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Play4Blood
Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 129
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 Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| holyghost wrote: | | Play4Blood wrote: | I understand the concept of clinging to the past and pointing to past glories. Hell, my grandfather fought under Patton in France, came home with shrapnel in his knee and a Purple Heart. To a lot of people, no matter what he did after that, he'd be considered a hero, a great man, a role model, or whatever praise you want to give a wounded WWII soldier. Doesn't change the fact he was a drunken womanizer and dirty SOB in his later years.
No man can be judged by his greatest accomplishment. Past glories can easily be tainted. Al tainted the hell out of his legacy the last quarter century. To deny that is to admit that you live in your own reality. |
It's true and it's sad. I cried when he died, especially when a poster on here said he told his daughter the Raiders died that day. But he had it mostly wrong for the last 25 years, and more than anything with his GM duties. The guys he got, he paid, the team he assembled, it was a mess built the wrong way. I barely remember the winning days, and it's great to have a look into that past. But it's long gone and I'd like to see this team win again. |
I had been wishing death on the old fool for a decade. I was surprised to find out he had actually passed (I figured the dude was a vampire or some such), but it excited me. I was more optimistic about the team that day than at any point since the 2002 AFC Championship game. Pretty sure I quoted MLK that day, too.
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macklemore
Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Play4Blood wrote: | | holyghost wrote: | | Play4Blood wrote: | I understand the concept of clinging to the past and pointing to past glories. Hell, my grandfather fought under Patton in France, came home with shrapnel in his knee and a Purple Heart. To a lot of people, no matter what he did after that, he'd be considered a hero, a great man, a role model, or whatever praise you want to give a wounded WWII soldier. Doesn't change the fact he was a drunken womanizer and dirty SOB in his later years.
No man can be judged by his greatest accomplishment. Past glories can easily be tainted. Al tainted the hell out of his legacy the last quarter century. To deny that is to admit that you live in your own reality. |
It's true and it's sad. I cried when he died, especially when a poster on here said he told his daughter the Raiders died that day. But he had it mostly wrong for the last 25 years, and more than anything with his GM duties. The guys he got, he paid, the team he assembled, it was a mess built the wrong way. I barely remember the winning days, and it's great to have a look into that past. But it's long gone and I'd like to see this team win again. |
I had been wishing death on the old fool for a decade. I was surprised to find out he had actually passed (I figured the dude was a vampire or some such), but it excited me. I was more optimistic about the team that day than at any point since the 2002 AFC Championship game. Pretty sure I quoted MLK that day, too. |
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24592
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| Play4Blood wrote: | | holyghost wrote: | | Play4Blood wrote: | I understand the concept of clinging to the past and pointing to past glories. Hell, my grandfather fought under Patton in France, came home with shrapnel in his knee and a Purple Heart. To a lot of people, no matter what he did after that, he'd be considered a hero, a great man, a role model, or whatever praise you want to give a wounded WWII soldier. Doesn't change the fact he was a drunken womanizer and dirty SOB in his later years.
No man can be judged by his greatest accomplishment. Past glories can easily be tainted. Al tainted the hell out of his legacy the last quarter century. To deny that is to admit that you live in your own reality. |
It's true and it's sad. I cried when he died, especially when a poster on here said he told his daughter the Raiders died that day. But he had it mostly wrong for the last 25 years, and more than anything with his GM duties. The guys he got, he paid, the team he assembled, it was a mess built the wrong way. I barely remember the winning days, and it's great to have a look into that past. But it's long gone and I'd like to see this team win again. |
I had been wishing death on the old fool for a decade. I was surprised to find out he had actually passed (I figured the dude was a vampire or some such), but it excited me. I was more optimistic about the team that day than at any point since the 2002 AFC Championship game. Pretty sure I quoted MLK that day, too. |
Alright, I'd like to take a step back from that I like you comment a little bit here.
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12572
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| Play4Blood wrote: | | holyghost wrote: | | Play4Blood wrote: | I understand the concept of clinging to the past and pointing to past glories. Hell, my grandfather fought under Patton in France, came home with shrapnel in his knee and a Purple Heart. To a lot of people, no matter what he did after that, he'd be considered a hero, a great man, a role model, or whatever praise you want to give a wounded WWII soldier. Doesn't change the fact he was a drunken womanizer and dirty SOB in his later years.
No man can be judged by his greatest accomplishment. Past glories can easily be tainted. Al tainted the hell out of his legacy the last quarter century. To deny that is to admit that you live in your own reality. |
It's true and it's sad. I cried when he died, especially when a poster on here said he told his daughter the Raiders died that day. But he had it mostly wrong for the last 25 years, and more than anything with his GM duties. The guys he got, he paid, the team he assembled, it was a mess built the wrong way. I barely remember the winning days, and it's great to have a look into that past. But it's long gone and I'd like to see this team win again. |
I had been wishing death on the old fool for a decade. I was surprised to find out he had actually passed (I figured the dude was a vampire or some such), but it excited me. I was more optimistic about the team that day than at any point since the 2002 AFC Championship game. Pretty sure I quoted MLK that day, too. |
dam you cant be a raider. al was the dam raiders. show some respect. i wish you would say that in the middle of the black hole dressed in all raider gear.
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| green24 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you |
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THE MAD STORK
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Play4Blood wrote: | | holyghost wrote: | | Play4Blood wrote: | I understand the concept of clinging to the past and pointing to past glories. Hell, my grandfather fought under Patton in France, came home with shrapnel in his knee and a Purple Heart. To a lot of people, no matter what he did after that, he'd be considered a hero, a great man, a role model, or whatever praise you want to give a wounded WWII soldier. Doesn't change the fact he was a drunken womanizer and dirty SOB in his later years.
No man can be judged by his greatest accomplishment. Past glories can easily be tainted. Al tainted the hell out of his legacy the last quarter century. To deny that is to admit that you live in your own reality. |
It's true and it's sad. I cried when he died, especially when a poster on here said he told his daughter the Raiders died that day. But he had it mostly wrong for the last 25 years, and more than anything with his GM duties. The guys he got, he paid, the team he assembled, it was a mess built the wrong way. I barely remember the winning days, and it's great to have a look into that past. But it's long gone and I'd like to see this team win again. |
I had been wishing death on the old fool for a decade. I was surprised to find out he had actually passed (I figured the dude was a vampire or some such), but it excited me. I was more optimistic about the team that day than at any point since the 2002 AFC Championship game. Pretty sure I quoted MLK that day, too. |
dam you cant be a raider. al was the dam raiders. show some respect. i wish you would say that in the middle of the black hole dressed in all raider gear. |
yah......whether or not thats how you feel, you need to show a little more respect. I know al wasnt fit to run an organization like he once was, but he is and always will be a pioneer, a innovator, a maverick, and did it his way and gave a dam what other people thought. He was the raiders to me, and reguardless of how I felt about the decisions he made I was behind him because of my respect for him. Theres no one who wanted to win worse than he did, and I was proud that he represented the team I love. The ship had been going down bad with bad organizational moves but I didnt mind standing by him because I knew he was doing everything in his power to win. |
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Pozzi
Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 210
Location: Carson City, NV
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| Play4Blood wrote: | | holyghost wrote: | | Play4Blood wrote: | I understand the concept of clinging to the past and pointing to past glories. Hell, my grandfather fought under Patton in France, came home with shrapnel in his knee and a Purple Heart. To a lot of people, no matter what he did after that, he'd be considered a hero, a great man, a role model, or whatever praise you want to give a wounded WWII soldier. Doesn't change the fact he was a drunken womanizer and dirty SOB in his later years.
No man can be judged by his greatest accomplishment. Past glories can easily be tainted. Al tainted the hell out of his legacy the last quarter century. To deny that is to admit that you live in your own reality. |
It's true and it's sad. I cried when he died, especially when a poster on here said he told his daughter the Raiders died that day. But he had it mostly wrong for the last 25 years, and more than anything with his GM duties. The guys he got, he paid, the team he assembled, it was a mess built the wrong way. I barely remember the winning days, and it's great to have a look into that past. But it's long gone and I'd like to see this team win again. |
I had been wishing death on the old fool for a decade. I was surprised to find out he had actually passed (I figured the dude was a vampire or some such), but it excited me. I was more optimistic about the team that day than at any point since the 2002 AFC Championship game. Pretty sure I quoted MLK that day, too. |
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7231
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Play4Blood wrote: | | holyghost wrote: | | Play4Blood wrote: | I understand the concept of clinging to the past and pointing to past glories. Hell, my grandfather fought under Patton in France, came home with shrapnel in his knee and a Purple Heart. To a lot of people, no matter what he did after that, he'd be considered a hero, a great man, a role model, or whatever praise you want to give a wounded WWII soldier. Doesn't change the fact he was a drunken womanizer and dirty SOB in his later years.
No man can be judged by his greatest accomplishment. Past glories can easily be tainted. Al tainted the hell out of his legacy the last quarter century. To deny that is to admit that you live in your own reality. |
It's true and it's sad. I cried when he died, especially when a poster on here said he told his daughter the Raiders died that day. But he had it mostly wrong for the last 25 years, and more than anything with his GM duties. The guys he got, he paid, the team he assembled, it was a mess built the wrong way. I barely remember the winning days, and it's great to have a look into that past. But it's long gone and I'd like to see this team win again. |
I had been wishing death on the old fool for a decade. I was surprised to find out he had actually passed (I figured the dude was a vampire or some such), but it excited me. I was more optimistic about the team that day than at any point since the 2002 AFC Championship game. Pretty sure I quoted MLK that day, too. |
I can't say I was wishing death on anyone but I knew the team would be better once he relinquished control of it and we all knew only one thing was going to cause that to happen sooooo...........
I definitely w/ you about the optimism also. I haven't spoke so highly of this team in quite some time. Yeah, it's a crappy thing to say but anyone who denies it has clouded judgment. There's no way you could realistically look at this team and say "Al is doing a great job these days!!!!" No. It's not possible...
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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LivingLegendWFC
Joined: 28 Oct 2009
Posts: 10956
Location: BP On The Geno Sig
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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If they believe Smith is a franchise QB then it makes a ton of sense, but I don't want to draft a QB just for the sake of drafting one as we have bigger problems then QB. Smith has franchise potential to me so I wouldn't be upset with the pick.
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bitty
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 2985
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| JTagg7754 wrote: | | Play4Blood wrote: | | holyghost wrote: | | Play4Blood wrote: | I understand the concept of clinging to the past and pointing to past glories. Hell, my grandfather fought under Patton in France, came home with shrapnel in his knee and a Purple Heart. To a lot of people, no matter what he did after that, he'd be considered a hero, a great man, a role model, or whatever praise you want to give a wounded WWII soldier. Doesn't change the fact he was a drunken womanizer and dirty SOB in his later years.
No man can be judged by his greatest accomplishment. Past glories can easily be tainted. Al tainted the hell out of his legacy the last quarter century. To deny that is to admit that you live in your own reality. |
It's true and it's sad. I cried when he died, especially when a poster on here said he told his daughter the Raiders died that day. But he had it mostly wrong for the last 25 years, and more than anything with his GM duties. The guys he got, he paid, the team he assembled, it was a mess built the wrong way. I barely remember the winning days, and it's great to have a look into that past. But it's long gone and I'd like to see this team win again. |
I had been wishing death on the old fool for a decade. I was surprised to find out he had actually passed (I figured the dude was a vampire or some such), but it excited me. I was more optimistic about the team that day than at any point since the 2002 AFC Championship game. Pretty sure I quoted MLK that day, too. |
I can't say I was wishing death on anyone but I knew the team would be better once he relinquished control of it and we all knew only one thing was going to cause that to happen sooooo...........
I definitely w/ you about the optimism also. I haven't spoke so highly of this team in quite some time. Yeah, it's a crappy thing to say but anyone who denies it has clouded judgment. There's no way you could realistically look at this team and say "Al is doing a great job these days!!!!" No. It's not possible... |
+1
I loved and hated the man at the same time. |
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Nodisrespect
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2908
Location: in the present
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry i can't join in on the Al Davis poop party, i'm a realist and know we needed change. I used to criticise Al all the time, but i hope you guys aren't dancing on his grave. He did put 3 lombardi's in our trophy case and developed our team colors and identity, who is to say this team would even still exist if Al had'nt come along and pulled us out of the obscurity, this team was in even worse shape when he acquired it in the 60's as the seniors.
He pushed the entire NFL forward, show some respect and let the dead lie. And everytime some one criticizes the team we don't need to poop on Al he's been gone for almost 2 seasons after next year there's no more blaming Al, just leave Al alone. We have to take the good with the bad and stop rationalizing failure with the deeds of men no longer in charge at some point.
Al didn't even trade for the biggest contract(Carson Palmer)on our team, he didn't do that trade, that was Hue and Mark Davis. |
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Play4Blood
Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:32 am Post subject: |
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"Show some respect."
Forget that. I'd rather tell the truth and have it out there. The man outlived his usefulness. It happens. It will happen to most of us one day.
The truth is ice cold, and I promise you can see my breath when I speak.
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4570
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Play4Blood wrote: | "Show some respect."
Forget that. I'd rather tell the truth and have it out there. The man outlived his usefulness. It happens. It will happen to most of us one day.
The truth is ice cold, and I promise you can see my breath when I speak. |
Yea but there is a big difference between looking forward to the day where someone else takes over and wishing death upon someone. Just because someone "outlives their usefulness" doesn't mean they should kick the bucket. I was sick of the was he was running things and understood he would have never stepped down on his own, but I still wasn't hoping for him to die.
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Play4Blood
Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:42 am Post subject: |
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The only way for someone new to take over was for Al to become one with the earth. The people wishing for him to hire a GM and be a hands off owner just weren't being realistic. I prefer realism to fantasy, but I'm funny that way.
And, no. Outliving your usefulness doesn't mean you should die, necessarily. But it does mean you need to get the hell out of other peoples' way.
If, like Al, you become incapable of functioning at the capacity that your job demands, it's time to go.
"Yea but there is a big difference between looking forward to the day where someone else takes over and wishing death upon someone."
No, there's not. None at all, save for the latter actually recognizing the means to the end. Nothing wrong with that. What other realistic outcome was there?
There was no one who could fire the guy. The league isn't set up that way. He owned the controlling shares of the team. If he wanted to run the team into the ground, that was his right and that's exactly what he did. His demise was the only recourse. Having determined that, I saw no other outcome to reasonably hope for.
People are far too uptight about this sort of thing. Wishing for someone to die does not have any impact on when or how they will die. Not even if you make that wish on your birthday. Not even if you blow out all the candles at the same instant that a shooting star zips through the night sky. Not even if you're squeezing some little prayer beads in one hand while sacrificing a bull with the other. Real life doesn't work that way, so there's literally nothing to get uptight about.
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Bone_Collector
Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 245
Location: So. Cal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Play4Blood wrote: | The only way for someone new to take over was for Al to become one with the earth. The people wishing for him to hire a GM and be a hands off owner just weren't being realistic. I prefer realism to fantasy, but I'm funny that way.
And, no. Outliving your usefulness doesn't mean you should die, necessarily. But it does mean you need to get the hell out of other peoples' way.
If, like Al, you become incapable of functioning at the capacity that your job demands, it's time to go.
"Yea but there is a big difference between looking forward to the day where someone else takes over and wishing death upon someone."
No, there's not. None at all, save for the latter actually recognizing the means to the end. Nothing wrong with that. What other realistic outcome was there?
There was no one who could fire the guy. The league isn't set up that way. He owned the controlling shares of the team. If he wanted to run the team into the ground, that was his right and that's exactly what he did. His demise was the only recourse. Having determined that, I saw no other outcome to reasonably hope for.
People are far too uptight about this sort of thing. Wishing for someone to die does not have any impact on when or how they will die. Not even if you make that wish on your birthday. Not even if you blow out all the candles at the same instant that a shooting star zips through the night sky. Not even if you're squeezing some little prayer beads in one hand while sacrificing a bull with the other. Real life doesn't work that way, so there's literally nothing to get uptight about. |
Remember that this is just a game.
Life>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>than any game.
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NickButera
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Posts: 5016
Location: Nevada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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It could very well be something to get uptight about. Wishing death upon someone is a very cruel attitude. And here we are talking about the man who created and cemented the Raider image. So naturally people are going to get uptight when you take a hardline stance that is as cruel as that. It's not against the rules, but it is certainly something that you should probably tread lightly. This is a bumpy and sensitive subject in a Raider forum.
We try to promote respectful discussion here, and I'm certainly glad we've all been able to respectfully disagree. I was half expecting a certain storm consisting of brown colored smelly, mushy objects to reign down from heavens above.
This is just a disturbing subject and not necessarily about football. Both sides have made points, so let's move on from this and get back to football.
Thanks.
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