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Mayhew suggests major roster overhaul
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody has yet to show 1 solid player past round 1

Not one.

Don't list injury plagued Delmas either
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Nnivolcm


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
Nobody has yet to show 1 solid player past round 1

Not one.

Don't list injury plagued Delmas either


Ha! I've done so in past threads and you've just denied that they were any good.

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on you again.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Nobody has yet to show 1 solid player past round 1

Not one.

Don't list injury plagued Delmas either


Ha! I've done so in past threads and you've just denied that they were any good.

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on you again.



Like I said yet to show anything good.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
Nobody has yet to show 1 solid player past round 1

Not one.

Don't list injury plagued Delmas either

SLH. Leshoure. He traded late round picks for Chris Houston, Corey Williams and Rob Sims.

Is that really the barometer, though? We've had quite a few 1st round picks... why should they all be disregarded?

Your logic lacks consistency. If you're going to claim he "hasn't done jack" based on the 2012 record, you have to admit that he clearly has "done jack" based on the 2011 record. You can't have it both ways. (Well, you'll argue - poorly - that you can, but everyone will just turn and walk away.)

Try to be consistent.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Nobody has yet to show 1 solid player past round 1

Not one.

Don't list injury plagued Delmas either

SLH. Leshoure. He traded late round picks for Chris Houston, Corey Williams and Rob Sims.

Is that really the barometer, though? We've had quite a few 1st round picks... why should they all be disregarded?

Your logic lacks consistency. If you're going to claim he "hasn't done jack" based on the 2012 record, you have to admit that he clearly has "done jack" based on the 2011 record. You can't have it both ways. (Well, you'll argue - poorly - that you can, but everyone will just turn and walk away.)

Try to be consistent.


I didn't base it soley on 2012. Fail on you for assuming that.

In his entire tenure he has done squat.

Leshoure? He hasn't proven anything. His YPC is pathetic.

He has potential.


The rest u listed?

Yea still waiting on a list they are all avg at best
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
I didn't base it soley on 2012. Fail on you for assuming that.

In his entire tenure he has done squat.

How can you claim that, based on 4 wins in 2012, Mayhew has "done squat", while ignoring the fact that he was instrumental in piecing together the team that won 10 games in 2011? That's... just...

... bad.
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ahoda


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DetFan, you are too negative lately man. I think you need to take a few days off from the site and relax.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuhPLEX wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
LionsFan630 wrote:
Yeah it's not like he's gonna have much of a choice. With the cap situation there has to be an overhaul.


Problem is now he is getting this out there to make it seem like he is making the choice to make the change.

Fact is his hand is forced.


Now when change happens he can say look guys we went 4-12 and I fixed the roster. In reality was we went 4-12 and the salary cap and bad contracts made us fix the roster


Given the rough circumstances with the cap, if he can manage to improve our team wouldn't that be more to his credit?


I guess, but we can't lose sight of the fact he was instrumental in creating the issue in the first place.

From my perspective its more like did he have a complete plan and know how he was going to get the Lions out of the mess he created.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuhPLEX wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
lions on top wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
LionsFan630 wrote:
Yeah it's not like he's gonna have much of a choice. With the cap situation there has to be an overhaul.


Problem is now he is getting this out there to make it seem like he is making the choice to make the change.

Fact is his hand is forced.


Now when change happens he can say look guys we went 4-12 and I fixed the roster. In reality was we went 4-12 and the salary cap and bad contracts made us fix the roster



Given the rough circumstances with the cap, if he can manage to impurove our team wouldn't that be more to his credit?


I am not debating that. I am saying this isnt exactly his idea to overturn roster.

He has ZERO choice but to actually do it

Well not necessarily, like lions on top said if we can manage to restructure some of these contracts and get rid of some of the bad contracts then we will have space to move. Nonetheless, I think you're being too rough on Mayhew. Part of talking to the media is stating the obvious


Too rough on him?

He hasnt done jack and somehow everyone thinks he is good.

Outside of the safe picks in round 1 (minus Best which was Schwartz) what has Mayhew really done?

Jack

Our roster has more talent on the team then I have witnessed in my lifetime (I'm 22)


Not even close if u are saying in past 22 years

This does not mean he has done anything

What has he done?

There are no real contributors past round 1

Couple veteran FA but not much else

Taking a 0-16 team to 10-6 with an astounding about of roster turnover is worth something. As I said in the original post we definitely got lucky last year but he's assembled a talented team.




You keep saying that but actually have not shown it

Sorry I don't see it at all.

take off the goggles, then


Take off the goggles?

I guess we must be wearing goggles because we are critical of a 4-12 team.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Nobody has yet to show 1 solid player past round 1

Not one.

Don't list injury plagued Delmas either

SLH. Leshoure. He traded late round picks for Chris Houston, Corey Williams and Rob Sims.

Is that really the barometer, though? We've had quite a few 1st round picks... why should they all be disregarded?

Your logic lacks consistency. If you're going to claim he "hasn't done jack" based on the 2012 record, you have to admit that he clearly has "done jack" based on the 2011 record. You can't have it both ways. (Well, you'll argue - poorly - that you can, but everyone will just turn and walk away.)

Try to be consistent.


Mayhew was hired to turn around a failing franchise. He had a head start because he was already a senior member of the franchise to begin with.

The teams performance was slow to improve notching 2 and 6 wins in his first two seasons. In the third season the team won 10 games which was what the organization was waiting for. Many on these pages claimed the team over achieved yet now want to give Mayhew credit for this amazing turn around.

This year the team faltered, BADLY. Many want to diminish this result by clinging to a skewed points margin where on numerous occasions the team was down significantly but came back when teams were in prevent.

What bothers me the most is the willingness of everyone including Mayhew to accept status quo. All he's done is hire someone to build an in house evaluation system. That's only four years late. It was obvious from the start the Lions ability to sign and draft talent was insufficient. Rather than remove people who are not achieving success Mayhew's solution is to bring in additional people. He hasn't removed the deadwood from the player personnel and scouting department. On the field the only changes were coaches whose contracts were up walked.

Wow. That's a remarkable lack of action from a management staff who have fielded such a poor product.

There are some amazing parallels between FORD and the Lions. FORD didn't start its turnaround until WCF was removed from any part of the decision making process and the BOD fought and won to change the voting rights associated with the corporations shares.

If all of you are supportive of Mayhew and the coaching staff that's fine but I'm in a show me mode as I believe detfan is as well. Until such time as the Lions consistently field a good product I won't be satisfied. I've listened to the excuses for over a decade now and that's all they are is excuses.

It's no different than all the folks that defended Marinelli during his time here.
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Rockcity


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

building a foundation of wr/rbs will be his undoing.. i agree with diehard im tried of the excuses. Apparently we need to take a very different appoarch. Its so odd to me that he wittnessed millens undoing yet seems to follow the same approach..
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahoda wrote:
DetFan, you are too negative lately man. I think you need to take a few days off from the site and relax.


Or you take a few days off so you don't see it or ignore it. It's my right to be critical of this pathetic regime
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SadLionFan00


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mayhew hasnt been an amazing drafter, but he hasnt had a 1st round bust sans Best, and his rate of success for guys contributing beyond round one is about where the average is for most teams.

Lets have a look back at some of his drafts:

2009
Matt Stafford - given
Brandon Pettigrew - Iffy. Grew was a pretty damn good TE prospect, and has had his moments, here. If he could figure how not to drop the ball at the most inoppritune times, he would be favored a lot more on this board. But, without a good TE on the team, adding a guy like Grew for our new QB was logical.
Louis Delmas - Great pick, if not for the injuries. Didnt have a history in college. Unfortunate.
Deandre Levy - Awesome pick. Valued late, but the Lions saw something in him, and they were right. He is doing great for a 3rd round guy that was projected to go way later.
Derrick Williams - Pick made sense in theory, didnt pan out. Poor scouting, there.
Sammie Lee Hill - Another great pick. Adds a lot to the team as a big DT. Fantastic value from a 4th rounder.

The rest of the picks turned into nothing.

2010
Ndamukong Suh - Obvious pick, again.
Jahvid Best - Big risk, looked like it might work out. If he could have avoided concussions, would have been a great pick. But, bust.
Amari Spievay - Looked like he might be able to become a starter, but now seems to be a backup at best. Poor pick.
Jason Fox - Another injury risk, but worth it in the 4th round. He looked like a franchise caliber LT at one point. Jury is still out. Hopefully he and Reiff can be bookends on the line.
Willie Young - Amazing production from a 7th rounder.
Tim Toone - nothing. Mr. Irrelevant.

2011
Nick Fairly - BPA, kinda. IMO should have gone with Robert Quinn. But, Fairley is a very good player and getting better. Its more difficult to get a good DT than it is to get a good DE, but right now, we could really use a good young DE under contract.
Titus Young - Ugh. Still hope, I guess.
LeShoure - Great value trading back up to get him. The achilles was just terribly unfortunate. Cant fault Mayhew for that happening. Jury is still out on him.
Hogue and Culbreath - not crap.

2012
Riley Reiff - Solid BPA pick. A move aimed more at the long-term, which was the theme of this draft.
Ryan Broyles - Another risk on an injured player, looks like another backfire. Looked like a great pick for a bit, there. Hopefully he can come back strong, but I doubt it.
Bently, Greenwood, Green - All showed potential. Statistically, you would have to think at least one develops into a good starter.
Lewis, Whitehad, Lewis - Kinda funny we got two guys from the same college with the same last name. Anyway, none of them showed anything. Jury is still out on Ronnell Lewis and Whitehead because they were raw, but Travis Lewis doesnt have a whole lot of potential. Hoping he could go back to his play when he was a 1st round pick candidate, but didnt happen.


No GM is perfect, but as far as scouting goes, the only gaffes we saw we with Derrick Williams and Spievay (considering guys in the 1st 3 rounds, only. Its a crap shoot after that). Other than that, the real fault with Mayhew has been taking chances on injury risks (Best, Broyles), character issues (Young) and some back luck (LeShoure, Delmas).

Mayhew can take a giant leap forward as a drafter if he takes smarter risks. Cant be going after guys with concussion history, freshly torn ACLs, and guys that character that hurt the team. Almost every early pick he has made showed promise, and the reasons they havent panned out, for the most part, arent because they couldnt transition their game, but because of the reasons I put earlier.

He has also found a couple of late round contributors (SLH, Willie Young) and made some really good picks (Levy, Reiff).

This years draft will be very telling on the direction of the team, and will tell us if Mayhew has learned from his mistakes.
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Last edited by SadLionFan00 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ahoda


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
ahoda wrote:
DetFan, you are too negative lately man. I think you need to take a few days off from the site and relax.


Or you take a few days off so you don't see it or ignore it. It's my right to be critical of this pathetic regime


I take plenty of days off, and when I come back, it's the same thing. You being all pissy and bent out of shape. I hope you have a life outside of the Lions because you're way too upset and bitter over a game.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SadLionFan00 wrote:
Mayhew hasnt been an amazing drafter, but he hasnt had a 1st round bust sans Best, and his rate of success for guys contributing beyond round one is about where the average is for most teams.

Lets have a look back at some of his drafts:

2009
Matt Stafford - given
Brandon Pettigrew - Iffy. Grew was a pretty damn good TE prospect, and has had his moments, here. If he could figure how not to drop the ball at the most inoppritune times, he would be favored a lot more on this board. But, without a good TE on the team, adding a guy like Grew for our new QB was logical.
Louis Delmas - Great pick, if not for the injuries. Didnt have a history in college. Unfortunate.
Deandre Levy - Awesome pick. Valued late, but the Lions saw something in him, and they were right. He is doing great for a 3rd round guy that was projected to go way later.
Derrick Williams - Pick made sense in theory, didnt pan out. Poor scouting, there.
Sammie Lee Hill - Another great pick. Adds a lot to the team as a big DT. Fantastic value from a 4th rounder.

The rest of the picks turned into nothing.

2010
Ndamukong Suh - Obvious pick, again.
Jahvid Best - Big risk, looked like it might work out. If he could have avoided concussions, would have been a great pick. But, bust.
Amari Spievay - Looked like he might be able to become a starter, but now seems to be a backup at best. Poor pick.
Jason Fox - Another injury risk, but worth it in the 4th round. He looked like a franchise caliber LT at one point. Jury is still out. Hopefully he and Reiff can be bookends on the line.
Willie Young - Amazing production from a 7th rounder.
Tim Toone - nothing. Mr. Irrelevant.

2011
Nick Fairly - BPA, kinda. IMO should have gone with Robert Quinn. But, Fairley is a very good player and getting better. Its more difficult to get a good DT than it is to get a good DE, but right now, we could really use a good young DE under contract.
Titus Young - Ugh. Still hope, I guess.
LeShoure - Great value trading back up to get him. The achilles was just terribly unfortunate. Cant fault Mayhew for that happening. Jury is still out on him.
Hogue and Culbreath - not crap.

2012
Riley Reiff - Solid BPA pick. A move aimed more at the long-term, which was the theme of this draft.
Ryan Broyles - Another risk on an injured player, looks like another backfire. Looked like a great pick for a bit, there. Hopefully he can come back strong, but I doubt it.
Bently, Greenwood, Green - All showed potential. Statistically, you would have to think at least one develops into a good starter.
Lewis, Whitehad, Lewis - Kinda funny we got two guys from the same college with the same last name. Anyway, none of them showed anything. Jury is still out on Ronnell Lewis and Whitehead because they were raw, but Travis Lewis doesnt have a whole lot of potential. Hoping he could go back to his play when he was a 1st round pick candidate, but didnt happen.


No GM is perfect, but as far as scouting goes, the only gaffes we saw we with Derrick Williams and Spievay (considering guys in the 1st 3 rounds, only. Its a crap shoot after that). Other than that, the real fault with Mayhew has been taking chances on injury risks (Best, Broyles), character issues (Young) and some back luck (LeShoure, Delmas).

Mayhew can take a giant leap forward as a drafter if he takes smarter risks. Cant be going after guys with concussion history, freshly torn ACLs, and guys that character that hurt the team. Almost every early pick he has made showed promise, and the reasons they havent panned out, for the most part, arent because they couldnt transition their game, but because of the reasons I put earlier.

He has also found a couple of late round contributors (SLH, Willie Young) and made some really good picks (Levy, Reiff).

This years draft will be very telling on the direction of the team, and will tell us if Mayhew has learned from his mistakes.



That is my point. Beyond first round they have failed to do much. He is first round good but that is more about it being obvious with a high pick or a good talent falling in his lap.
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