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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StLunatic88 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
Before anybody starts w/ but it's america's game and London isn't blah, blah, blah. They love this game internationally too, don't think they don't. Look how many Brits, Aussie's, & Kiwi's we have who come to this site everyday to talk football. And I for one would love to see the London Knights. Put em in the AFC East so its Knights vs Pats twice a year. Scheduling wise, they get their home/away scheduled in 4 game blocks. 4 games at home, then away, rinse repeat. Every team that has to go to London gets their bye scheduled for the week afterward, just like know. It's not really the logistics problem everyone makes it out to be.
They love it as a Novelty right now, they get it one time per year with atleast one very good team coming over. What happens when they get a crappy expansion team who is winning 4-6 games per year for the next half decade? You think they wont get fed up with that, with something that isnt even "their sport"?

Not to mention it would be a draft & free agent Nightmare, players will not want to go over there, 21-23 year old college players wont want anything to do with moving to London (atleast not the ones that matter and can afford to hold out) and then 25-28 year old free agents that are just starting families are going to want to uproot to move to a new continent?

There are so many more factors than just the logistical of getting teams back an forth for games. Playing on Thrusday nights is causing players problems, how do you think constantly flying internationally will affect the product on the field?
You don't think young men would enjoy living in one of the worlds best cities w/ everything you could possibly ask for? Why? If we can get players to live in GB, Cleveland, Detroit, etc... why couldn't we get those players to live in a MUCH better, first class city like London?. I guarantee you, there would be no shortage of players willing to go live a few years in London.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
silus wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Los Angeles and the NFL can't just create a new team? College football is bigger than its ever been so the number of quality players is enough to support another team. Hell, maybe 3 more teams.


33 would be an awkward number for NFL teams. The question isn't "why can't we create a new team for LA?" it is "Who would be the OTHER team to even the number out?" San Antonio? Portland? Toronto?

LA was all but slated to get the 32nd team, but the investors in place didn't have their act together; There were two or three groups, all haggling over location, naming rights, pricing, etc. Houston businessman Bob McNair said he wanted to be considered for a team for Houston, the NFL giggled and said "Ok, cut us a $700,000,000 check - we'll call it an application fee," and figured that was the end of that. A few days later, they got a check from McNair for the amount of $700,000,000 along with a promise to fund a stadium out of his own pocket. The NFL looked over the franchise plans, looked at the $700,000,000 check, looked at the stadium blueprints (at the time, the first NFL stadium with a retractable roof) looked at the $700,000,000 check, looked at the competetive landscape of Houston, looked at the $700,000,000 check, wondered if Jerry Jones would get upset at the thought of losing the Houston market, looked at the $700,000,000 check...

...and now, 10 years later we have the AFC South Champion Houston Texans. Very Happy
I think if you go the Expansion route you have to add at least 4 teams, 1 being LA and 1 being London. Maybe a San Antonio team and maybe a 2nd LA team. Before anybody starts w/ but it's america's game and London isn't blah, blah, blah. They love this game internationally too, don't think they don't. Look how many Brits, Aussie's, & Kiwi's we have who come to this site everyday to talk football. And I for one would love to see the London Knights. Put em in the AFC East so its Knights vs Pats twice a year. Scheduling wise, they get their home/away scheduled in 4 game blocks. 4 games at home, then away, rinse repeat. Every team that has to go to London gets their bye scheduled for the week afterward, just like know. It's not really the logistics problem everyone makes it out to be.


While we do love the NFL, over here in the UK, I still think a London team is less than a sensible idea. Because of the many things we love about the NFL, one of them is the team each of us has chosen to follow.

I don't see many people dropping their team just to start supporting the London Knights (which would be a good name, I admit). They'd have to attract a whole new audience who would actually be invested in following that team, or they'd have no real basis of support or source of revenue in this country. And because of the regionalism in the UK, there are plenty of people who wouldn't be interested in a London team, regardless of whether they were new to the sport or not.

If the NFL were to expand, I think they'd be wiser to look within the US borders for candidate areas. L.A, Las Vegas, Portland, Utah, Oklahoma, New Mexico.
Anywhere you are talking about expansion you have the same problem. Ex: Some Houston fans had become Titans fans b/c it was their franchise first. St Louis fans were Cardinals fans first (Cardinals being terrible at the time certainly helped them to convert). If you move into Vegas you have fans of multitude of teams, Portland is right smack dab in Seahawks country, New Mexico Cardinals, Chargers, and Cowboys area. You are always going to encounter this w/ Expansion. The fact is, when an area has a team, more often than not, those who live in that area start pulling for that team.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
4 games at home, then away, rinse repeat. Every team that has to go to London gets their bye scheduled for the week afterward, just like know. It's not really the logistics problem everyone makes it out to be.


So, you're proposing that they live here for a month, then live in the UK for a month, then live here for a month, then live in the UK for a month?

The jet lag alone would be a nightmare. Just as soon as their bodies were adjusting to US time, they're back in the UK, and vice versa. You better be paying these players double what they'd make in the US, because you're asking them to maintain two houses, with two completely different set of tax laws and a stark difference in cost of living. You better hope the team sells a lot of merchandise, because you're asking the team to maintain two different facilities for practices, film study, workout facilities, etc...

The logistics on Sunday aren't the concern, it's the logistics from Monday to Saturday that are.
No they'd only have 1 home, and that's in London, when they are on the road, they would be living out of a hotel in whatever city they are playing in that week.


Have you ever lived out of a hotel? Not fun, not in the least...even if it was a five star hotel. Three days of it and all I want to do is get into my own bed, take a shower in my own shower, sit on my own couch...that's three days, and you're asking for upwards of 30 days away from home. That is brutal - even "Road Warrior" type jobs such as Consultants or Sales People get 2-3 days at home before they're back on the road for 5-7 days.

Also - team facilities on these "road trips"? Where are they going to practice, watch film, get treatment for various injuries? A team's locker room is pretty up there in terms of equipment needs, space for practice and weekly gameplanning - how do you handle that side of the equasion? The Texans hold weekly practices and film study at Reliant Stadium; There are about 10 practce fields all around the stadium, and the locker room/classroom/weight room/cafeteria/lounge/trainer's facilities are all on-site. How do you propose replicating that for eight games a season in a different city?

Also - it isn't as if the 53 and coaches are the only people asked to travel. Team trainers, doctors, members of the media, equipment managers...I'd wager that on any given NFL road game, the away team has upwards of 200+ people traveling with them, not just the players. The grind on everyone involved in that would put this team at a stark disadvantage.

Until methods of travel improve to where a flight from London to LA can be reduced to about a 3-4 hour flight, there's NO way the NFL can pull this off.

EDIT: An example of what you're asking for? The 2005 New Orleans Saints, who were pretty much displaced for a whole season following Hurricane Katrina. They couldn't go back to the Superdome, they had to play every game in San Antonio and live out of a suitcase that year. That team was a hot mess from top to bottom that year.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
4 games at home, then away, rinse repeat. Every team that has to go to London gets their bye scheduled for the week afterward, just like know. It's not really the logistics problem everyone makes it out to be.


So, you're proposing that they live here for a month, then live in the UK for a month, then live here for a month, then live in the UK for a month?

The jet lag alone would be a nightmare. Just as soon as their bodies were adjusting to US time, they're back in the UK, and vice versa. You better be paying these players double what they'd make in the US, because you're asking them to maintain two houses, with two completely different set of tax laws and a stark difference in cost of living. You better hope the team sells a lot of merchandise, because you're asking the team to maintain two different facilities for practices, film study, workout facilities, etc...

The logistics on Sunday aren't the concern, it's the logistics from Monday to Saturday that are.
No they'd only have 1 home, and that's in London, when they are on the road, they would be living out of a hotel in whatever city they are playing in that week.


Have you ever lived out of a hotel? Not fun, not in the least...even if it was a five star hotel. Three days of it and all I want to do is get into my own bed, take a shower in my own shower, sit on my own couch...that's three days, and you're asking for upwards of 30 days away from home. That is brutal - even "Road Warrior" type jobs such as Consultants or Sales People get 2-3 days at home before they're back on the road for 5-7 days.

Also - team facilities on these "road trips"? Where are they going to practice, watch film, get treatment for various injuries? A team's locker room is pretty up there in terms of equipment needs, space for practice and weekly gameplanning - how do you handle that side of the equasion? The Texans hold weekly practices and film study at Reliant Stadium; There are about 10 practce fields all around the stadium, and the locker room/classroom/weight room/cafeteria/lounge/trainer's facilities are all on-site. How do you propose replicating that for eight games a season in a different city?

Also - it isn't as if the 53 and coaches are the only people asked to travel. Team trainers, doctors, members of the media, equipment managers...I'd wager that on any given NFL road game, the away team has upwards of 200+ people traveling with them, not just the players. The grind on everyone involved in that would put this team at a stark disadvantage.

Until methods of travel improve to where a flight from London to LA can be reduced to about a 3-4 hour flight, there's NO way the NFL can pull this off.

EDIT: An example of what you're asking for? The 2005 New Orleans Saints, who were pretty much displaced for a whole season following Hurricane Katrina. They couldn't go back to the Superdome, they had to play every game in San Antonio and live out of a suitcase that year. That team was a hot mess from top to bottom that year.
There were a lot of things going on w/ that Katrina team and most of them had nothing to do w/ living out of a hotel, you and I both know that. And yes I lived out of a hotel for a month this year for work, it wasn't great, but not as horrible as you make it out to be either. As for the other logistics questions. Every single team in the NFL (w/the exception of GB) is in a major city w/ first class training facilities available somewhere. BTW baseball players do this all the time, its not near as bad as you make it out be.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
There were a lot of things going on w/ that Katrina team and most of them had nothing to do w/ living out of a hotel, you and I both know that.

Fair enough, but I remember a common complaint from players on that team was being on the road as much as they were.

Quote:
And yes I lived out of a hotel for a month this year for work, it wasn't great, but not as horrible as you make it out to be either.

You're now asking it to be a mandatory aspect of playing for this particular team. Whereas you can sign with a team in the continental US, and have a normal schedule which allows you to have a family life. The allure of London is there, but how far does that take you when you're trying to appeal to free agents?

Quote:
Every single team in the NFL (w/the exception of GB) is in a major city w/ first class training facilities available somewhere.

A few things wrong with this belief:

- Houston is the 4th largest city in the US. By my count, we have one facility that can meet ALL the needs of the Texans: Reliant Stadium. Houston has Minute Maid Park, Houston has the Toyota Center, Houston has BBVA Compass stadium. All very nice venues, and with the exception of the Toyota Center, all can probably have one GAME at said venue. However, the whole week leading up to a game? Probably not (and it ain't like the Rockets/Astors/Dynamo would just volunteer their facilities for the sake of some NFL team, but more on that later).

- You state other cities have facilities available. I'll entertain that for a second: What about proximity to one another? Can you FULLY state that cities would have a venue where a team can practice, a venue where a team can use as a "base of operations" for gameplan and film study, a venue where trainers can work with players to ensure they are healthy, a venue where you can feed everyone, and a venure where players can get in their conditioning work - and have it all close enough to where you're not running buses back and forth between all venues? True, cities might have a handful of these (and they ain't cheap, but more on that later) but are the close enough to one another to where players and other members of the team can move freely amongst the venues? If your star WR twists his knee during some drills, can you shuttle him down to the trainer's area in the depths of the stadium and get an MRI on the spot, or do you have to bus him out to the nearest hospital to have that work done? Also - given that all of this is happening while other football seasons are going on (HS, college, etc) do you think anyone would even rent out a facility in the FIRST place?

- Costs. So, in addition to the costs behind hotels for 200+ people, you're tacking on the costs involved to renting out these first class training facilities for 5-6 days, completely away from the public? As stated, Houston has a few extra stadiums, a few extra areas where something like this could take place for a single game...but now, you're asking for COMPLETE usage of said facilities, with all non-members of the team are restricted from viewing?

I'll put it like this: London vs Houston. London elects to rent out BBVA Compass stadium as their venue - has all the above needed, training facilities, workout areas, advanced medical equipment, practice field - everything we would need, one of these spots that eliminates many other needs. How much do you think it would cost to rent out a stadium such as that for a good FIVE days? Before that - who even says the Houston Dynamo would rent out the stadium to begin with?

This team better turn in a MASSIVE profit right out the gates to cover the cost of this one game, let alone the other seven games...and they better hope the other 30+ cities they will be traveling to have facilities to begin with (which, as I outlined earlier - is not a foregone conclusion). Houston might be one of the few cities in which this could work, mostly because we have three state-of-the-art outdoor facilities to lean on. Can you say that about every NFL team?

As I said in my earlier post, you better hope this team makes MASSIVE amounts of money to even make this a feasable option.

Quote:
BTW baseball players do this all the time, its not near as bad as you make it out be.

Again: How much do you think this will all cost? While it's been a while since I have followed baseball, I can never recall a team having upwards of 30 days away - maybe an 8-10 game road trip at most. Even then, you're constantly on the road in baseball; You land, check in, sleep, wake up, prep, play a game, back on the road. Baseball doesn't have near the level of depth of planning leading into a game - you don't watch the same number of hours of film, you don't have a practice field where you go out on a daily basis to work on execution (pitchers might be the exception, but it isn't as if they play every game - they get days off to work on those things) and...as stated, baseball players get planned days off in each of these trips, to keep them from burning out in this grind.
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Conquest8089


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not announcing the LA Team until the Stadium is constructed allowed All Team looking for New Stadiums to use the potential move as leverage in negotiations. It was pretty evident that following the season talks with Atlanta would heat up. The goal since the realignment has been regionalizing the Divisions (Besides the NFC East).

The St. Louis Rams are moving to Los Angeles. The Los Angeles-San Francisco rivalry is tremendous in baseball, and it will also be twice a year in Football.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The league is clearly fairly even at the moment.

I actually think it would be a good time to look into an expansion. Los Angeles and Oklahoma City.

Bring on the Los Angeles Outlaws & Oklahoma City Bombers! Cool
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Bring on the Los Angeles Outlaws & Oklahoma City Bombers! Cool


Meh. I always liked Los Angeles Aftershox and the San Antonio Vandals. Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NFL is better the way it is.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Bring on the Los Angeles Outlaws & Oklahoma City Bombers! Cool


Meh. I always liked Los Angeles Aftershox and the San Antonio Vandals. Wink


Aftershox fit San Fran better after 1906 & 1989. LA Outlawz is just perf.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why doesn't the NFL just move all 32 teams to LA?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Bring on the Los Angeles Outlaws & Oklahoma City Bombers! Cool


Meh. I always liked Los Angeles Aftershox and the San Antonio Vandals. Wink


Aftershox fit San Fran better after 1906 & 1989. LA Outlawz is just perf.


Eh. Outlaws would work, I guess. I'd like to think the league would want to stay away from the image of LA being some crime ridden/gang infested city, but...well, stranger things have happened.

Can't really play off of any other team names there - Lakers, Clippers, Kings, Dodgers, Galaxy - Los Angeles Spartans would have a good ring to it, but would wonder if it could lead to a bit of brand backlash with the USC Trojans being right down the road.

Then again, "borrowing" worked the last time the NFL had a new team to throw a logo on:




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conquest8089 wrote:
Not announcing the LA Team until the Stadium is constructed allowed All Team looking for New Stadiums to use the potential move as leverage in negotiations. It was pretty evident that following the season talks with Atlanta would heat up. The goal since the realignment has been regionalizing the Divisions (Besides the NFC East).

The St. Louis Rams are moving to Los Angeles. The Los Angeles-San Francisco rivalry is tremendous in baseball, and it will also be twice a year in Football.
Glad you've been paying attention
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Bring on the Los Angeles Outlaws & Oklahoma City Bombers! Cool


Meh. I always liked Los Angeles Aftershox and the San Antonio Vandals. Wink


Aftershox fit San Fran better after 1906 & 1989. LA Outlawz is just perf.

Or, you know, you could spell the names correctly, just a thought.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davey wrote:
Why doesn't the NFL just move all 32 teams to LA?

Because one of those teams would bring Mark Sanchez with them, and the only people in LA that want Mark Sanchez back are related to Mark Sanchez.
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