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Ray Lewis may have used banned substance
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 21509
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
NewNutz wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
NewNutz wrote:
BaltimoreTerp wrote:
NewNutz wrote:
bungleodeon wrote:
Oh come on people, he's not the only one. The fact anyone is acting surprised about this is laughable. Guess what, Barry Bonds was roiding... Confused


I'm not surprised in the least. However i also believe that probably at least 90% of the league uses ped's. And someone here said it was 3 months and not one that lewis was out for. Even so, a torn tricep is normally a season ending injury. Anyone who thinks lewis and suggs weren't using ped's to recover is just in complete denial. Not saying they're the only ones, cuz like i said, it's probably most of the league. But come on, could it be any more obvious?
While I agree that most players are likely on some form of PED's, I still don't like the premise of focusing on Ravens players who recovered from injuries on an accelerated timetable. With Lewis, at least there is this (highly dubious) article, so there's at least some smoke. But Suggs? If we're going to declare Suggs a definite user because he came back and played as a shell of himself 7 and a half months after partially tearing his Achilles, why aren't we also saying Adrian Peterson definitely juiced, because he came back from a torn ACL to post a 2,000 yard season within 8 months? Or Justin Smith, coming back from his own triceps tear within just a couple of weeks? Or Wes Welker, with his own ACL tear causing him to get back in time for the start of the next season? Or Ben Roethlisberger, who bounces off of injuries like he's a zombie?

I'm not inclined to care in general what these players are putting into their own bodies because the whole process is so litigious and arbitrary to begin with, but I'm not sure why Terrell Suggs deserves special mention in any of this.


well obviously you wouldn't like people focusing on the ravens. They're your team. The only reason i'm even focusing on them is because of the recent article. and as far as peterson goes, i definitely think he used. I'm a patriots fan (not bitter by the way, the ravens wanted that game more and completely kicked their [inappropriate/removed]), and i'll be the first one to say that welker probably used to get back in time, and brandon spikes got suspended recently for using hgh i believe (last season i think). Jermaine cunningham also got suspended this year. That guy was obviously using. He sucked for 3 seasons and then all of the sudden early this season he turns into a beast. I'm not in denial about guys on the patriots using PED's, like i said, i think at least 90% of the league does it. But to think that lewis and suggs came back that quickly without using is ridiculous. and to think that all lewis used was deer antler or whatever the hell it is, is just turning a blind eye as well. If you look at the nfl and the guys that get caught and suspended, it's always lower level guys, never their big stars and stud players. The nfl doesn't want to suspend those guys and their testing policy is a joke.


The Williamses, Shawn Merriman, the Seahawks guys, Brian Cushing, etc.

Plenty of big name guys have been suspended.


those guys aren't legitimate studs. I'm talking about guys like peterson, ray lewis, etc. as far as your examples go though, both of the williamses appealed and won, and didn't miss a game, as did richard sherman of the seahawks. I wouldn't exactly call brandon browner a stud player. Cushing is borderline. Merriman when he got suspended was probably the closest thing to a stud, and he sucked when he came back and is now out of the league i believe. Again, i mean the real big name guys. The ones who bring fans and revenue to the league. Would i be surprised if a guy like tom brady or peyton manning got caught and suspended? Absolutely. but i wouldn't be surprised that they were using, just that the nfl would actually suspend a guy like that. It will never happen. that's why peterson and other guys of his calliber will never get caught.


What???

Sherman is the best CB in the league.
Merriman (at the time) was the best pass rusher in the league.
Cushing was one of the best young ILB's in the NFL.


This again???
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nagahide13


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keleth wrote:
nagahide13 wrote:
You don't use deer antler spray to come back from this kind of injury. It just doesn't really work that way. Modern science doesn't even recognize deer antler spray as being a viable PHD, mostly because of the delivery system. Ray Lewis used legitimate means that are far more effective. And possibly some that aren't, but that's not the point here.

Deer antler spray is basically a hoax. SWATS also sells magnetic bracelets and negatively charged water, etc. Performance bands. Concussion caps. Shoe inserts with chips in them. It's all garbage.


You would be surprised I think what athletes would use in desparation to come back especially in their last season.
As I said earlier it is a non story but you cannot just laugh off the idea an athlete would use it.


I wouldn't. At all. I just know that a player that's this high profile, with his history, and his incredible bankroll doesn't use an illegal product that doesn't do friggen anything while completely avoiding actual PHDs that are just as difficult to test for. Especially when there is actual HGH out there.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nagahide13 wrote:
Keleth wrote:
nagahide13 wrote:
You don't use deer antler spray to come back from this kind of injury. It just doesn't really work that way. Modern science doesn't even recognize deer antler spray as being a viable PHD, mostly because of the delivery system. Ray Lewis used legitimate means that are far more effective. And possibly some that aren't, but that's not the point here.

Deer antler spray is basically a hoax. SWATS also sells magnetic bracelets and negatively charged water, etc. Performance bands. Concussion caps. Shoe inserts with chips in them. It's all garbage.


You would be surprised I think what athletes would use in desparation to come back especially in their last season.
As I said earlier it is a non story but you cannot just laugh off the idea an athlete would use it.


I wouldn't. At all. I just know that a player that's this high profile, with his history, and his incredible bankroll doesn't use an illegal product that doesn't do friggen anything while completely avoiding actual PHDs that are just as difficult to test for. Especially when there is actual HGH out there.


Maybe it's because, and I know this might be a HUGE shock to some folks out there, Ray Lewis wanted to do things the right way? Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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JuicyJax


Joined: 02 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guy who made the claim publicly apologized to Ray Lewis saying he never gave him deer antler spray. This is why you don't jump all over players for allegations, but haters gonna' hate.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/nfl-rapidreports/21628436/swats-owner-publicly-apologizes-to-ravens-lb-ray-lewis
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1BackInBlackFan


Joined: 29 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JuicyJax wrote:
Guy who made the claim publicly apologized to Ray Lewis saying he never gave him deer antler spray. This is why you don't jump all over players for allegations, but haters gonna' hate.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/nfl-rapidreports/21628436/swats-owner-publicly-apologizes-to-ravens-lb-ray-lewis


I hope Lewis sues the hell of that guy.
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49ers Finest


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just saw this. had to post it Laughing


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kmvoss


Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmvoss wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
kmvoss wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
kmvoss wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
kmvoss wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
He used a banned substance to gain an edge. There are reasons why certain substances are banned, and that's because they give the user an advantage over other's who choose not to use them.

He cheated. Plain and simple. The stuff he's accused of using is essentially HGH.
What evidence leads you to this conclusion? I guess you listened to the tapes where Lewis incriminates himself?

What leads you to your conclusion ?? Did you listen to the tapes ??




I didn't say I know Lewis is innocent. I didn't make a conclusion. I haven't heard any tapes. I do not presume to know one way or the other. You're way off base with this high-school diminutive logic. Asking me if I've seen or heard the evidence is pretty funny. No doctor, I haven't seen any evidence leading me to believe that Ray Lewis, one of the greatest players of all time, has cheated. You, on the other hand, have decided to put him in what you've deemed to be a common yet terrible category without a lick of evidence. You have nothing but conjecture based on hearsay and you seem intent on crucifying the man less than a day after this story has been developing. This is why the court of public opinion is not regarded in formal law, every day people have a very poor sense of jurisprudence. It's embarrassing.

I'm not intent on crucifying him....although I'm sure he'd welcome the notion. I'm simply pointing out the common chain of events that occur with EVERY athlete accused of cheating;
1. Accusation from supplier, friend, teammate, etc.
2. Dismissal of said accusation
3. Denial of said accusation
4. Attempted character destruction of those claiming to have knowledge of the use by the accused
5. Continued denial of accusation
6. Others come forward admitting knowledge of the use
7. Accused admits the use of supplements that must have been tampered with

This isn't a criminal trial here, so the comparison is inaccurate. The only thing called into question here is Ray Lewis' persona, and whether or not he's actually everything he preaches he is. There's only one court where that can be called into question; the court of public opinion. In some ways, the court of public opinion is more influential than the justice system. Common sense has no place in a court room....it's all about rights and procedures. The court of public opinion can't be fooled, and loopholes don't exist.



That seven point plot arc of the doper you conjured up is one of the more insipid confirmation biases I've seen. You have the plot already laid out. Stating the public cannot be misled and inferring it isn't hampered by people's rights, not to mention procedure, is hilariously awful. The story isn't even a day old and you're ready to close the book on this trial, as it were. Before the evidence has been heard, before Lewis has a chance to properly address the issue. It's sad. The procurement and release of any type of evidence is what people need to be looking for, not this gleefully ignorant and reckless attitude that bears several similarities to the methods used to convict people during the inquisition.

So let me get this straight....You're judging me, prematurely, and before any evidence can be heard on my premature judgment that's lacking evidence on someone else ?? Do you and Ray Lewis ride your "high horses" together ??

Well...4 of 7 points of my "plot arc of the doper" have come to fruition (I can exhibit the extent of my vocabulary to talk down to people as well) already, and it's only a matter of time before the process concludes. He's had an opportunity to address the matter and much like the double-murders, he's chosen to not discuss it and has attempted to call into question the character of the accuser. He'll continue to deny it, then eventually a friend or teammate will come forward with knowledge of the "doping", and then he'll admit to using what he believed was an innocent substance.


Your thoughts on this matter are clear to all which enable them to be judged by your fellow posters. What you are saying is self evident, you are laying the evidence down clear for all to see. You babbling about how I should have evidence about your opinion is white noise and has nothing to do with my sentiment. You think Lewis is guilty. You have no evidence of any guilt. As the story develops and inconsistencies about both the origin of the story and the science behind deer antler spray make things murkier, you've decided to double down on your pernicious incomprehension.

Denying and turning things around on your accuser doesn't connote guilt. Pretty laughable you think it does. If someone falsely accused me of doping, assault, sexual assault, or anything that calls into question my character I would go on the offense as Lewis has and give it right back to my accuser. This is hard to do but assume Lewis is innocent for one minute. How do you expect him to behave? You want him to step out of the superbowl bubble and create a far bigger distraction for his team? You'd like that, I know. To me this has very little to do with wether Lewis is guilty or not as I have no way of knowing at this point. I'll wait for more developments before thinking I know anything pertaining to his guilt or innocence. To me this thread has more to do the sciolism and ignorance of one or two especially loud detractors. Give it a month or two and the pain surrounding the loss will subside.


Hate to say I told you so, "FirstDownFaulk". Oh, I didn't notice he has disappeared for the last few days. I wonder why.
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Malik


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure this thread will be flooded with people who will admit they were wrong. POSITIVE.
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canadaluvsdalla


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the Ray lewis lifelong haters quickly disappear... Laughing
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canadaluvsdalla wrote:
And the Ray lewis lifelong haters quickly disappear... Laughing


Considering he was AT THE VERY LEAST, associated with the deaths of 2 men, no they don't.
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JuicyJax


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
canadaluvsdalla wrote:
And the Ray lewis lifelong haters quickly disappear... Laughing


Considering he was AT THE VERY LEAST, associated with the deaths of 2 men, no they don't.


Ignorance is bliss
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to football fellas. Keep it on topic.
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pierrepet


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course he has used performance enhancing drugs.....but so have a majority of other players.

I still dont understand why Lewis is such a media darling. He is in no way shape or form a role model or someone that should be worshiped the way he is. He is a great football player and a leader on the football field. But the positives end there.
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kmvoss


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
canadaluvsdalla wrote:
And the Ray lewis lifelong haters quickly disappear... Laughing


Considering he was AT THE VERY LEAST, associated with the deaths of 2 men, no they don't.


In regards to this thread they should. This thread was created solely due to a false allegation and has nothing to do with a murder case from twelve years ago. That's too bad, so sad for the vast majority of Lewis haters.
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duke2056


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmvoss wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
canadaluvsdalla wrote:
And the Ray lewis lifelong haters quickly disappear... Laughing


Considering he was AT THE VERY LEAST, associated with the deaths of 2 men, no they don't.


In regards to this thread they should. This thread was created solely due to a false allegation and has nothing to do with a murder case from twelve years ago. That's too bad, so sad for the vast majority of Lewis haters.


Outside of the way he plays football and leads his team on the field and in the locker room, what is there to LIKE about this giant dill-hole.
I mean seriously, is there anyone else that has played this game that is more insufferable?
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