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Where Does Alex Smith Land
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49ers Finest


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 8729
Location: San Jose
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Kikuchiyo wrote:


Michael Vick is a turnover machine. Even Alex is a better QB than him.


LOL the revisionist history on Alex Smith is hilarious

Alex Smith the guy who had something absurd like 1 TD and 12 ints his first year in the league and continued to have more turnovers than TDs just about every year of his career until Harbaugh came along

But nooo, let's forget about that. Let's pretend the rate of turning the ball over this year for Vick is something that he's been doing as often as Alex Smith for his career.

nobody is revising anything
or puffing there chest Laughing

youre just picking things to prove your point and ignoring others.
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Kikuchiyo


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2112
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Kikuchiyo wrote:

So wait... You're saying Alex posted his career best in TD's... without Jim Harbaugh? But... But... I thought Alex Smith was nothing before the almighty Jim Harbaugh.


His career best was the "whopping" 19 TDs he had last year WITH Jim. And he did so with a significantly better TD/TO ratio

You have evaded the entire point which is that his all-time best production with or without Harbaugh is not even 20 TDs in a season

And it's a reason why Vick who missed THREE SEASONS as a starter has more TDs than Alex Smith over the span of 2006-10

But you seemed to have ignored that with just about every other point, which I understand because evasive tactics like that are the only way to justify the absurdity of saying Alex Smith has proven anything compared to Vick without that loaded cast and elite coaching staff

Quote:
THere is a REASON why he was considered a bust and the revisionist history on his shortcomings is some of the worst revisionist history I've ever seen

You tell me I'm trying to revise history and yet you're the one saying Alex Smith had more turnovers than TDs every year he was in the league before Harbs got there, which is only true for 2 years in his career (one being his rookie year, the other his 3rd year where he played with a seperated throwing shoulder for 7 games). Since 2009 (two years with Harbs, two years without), Alex has 62 TDs to just 32 INTs. There's no revision there. Just history.


This is a nitpicking evasion. First of all, do you realize lost fumbles count as turnovers? And secondly, even though Alex Smith had 2 years without more turnovers than TDs, the overall SPAN of time before Harbaugh even taking away Alex Smith's worse year, he had more turnovers than TDs

So congratulations that he had 14 Tds to 12 one year to avoid having more than TDs

So continue to use that red herring to justify his woeful play since it was only 3 of the 5 seasons he played in instead of 4 of the 5 before 2011


LOL. And you're acting like Mike Vick is all that better? He tops out at 21 passing TD's in a season, not that much better than Alex's 18. He also STILL struggles to hit 60% of his passes. I know Alex ain't all that great. Just saying Mike Vick is a garbage QB.
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ers Finest wrote:

nobody is revising anything
or puffing there chest Laughing

youre just picking things to prove your point and ignoring others.


The complete opposite is being done.

I"m pointing to the lack of productivity or effectiveness of Alex Smith in terms of individual effort or leading his team to any type of winning ways for his WHOLE CAREER before 2011

And yet I'm getting this red herring argument that basically amounts to but... but.... he had 14 touchdowns and 12 interceptions one year.


Now again, Vick has not been Aaron Rodgers for his career either. But AT LEAST he had some winning seasons and accounted for more than a paltry 18 or 19 touchdowns in his best seasons. Heck even Vick's WORSE seasons ever rival Alex Smith's best
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Kikuchiyo


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2112
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
49ers Finest wrote:

nobody is revising anything
or puffing there chest Laughing

youre just picking things to prove your point and ignoring others.


The complete opposite is being done.

I"m pointing to the lack of productivity or effectiveness of Alex Smith in terms of individual effort or leading his team to any type of winning ways for his WHOLE CAREER before 2011

And yet I'm getting this red herring argument that basically amounts to but... but.... he had 14 touchdowns and 12 interceptions one year.


No. You were trying to revise history saying Alex couldn't learn to hang onto a ball before Jim Harbaugh got to town and I've just been proving you completely false.


Quote:
Now again, Vick has not been Aaron Rodgers for his career either. But AT LEAST he had some winning seasons and accounted for more than a paltry 18 or 19 touchdowns in his best seasons. Heck even Vick's WORSE seasons ever rival Alex Smith's best


Vick had WAY better teams surrounding him than Alex had early in his career, but you keep throwing in the whole "Well Alex wasn't any good until he had a team around him." Well duh. Most QB aren't very good without a good team around them.
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kikuchiyo wrote:
BBIB wrote:
49ers Finest wrote:

nobody is revising anything
or puffing there chest Laughing

youre just picking things to prove your point and ignoring others.


The complete opposite is being done.

I"m pointing to the lack of productivity or effectiveness of Alex Smith in terms of individual effort or leading his team to any type of winning ways for his WHOLE CAREER before 2011

And yet I'm getting this red herring argument that basically amounts to but... but.... he had 14 touchdowns and 12 interceptions one year.


No. You were trying to revise history saying Alex couldn't learn to hang onto a ball before Jim Harbaugh got to town and I've just been proving you completely false.


Quote:
Now again, Vick has not been Aaron Rodgers for his career either. But AT LEAST he had some winning seasons and accounted for more than a paltry 18 or 19 touchdowns in his best seasons. Heck even Vick's WORSE seasons ever rival Alex Smith's best


Vick had WAY better teams surrounding him than Alex had early in his career, but you keep throwing in the whole "Well Alex wasn't any good until he had a team around him." Well duh. Most QB aren't very good without a good team around them.


The 2003 Falcons went 2-10 without Vick. With the EXACT same team Vick went 3-1 as a starter in his return and took that team to the NFC Championship game

Look at the rosters of the 2003 and 2004 Falcons. It's about as identical of a roster you'll find. Just like it was the identical roster that all of a sudden won in his return

Alex Smith may not have been on a team as loaded as he's been on the last couple of years, but there is a reason why Troy Smith had a better win percentage than Alex Smith in the year before Harbaugh. (3-3 vs 3-7)

Alex Smith just wasn't any good. And he still isn't without that favorable system and improved cast

Look I know that 49er fans may have a soft spot for Alex Smith and compared to Vick they may think he's a far better human being, but that's no reason to pretend that he's even close to the same player when Vick can literally account for more TDs than Smith despite missing THREE YEARS in the league as a starter

I mean how is it even debatable with that stat alone?
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jwalter_81


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Location: Harrogate, England
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd take a QB getting better later in his career over a guy getting worse...but that's just me.
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 8771
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jwalter_81 wrote:
I'd take a QB getting better later in his career over a guy getting worse...but that's just me.


But why should anyone believe that the QB getting "better" had anything to do with his own level of play instead of the cast around him

The main thing that got "better" was his efficiency because of how careful they asked him to be with the football which is why he took a lot of sacks and why their offensive productivity was so pedestrian despite the amazing field position and extra possessions you get from an elite defense. Yet his TDs per game is still as pedestrian as it's ever been.

Why should anyone believe that away from a team that can lead the league in rushing the football and be near the bottom of the league in passing attempts, without an elite Oline he will do anything except revert back to the fraudulent version?
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course at this point this may be futile

I mean I've been down this road before with Kevin Kolb vs Vick in 2010

and most recently Matt Flynn vs Russell Wilson.

Heck even Alex Smith vs Kaepernick so why should I be surprised.

These things just have to play themselves out because the facts don't seem to matter even when you're trying to justify taking someone who's shown at their peak they can play at a near all-pro level compared to someone at their peak has shown they can be game manager at best


Last edited by BBIB on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kal-El


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacksonville.
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal-El wrote:
Jacksonville.


Well the interesting thing is on one hand Alex Smith by default has to be an upgrade over Blaine Gabbert

But if he goes to a team that talentless he will be in position to completely fail

Hopefully for Alex's sake he lands in a better spot than that. Maybe Andy Reid finally learns how to run the football with Jamaal Charles in KC

Or there is a heavy dose of CJ Spiller in Buffalo
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Jaguarfan


Joined: 27 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Kal-El wrote:
Jacksonville.


Well the interesting thing is on one hand Alex Smith by default has to be an upgrade over Blaine Gabbert

But if he goes to a team that talentless he will be in position to completely fail

Hopefully for Alex's sake he lands in a better spot than that. Maybe Andy Reid finally learns how to run the football with Jamaal Charles in KC

Or there is a heavy dose of CJ Spiller in Buffalo

Well, CSIII and Blackmon>Crabtree and Moss, and Lewis and Davis put up very similar production this past season, soo he won't be short of offensive talent.
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Malik


Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Of course at this point this may be futile

I mean I've been down this road before with Kevin Kolb vs Vick in 2010

and most recently Matt Flynn vs Russell Wilson.

Heck even Alex Smith vs Kaepernick so why should I be surprised.

These things just have to play themselves out because the facts don't seem to matter even when you're trying to justify taking someone who's shown at their peak they can play at a near all-pro level compared to someone at their peak has shown they can be game manager at best


Leave it alone. If the ONLY positive thing you can say in defense of a 7th year QB with 80 games under his belt is that for a season and a half he didn't through a lot of turnovers, that pretty much rests the case on even debating their talent.
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49ersfan


Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 6389
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguarfan wrote:
BBIB wrote:
Kal-El wrote:
Jacksonville.


Well the interesting thing is on one hand Alex Smith by default has to be an upgrade over Blaine Gabbert

But if he goes to a team that talentless he will be in position to completely fail

Hopefully for Alex's sake he lands in a better spot than that. Maybe Andy Reid finally learns how to run the football with Jamaal Charles in KC

Or there is a heavy dose of CJ Spiller in Buffalo

Well, CSIII and Blackmon>Crabtree and Moss, and Lewis and Davis put up very similar production this past season, soo he won't be short of offensive talent.


Alex generally struggles throwing outside the hashmarks anyway so your WR's would be less effective. For example, Crabtree did well with Alex but he exploded onto the scene in Kaep's 3rd start (Manningham was Kaep's favorite WR in his first 2 games). Alex is better with TE's and seam routes/crossing routes, especially off PA.

Anyways even if the Jags did sign him i doubt it would be as a long-term starter. More as a stopgap while developing a rookie, pretty much like SF did.
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Bobikus


Joined: 07 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vick was good early in his career, but he's shown no reason lately to take over Alex Smith.
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mitchconnor


Joined: 23 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:


LOL the revisionist history on Alex Smith is hilarious


I think I'd agree with you if I saw anyone here pleading the case for Alex as a premier qb. But all I see the "pro-Smith" crowd saying is that he's an ok starter who would be the best qb on a handful of teams(KC, Philly, Arizona, Jets, Jags, Bills). I think that seems pretty reasonable.
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