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Malik
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 2974
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 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| x0x wrote: | | BBIB wrote: | I was waiting for the sarcasm tag  |
People seem to mock the Montana comparison, but it is a fair comparison all things considered.
Prior to 1987, Montana had 2 Super Bowl Championships and 2 Super Bowl MVPs.
Yes, he had more productive regular season numbers, but considering his offense, he had not yet reached the pinnacle.
Then from 87-90, he racks up better numbers, wins two more Super Bowls, two league MVPs and is considered GOAT by the 1990 NFC Championship where if it were not for Leonard Marshall, Montana would most likely have 5 Championships, maybe more.
So Eli has a fair shot, but that's okay, he'll never touch a 3rd ring right?  |
Yeah it did help Montana's legacy, but he was ALSO one of the consensus best QBs in the league, I mean he had multiple All-Pros to his name before the last 2 Super Bowls. It's not that it's impossible for Eli to reach a 3rd ring, it's just his sporadic play has given EVERYONE enough reason to be highly skeptical of that premise. He's not even a lock for the playoffs year in and year out. How many people would genuinely be surprised if the Giants missed the playoffs 2 out of the next 4 years? |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41594
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Shockey1979 wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: |
Outside the top 30
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Statistically or subjectively? |
Subjectively - about where Aikman is
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GmenSeattle
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 8496
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| Malik wrote: | | Yeah it did help Montana's legacy, but he was ALSO one of the consensus best QBs in the league, I mean he had multiple All-Pros to his name before the last 2 Super Bowls. It's not that it's impossible for Eli to reach a 3rd ring, it's just his sporadic play has given EVERYONE enough reason to be highly skeptical of that premise. He's not even a lock for the playoffs year in and year out. How many people would genuinely be surprised if the Giants missed the playoffs 2 out of the next 4 years? |
The Giants missing the playoffs has more to do with the division they're in rather than the play of Eli. Swap the Giants with the Pats or Broncos and they make the playoffs easy every year too.
People can't sit in this thread and claim that Super Bowls are won by teams yet playoff appearances are achieved only through the play of the QB? C'mon man. Can't have it both ways.
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Shockey1979
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 18404
Location: RI/MA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | Shockey1979 wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: |
Outside the top 30
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Statistically or subjectively? |
Subjectively - about where Aikman is |
Ok because statistically he's on pace to finish at least top 10. Probably top 5 in all time stats. Obviously depending on what some of the other modern QB's do.
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ArrowheadRage58
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3550
Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| GmenSeattle wrote: | | Malik wrote: | | Yeah it did help Montana's legacy, but he was ALSO one of the consensus best QBs in the league, I mean he had multiple All-Pros to his name before the last 2 Super Bowls. It's not that it's impossible for Eli to reach a 3rd ring, it's just his sporadic play has given EVERYONE enough reason to be highly skeptical of that premise. He's not even a lock for the playoffs year in and year out. How many people would genuinely be surprised if the Giants missed the playoffs 2 out of the next 4 years? |
The Giants missing the playoffs has more to do with the division they're in rather than the play of Eli. Swap the Giants with the Pats or Broncos and they make the playoffs easy every year too.
People can't sit in this thread and claim that Super Bowls are won by teams yet playoff appearances are achieved only through the play of the QB? C'mon man. Can't have it both ways. |
The division was won by a team with a rookie QB, a horrible D, and not a whole lot on offense and also included a really bad 4 win Eagles team.
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| fortdetroit wrote: | | I wonder if people realize that Matt Cassel's 2 best seasons of his career are probably better than anything Alex Smith has ever done. |
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VikeADunn
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 5604
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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2-0 against Tom Brady in the Super Bowl. That's how I'll remember him
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| tylerdouglass wrote: | | VikeADunn, you're my hero. |
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NYGiantsman10
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 9709
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Brown_Mamba wrote: | I kind of feel like Joe Flacco will go down a similar path that Eli has gone down.
Both phenomenal playoff QB's, but both have had their share of inconsistency. |
I said to my dad while watching Joe play against the Pats that he reminded me of Eli. Unflappable, believes in himself, has some head scratching moments, but turns it up a notch in the playoffs somehow. Good comparison IMO
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HakeemTheDream
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Malik wrote: | | Yeah it did help Montana's legacy, but he was ALSO one of the consensus best QBs in the league, I mean he had multiple All-Pros to his name before the last 2 Super Bowls. It's not that it's impossible for Eli to reach a 3rd ring, it's just his sporadic play has given EVERYONE enough reason to be highly skeptical of that premise. He's not even a lock for the playoffs year in and year out. How many people would genuinely be surprised if the Giants missed the playoffs 2 out of the next 4 years? |
People make it seem like Eli is having seasons where he leads his team to a 6-10 record or something. He's been 8-8 or better in EVER SINGLE season since he began starting (2005). He gives this team an opportunity to make the playoffs every single season. Not much more you can ask from him considering he has played in arguably the most competitive division of the last decade and in a conference that has been getting and better each and every year.
I mean are you really going to hold it against him that he missed the playoffs with a 10-6 record in 2010 and had a 9-7 record this year, the same record with which the went on to win a Superbowl last year. Common theme in Giants teams who miss the playoffs: their defense implodes late in the year. In 2009 the defense gave up 40+ points in consecutive weeks (CAR, MIN) to end the year when they needed both wins to get into the playoffs. In 2010 the defense gave up 40+ to the Packers a week after blowing that gigantic lead against the Eagles when DJax returned the punt. This past year the Giants defense gives up 30+ against ATL and BAL, when they needed at least one win against the two. When the defense puts it together late in the year, the Giants make the playoffs. When they implode, the Giants are on the outside looking in. It's that simple.
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reckless123
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 5602
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| HakeemTheDream wrote: | | Malik wrote: | | Yeah it did help Montana's legacy, but he was ALSO one of the consensus best QBs in the league, I mean he had multiple All-Pros to his name before the last 2 Super Bowls. It's not that it's impossible for Eli to reach a 3rd ring, it's just his sporadic play has given EVERYONE enough reason to be highly skeptical of that premise. He's not even a lock for the playoffs year in and year out. How many people would genuinely be surprised if the Giants missed the playoffs 2 out of the next 4 years? |
People make it seem like Eli is having seasons where he leads his team to a 6-10 record or something. He's been 8-8 or better in EVER SINGLE season since he began starting (2005). He gives this team an opportunity to make the playoffs every single season. Not much more you can ask from him considering he has played in arguably the most competitive division of the last decade and in a conference that has been getting and better each and every year.
I mean are you really going to hold it against him that he missed the playoffs with a 10-6 record in 2010 and had a 9-7 record this year, the same record with which the went on to win a Superbowl last year. Common theme in Giants teams who miss the playoffs: their defense implodes late in the year. In 2009 the defense gave up 40+ points in consecutive weeks (CAR, MIN) to end the year when they needed both wins to get into the playoffs. In 2010 the defense gave up 40+ to the Packers a week after blowing that gigantic lead against the Eagles when DJax returned the punt. This past year the Giants defense gives up 30+ against ATL and BAL, when they needed at least one win against the two. When the defense puts it together late in the year, the Giants make the playoffs. When they implode, the Giants are on the outside looking in. It's that simple. |
All the while, the defense is a huge reason why the giants did not make the playoffs this year, Eli is also to blame. That 4 game stretch where he was terrible was a huge reason why we missed the playoffs. There were also injuries that played a huge role.
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HakeemTheDream
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| reckless123 wrote: | | All the while, the defense is a huge reason why the giants did not make the playoffs this year, Eli is also to blame. That 4 game stretch where he was terrible was a huge reason why we missed the playoffs. There were also injuries that played a huge role. |
All three played a fair role in this year's collapse, but the defense just stands out to me. Sure, Eli had a bad 3 game stretch, but they still beat Dallas and would have lost to Cincy whether Eli was on or not. That Steelers game is debatable, but they were the best pass defense in the league at the time. Also something to remember is that the Giants defense gave up 14 points in the 4th quarter that cost them the game. Eli's bad performances against ATL and BAL were essentially irrelevant because the Giants defense couldn't stop anyone or anything on those days. Those two 3rd and 19 conversions by BAL really epitomize the Giants defense this year. Couldn't get that stop when they needed it (DAL, @PHI, PIT, @WAS).
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lionslicer
Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | Shockey1979 wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: |
Outside the top 30
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Statistically or subjectively? |
Subjectively - about where Aikman is |
Name 29 quarterbacks better than Aikman.
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Ninersfan1984
Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| PurplePeterson wrote: | Eli is a hall of famer, he has 2 rings, enough said
To anybody who thinks that Eli is not a hall of famer, do you think he is Tony Romo or something? |
So is Ben Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer then because he has two rings? Rings are not always a good indication of a Hall of Famer |
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Ninersfan1984
Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| HakeemTheDream wrote: | | Malik wrote: | | Yeah it did help Montana's legacy, but he was ALSO one of the consensus best QBs in the league, I mean he had multiple All-Pros to his name before the last 2 Super Bowls. It's not that it's impossible for Eli to reach a 3rd ring, it's just his sporadic play has given EVERYONE enough reason to be highly skeptical of that premise. He's not even a lock for the playoffs year in and year out. How many people would genuinely be surprised if the Giants missed the playoffs 2 out of the next 4 years? |
People make it seem like Eli is having seasons where he leads his team to a 6-10 record or something. He's been 8-8 or better in EVER SINGLE season since he began starting (2005). He gives this team an opportunity to make the playoffs every single season. Not much more you can ask from him considering he has played in arguably the most competitive division of the last decade and in a conference that has been getting and better each and every year.
I mean are you really going to hold it against him that he missed the playoffs with a 10-6 record in 2010 and had a 9-7 record this year, the same record with which the went on to win a Superbowl last year. Common theme in Giants teams who miss the playoffs: their defense implodes late in the year. In 2009 the defense gave up 40+ points in consecutive weeks (CAR, MIN) to end the year when they needed both wins to get into the playoffs. In 2010 the defense gave up 40+ to the Packers a week after blowing that gigantic lead against the Eagles when DJax returned the punt. This past year the Giants defense gives up 30+ against ATL and BAL, when they needed at least one win against the two. When the defense puts it together late in the year, the Giants make the playoffs. When they implode, the Giants are on the outside looking in. It's that simple. |
So they have been average about every year and that is great how? Look at Eli's ints since 2005 he has thrown 15+ int 6 times including twice throwing over 20. How is that helping his team? |
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streetlight3989
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Ninersfan1984 wrote: | | PurplePeterson wrote: | Eli is a hall of famer, he has 2 rings, enough said
To anybody who thinks that Eli is not a hall of famer, do you think he is Tony Romo or something? |
So is Ben Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer then because he has two rings? Rings are not always a good indication of a Hall of Famer |
If one of them gets in the other will too. Their careers have taken a somewhat similar arch. They both have 2 SB rings (Eli has two MVPs, Ben deserved one), they both are considered "semi-elite" quarterbacks, they both play for winning organizations and don't have losing seasons, they both have very good career numbers so far, they both play well when the pressure is on, and they're pretty much the the consensus 5 and 6 ranked Quarterbacks in the league right now.
I think Ben and Eli will both be Hall of Famers. They still have a good five or six years left to pad their stats, but both of them are very close to canton even if they retired today. I wouldn't put it past either of them to win an MVP, string together another couple "Elite/semi-elite" years, or win another Super Bowl. I think some of those things will happen.
I know this thread is about Eli, but you can raise a lot of the same points about Ben's claim. When it all comes down to it, I think both Eli and Ben will be remembered as top 15 quarterbacks all time. |
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HakeemTheDream
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| Ninersfan1984 wrote: |
So they have been average about every year and that is great how? Look at Eli's ints since 2005 he has thrown 15+ int 6 times including twice throwing over 20. How is that helping his team? |
Eli's career record since 2005 is 85-54. 31 games over .500. So much for average...
Eli is a risk-taking QB. It's going to lead to interceptions. Want to know another fairly successful QB who threw a lot of INTs? Brett Favre. He still ended up being pretty good. Eli had one year where he played conservatively, in 2008. Resulted in the team tying the record for least turnovers in a season (13). If he wants to limit turnovers, he can do that. But the Giants need him to win games, which involves making risky throws.
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