Richard Crawford who will most likely be starting for this team soon. If Denard can be had in the 5th where we have two picks than he is more than worth it.
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mike23md


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, I think that we can push Aldrick Robinson into that role. I dont feel that we draft a player to be a kick returner, and from what transpired at the end of the season, it showed that we can use our own players to play KR/PR and not expend a pick on a player that would only serve the purpose.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
Nah, I think that we can push Aldrick Robinson into that role. I dont feel that we draft a player to be a kick returner, and from what transpired at the end of the season, it showed that we can use our own players to play KR/PR and not expend a pick on a player that would only serve the purpose.
thats definitely true. Great point. We have several players who can return and we showed that last year when we deactivated Banks.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
A few players from the senior bowl I think could end up on the Redskins:

Terrence Williams(doubt he'll be there)
Sio Moore
BW Webb
Kejuan Riley
TJ McDonald
Denard Robinson
Blidi Wreh-Wilson
Duke Williams
Michael Williams
Phillip Thomas

At least those are the few players I think we could get who would fit in here...


This guy would not fit in here. He had a terrible week in senior bowl practice and is converting to the WR position. I would hate to waste a pick on him.


So now we throw away a guys entire collegiate career due to the fact that he struggled at the Senior Bowl? Mind you, these kids are all playing in different systems with different teammates with a weeks worth of practice. I've seen what Denard Robinson is capable of with the ball in his hands and he is electric.


No, we dont throw it away, we bypass it. Why do we need him? I would rather take a true WR who knows the position and has been playing it most of their career so the learning curve is less.

I think that he is going to end up like Brad Smith. I think that Shanahan is trying to stay away from these kind of players.


We could use an explosive kick returner so we don't risk injury to Richard Crawford who will most likely be starting for this team soon. If Denard can be had in the 5th where we have two picks than he is more than worth it.


Robinson apparently muffed four or five punts in practice. He doesn't have the experience to handle punts. That's spending a 5th on a serious gamble.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
Why would we draft a punter when we already have a good punter?


Because he's 39 (40 next November) and is a free agent.

turtle28 wrote:
it is if they have the talent to be Guy, Roby, Turk, Lechler or Andy Lee


Guy = 1973
Roby = 1983
Turk = 1993 UDFA
Lechler = 2000
Lee = 2004

Wow, let's focus on the top punters of the past forty years to emphasize how useful drafting a punter is.

turtle28 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
And you know how I feel about drafting a P. The last time we tried that with Durant Brooks, it didnt work out so well. I am cautious of it, but I do agree that we need to find a guy who can do kickoffs to get the ball past the goal line.
that's like saying don't draft RG3 because Jason Campbell never won us a playoff game. Come on man. Confused

It's the 7th round and Brad Wing is worthy of the selection as much as any other player in the draft in the 7th round. Last year we payed Rocca 1.5 million for a just above average season, he also is 39 and just had surgery on his torn MCL. Drafting a kicker is never popular, but its a good selection.

It's time to move on, draft the best young punter in the nation and save cap space at the same time.


First off, you're saving zero cap space since Rocca is a free agent.

Second, it's an opportunity cost thing. Bryan Anger was tied for seventh last year in net punting average (40.8, by comparison Lee and Thomas Morstead were first with 43.2). He looks like a great punter. However, are you telling me that the Jaguars would keep him over Russell Wilson? Or even Nick Foles?

Think of it this way: if you search for NFL.com players by punter, you get 51 results back. 33 are active (don't ask me who is carrying two punters), 14 were cut, 3 are on IR, and 1 is on a practice squad (Matt Szymanski on KC's dev squad).

That means at any time there are half again as many punters available on the street when it comes time to pick a punter. That's just this year. Six punters made the Combine this past year, and four are on active rosters ... but only two were drafted (both are active). Why spend a draft pick if you can sign a UDFA? Or grab 5 or so guys who are on the street and let them kick it out? I'd have to really dig in, but I suspect more than a handful of those 12 other street free agent punters were Combine invitees from 2010 or 2011.

In short, unless you know he's the next coming of Ray Guy, drafting a punter is waste.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
Why would we draft a punter when we already have a good punter?


Because he's 39 (40 next November) and is a free agent.

turtle28 wrote:
it is if they have the talent to be Guy, Roby, Turk, Lechler or Andy Lee


Guy = 1973
Roby = 1983
Turk = 1993 UDFA
Lechler = 2000
Lee = 2004

Wow, let's focus on the top punters of the past forty years to emphasize how useful drafting a punter is.

turtle28 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
And you know how I feel about drafting a P. The last time we tried that with Durant Brooks, it didnt work out so well. I am cautious of it, but I do agree that we need to find a guy who can do kickoffs to get the ball past the goal line.
that's like saying don't draft RG3 because Jason Campbell never won us a playoff game. Come on man. Confused

It's the 7th round and Brad Wing is worthy of the selection as much as any other player in the draft in the 7th round. Last year we payed Rocca 1.5 million for a just above average season, he also is 39 and just had surgery on his torn MCL. Drafting a kicker is never popular, but its a good selection.

It's time to move on, draft the best young punter in the nation and save cap space at the same time.


First off, you're saving zero cap space since Rocca is a free agent.

Second, it's an opportunity cost thing. Bryan Anger was tied for seventh last year in net punting average (40.8, by comparison Lee and Thomas Morstead were first with 43.2). He looks like a great punter. However, are you telling me that the Jaguars would keep him over Russell Wilson? Or even Nick Foles?

Think of it this way: if you search for NFL.com players by punter, you get 51 results back. 33 are active (don't ask me who is carrying two punters), 14 were cut, 3 are on IR, and 1 is on a practice squad (Matt Szymanski on KC's dev squad).

That means at any time there are half again as many punters available on the street when it comes time to pick a punter. That's just this year. Six punters made the Combine this past year, and four are on active rosters ... but only two were drafted (both are active). Why spend a draft pick if you can sign a UDFA? Or grab 5 or so guys who are on the street and let them kick it out? I'd have to really dig in, but I suspect more than a handful of those 12 other street free agent punters were Combine invitees from 2010 or 2011.

In short, unless you know he's the next coming of Ray Guy, drafting a punter is waste.
i totally get what you are saying but we are talking about a 7th round pick. Almost all 7 round picks don't play a down in the NFL. So why not take a chance on a punter who may have pro bowl talent in the 7th round?

Sure, we could take a position player but most likely that player won't make the team.
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
A few players from the senior bowl I think could end up on the Redskins:

Terrence Williams(doubt he'll be there)
Sio Moore
BW Webb
Kejuan Riley
TJ McDonald
Denard Robinson
Blidi Wreh-Wilson
Duke Williams
Michael Williams
Phillip Thomas

At least those are the few players I think we could get who would fit in here...


This guy would not fit in here. He had a terrible week in senior bowl practice and is converting to the WR position. I would hate to waste a pick on him.


So now we throw away a guys entire collegiate career due to the fact that he struggled at the Senior Bowl? Mind you, these kids are all playing in different systems with different teammates with a weeks worth of practice. I've seen what Denard Robinson is capable of with the ball in his hands and he is electric.


No, we dont throw it away, we bypass it. Why do we need him? I would rather take a true WR who knows the position and has been playing it most of their career so the learning curve is less.

I think that he is going to end up like Brad Smith. I think that Shanahan is trying to stay away from these kind of players.


We could use an explosive kick returner so we don't risk injury to Richard Crawford who will most likely be starting for this team soon. If Denard can be had in the 5th where we have two picks than he is more than worth it.


Robinson apparently muffed four or five punts in practice. He doesn't have the experience to handle punts. That's spending a 5th on a serious gamble.


I think he has the talent to adjust and develop. I'm not even the biggest fan of Denard but his skills as a situational player seem very enticing. I wouldn't be heartbroken if we passed on him I just think he has a chance to become a good player.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
I think he has the talent to adjust and develop. I'm not even the biggest fan of Denard but his skills as a situational player seem very enticing. I wouldn't be heartbroken if we passed on him I just think he has a chance to become a good player.


Maybe so. However, consider this: how much work do you put into Denard Robinson at the expense of say an Aldrick Robinson? Or a Richard Crawford? There's only a finite amount of time in the day to work on plays to get things right, especially now with the limited number of practices in April, May, June, and July.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
i totally get what you are saying but we are talking about a 7th round pick. Almost all 7 round picks don't play a down in the NFL. So why not take a chance on a punter who may have pro bowl talent in the 7th round?

Sure, we could take a position player but most likely that player won't make the team.


I'm a bit surprised to see this coming from a fan of a team that has seen Rob Jackson, Maurice Hurt, and Richard Crawford become valuable role guys.

We've actually done quite well for ourselves finding gems in the seventh relative to the NFL as a whole.
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mike23md


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
i totally get what you are saying but we are talking about a 7th round pick. Almost all 7 round picks don't play a down in the NFL. So why not take a chance on a punter who may have pro bowl talent in the 7th round?

Sure, we could take a position player but most likely that player won't make the team.


I'm a bit surprised to see this coming from a fan of a team that has seen Rob Jackson, Maurice Hurt, and Richard Crawford become valuable role guys.

We've actually done quite well for ourselves finding gems in the seventh relative to the NFL as a whole.


Touche Woz. Thank you for backing up my point.

Kickers and Punters should not be drafted, they should go as UDFA because they are not an every down player, and I would rather take my chances on a player who is, then one who is not, when their only job is to kick a ball through goal posts or kick the ball as far and high downt he field as you can. We have found the kicker, that was not drafted, we just need to find that punter.

THe last time we drafted a punter, was Durant Brooks in the 6th round. And how did that work out? It didnt. He was replaced midway through the season.

Hell, if there is one sitting in FA that is say, 30 years old, pick him up. But by no means do you look the fool by drafting a punter. I think that is just as bad as drafting a KR/PR when they have NO other position to play.
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
i totally get what you are saying but we are talking about a 7th round pick. Almost all 7 round picks don't play a down in the NFL. So why not take a chance on a punter who may have pro bowl talent in the 7th round?

Sure, we could take a position player but most likely that player won't make the team.


I'm a bit surprised to see this coming from a fan of a team that has seen Rob Jackson, Maurice Hurt, and Richard Crawford become valuable role guys.

We've actually done quite well for ourselves finding gems in the seventh relative to the NFL as a whole.


Touche Woz. Thank you for backing up my point.

Kickers and Punters should not be drafted, they should go as UDFA because they are not an every down player, and I would rather take my chances on a player who is, then one who is not, when their only job is to kick a ball through goal posts or kick the ball as far and high downt he field as you can. We have found the kicker, that was not drafted, we just need to find that punter.

THe last time we drafted a punter, was Durant Brooks in the 6th round. And how did that work out? It didnt. He was replaced midway through the season.

Hell, if there is one sitting in FA that is say, 30 years old, pick him up. But by no means do you look the fool by drafting a punter. I think that is just as bad as drafting a KR/PR when they have NO other position to play.


So Chicago looks foolish for selecting Devin Hester?
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mike23md


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. I never thought he was that good anyway. Did he win them any rings? Did he do anything that actually meant something? He gets lost as a WR.

Look at Dante Hall. A WR who basically moved to a KR/PR position and he faded out like the rest of them.

Same with Ted Ginn Jr.

Brandon Banks.

Need I go on?

There are some that actually learn to play the position like Joshua Cribbs or Randall Cobb that actually benefit their team. But Devin Hester was not a WR to really pay attention to other than for go routes and seams.

And as a Kicker, you can kick it away from the return man to avoid his big plays. Its not something you have to spend hours game planning for. Its a quick fix and you move on.

I don't believe in wasting a roster spot for a position like KR/PR for them to do just that.

Just like the LS position. I think that C's should be able to long snap, and they used to some time ago, but teams wanted to go to a smaller frame guy like a TE since defenders are not allowed to line up over the LS.

Its a waste of a spot for depth. Period.
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Devin Hester was at the U, he was a corner....Im pretty sure people thought he was the second comming of Deion Sanders. He switched to wide out by the Bears because they were horrible at that position. That is a very different set of circumstances then Denard Robinson....
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