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49ers trade QB Alex Smith to Chiefs for 2nd rounder, another
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Billy Spikes


Joined: 12 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And... Smith turned 29 today.
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49ersfan


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
I really expected the conditional pick to be contingent on make the playoffs, in which case, you'd think it was more worth it.

I don't know that we got fleeced or robbed, but it certainly was a better deal for the niners. Outside of that, we got a day one starter at QB, and I'm not sure there was another option available on the market this year. Just as much of this in my opinion was to absolutely clear the Matt Cassel era from KC, but dang, that is a lot to give up.


I figured it would have been 10 wins, or playoffs, or some kind of benchmark for Alex himself (starts, certain stats, pro bowl, etc etc). But 8 wins is very attainable for KC this year.

I really am surprised that KC would give up so much just for potentially going 8-8.
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steadypimpin


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
I really expected the conditional pick to be contingent on make the playoffs, in which case, you'd think it was more worth it.

I don't know that we got fleeced or robbed, but it certainly was a better deal for the niners. Outside of that, we got a day one starter at QB, and I'm not sure there was another option available on the market this year. Just as much of this in my opinion was to absolutely clear the Matt Cassel era from KC, but dang, that is a lot to give up.
You guys wanted Cassel gone and you're happy with Smith. I on the other hand was ecstatic when I heard we have finally moved on from the Smith era. What a funny world we live in.
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nicfre2011


Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
DT58_lives_on wrote:
I really expected the conditional pick to be contingent on make the playoffs, in which case, you'd think it was more worth it.

I don't know that we got fleeced or robbed, but it certainly was a better deal for the niners. Outside of that, we got a day one starter at QB, and I'm not sure there was another option available on the market this year. Just as much of this in my opinion was to absolutely clear the Matt Cassel era from KC, but dang, that is a lot to give up.


I figured it would have been 10 wins, or playoffs, or some kind of benchmark for Alex himself (starts, certain stats, pro bowl, etc etc). But 8 wins is very attainable for KC this year.

I really am surprised that KC would give up so much just for potentially going 8-8.


The compensation package given up for Alex Smith right out of the gate appears to be a rookie GM mistake by John Dorsey. My impression has been that Dorsey might have wanted to start off right with Andy Reid and when Reid zeroed in on Smith, Dorsey felt the pressure to deliver. It is hard to think of another explanation as to why Dorsey would have underplayed his hand when you look at what the 49ers were faced with IF they would have kept Smith (which wasn't going to happen).

The trade package for Smith only seems more questionable when you consider what kind of contract Chase Daniel signed with us. We need to keep in mind that he has 9 career PASSING ATTEMPTS in 3 years. Despite that, we signed him to a 3 year $10 million contract with $4.8 guaranteed.

In 2013 he will make a fully guaranteed $1.8 million.
In 2014 he will make $3.4 million (with $1 million of his 2014 base guaranteed).
In 2015 he will make $4.8 million.

Here is the kicker : If in any season Daniel passes for 2,000 or more yards and passes for 12 or more touchdowns, the deal voids.

All of this for a player that has again, ATTEMPTED 9 career passes. If they keep him around for 2013 and decide not to pay him the $3.8 million in 2014, they still get hit with $3 million in dead money (cap savings of $400,000). They will have paid Daniel a total of $3.8 million in 2013 (base salary of $800,000 and the full amount of his $3 million signing bonus).

What leverage do the Chiefs have in a deal like this? If by some chance Daniel subs for Alex Smith and hits those voidable parameters he hits the free agent market and can sign with another team. What benefit do the Chiefs potentially receive by signing a 3 year formerly undrafted veteran with 9 career passing attempts to a contract like this? IF Daniel plays well for Smith the team certainly doesn't benefit by catching lightning in a bottle by having a player under what would possibly go from an overvalued contract to an undervalued contract?

I support Dorsey and Reid and hope this regime can be successful, but to avoid being critical based on opinions and to avoid holding this regime to high standards is not something I want to do. It will all prove out on the field but IMO alot of the decisions that have been made so far have been head-scratchers to say the least - when you look at the big picture.

The overvalued contract that was given to Dunta Robinson before free agency, the trade package given up for Alex Smith right out of the gate, and the contract given to Chase Daniel are definitely questionable moves as far as I am concerned.

Edit : Dunta Robinson was signed to a 3 year contract worth $13.8 million with a $3 million signing bonus and $3.95 guaranteed (2013 base salary of $950,000 and the $3 million signing bonus). IF the Chiefs part ways with Robinson after the 2013 season, they will have paid him $4.75 on a 1 year deal (according to spotrac.com). He is due to make $5.35 million in 2014 and $5.7 million in 2015 - so I see this as essentially a 1 year deal for the $4.75 unless they renegotiate which makes little sense.

Edit Part Duex :

Dunta Robinson : 2013 cap hit of $2,750,000; $4,750,000 if let go after 2013 season considering signing bonus total amount.
Nnamdi Asomugha : 2013 cap hit of $1,775,000.
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie : 2013 guaranteed amount of $5,000,000.
Brent Grimes : 2013 cap hit of $5,500,000 ($3,000,000 guaranteed).

There is obviously no way we can tell player preferences which are involved in a player choosing a team to sign with, but the contracts players of a higher profile sign obviously can be used as leverage when negotiating with a player. When you sign a player before free agency to a sizable contract, you can't make use of that leverage. Of course the opposite can hold true, but it doesn't appear to be the case as far as the cornerback market in 2013 was concerned.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steadypimpin wrote:
DT58_lives_on wrote:
I really expected the conditional pick to be contingent on make the playoffs, in which case, you'd think it was more worth it.

I don't know that we got fleeced or robbed, but it certainly was a better deal for the niners. Outside of that, we got a day one starter at QB, and I'm not sure there was another option available on the market this year. Just as much of this in my opinion was to absolutely clear the Matt Cassel era from KC, but dang, that is a lot to give up.
You guys wanted Cassel gone and you're happy with Smith. I on the other hand was ecstatic when I heard we have finally moved on from the Smith era. What a funny world we live in.


To consider overpaying for Alex Smith right out of the gate with little to no use of the leverage that we had, largely to "help forget the ghost" of Matt Cassel is ridiculous. Consistently competitive franchises do not tie past sins with reasons for making present and future moves.
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sayheykid


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to pile on, but wow. Even if the second pick is a third, it's still too much.
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pierrepet


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="x0x"]
broncos67 wrote:

Yeah....what? Borderline top 10? Is that a joke?

Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Eli, Big Ben, Rivers, Flacco, RG3, Luck, Wilson, Dalton, Newton, Stafford, Cutler, Romo, Kaepernick

Okay that's ~15 and it's debatable with some other guys. No way is he near Top 10.


To play devil's advocate:

Romo
Cutler
Rivers
Luck
Dalton

and even Stafford could all be relegated to at or below Alex Smith's level.


Don't forget that numbers are largely meaningless if they don't equate to wins. Particularly with a guy like Romo.[/quote]



Prior to 2011, Alex Smith's winning percentage was 19-35. How again did Alex Smith give his team a better chance to win when Romo has a higher winning percentage?

2006: 2-7 (Romo went 8-5)
2007: 7-9 (Romo went 13-3)
2008: 2-5 (Romo went 8-5)
2009: 5-6 (Romo went 11-5)

Again, how exactly did Alex Smith give his team a better chance to win than Romo?

Also, prior to 2011, Alex Smith had a grand total of 4 fourth quarter comebacks in his career. Wow, that is clutch!

What a joke. Have we really reverted to the Alex Smith vs. Tony Romo debate again? Alex Smith's best season (3,144 yards, 61% completion %,17TD, 5 int., 90 QB rating) is arguably inferior to Romo's worst season. For example, Romo has never had a QB rating below 91.4 (Alex Smith's best QB rating was 90).

Why does Romo get the full blame for Dallas' failures, yet Alex Smith gets excuse after excuse for being largely a bust in the NFL?

I cannot wait to hear the excuses for Alex Smith next season. I can assure you this, if the Chiefs have success, it will be in spite of Alex Smith. The guy just isnt any good.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not Carson Palmer trade bad, but pretty horrible.

Now I hope they go 8-8 just to lose a 2nd round pick again. Even though it'd offset a bet I have Laughing Laughing
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simonwayne


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smith is hitting his prime and now has a great offensive line blocking for him again. With an offense that will be perfect for him. He'll always have Charles to dump the ball off too. He'll have Bowe as the go to guy out wide and three TE's that can all block and catch the ball. With a HC that will call more pass plays which is what Smith wants. Smith wanted to play for Reid all along once he knew Kaep was going to be the guy moving forward.

Trade isn't even that bad and I won't be upset with the compensation at all if we make the playoffs this season.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiefs fans will be plenty happy with this trade when all is said and done. All the talk won't change that. Just give him a chance. If your team is remotely solid in personnel and coaching? Alex will do well in KC, and you won't be anywhere near the basement of the AFCW again. Smile
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pierrepet


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
Chiefs fans will be plenty happy with this trade when all is said and done. All the talk won't change that. Just give him a chance. If your team is remotely solid in personnel and coaching? Alex will do well in KC, and you won't be anywhere near the basement of the AFCW again. Smile


To me, that is the problem. The Chiefs gave two quality draft picks for a player that, at best, will get them out of the basement of the AFC West. While Smith can probably succeed at that small task, he certainly does not give them much hope of ever doing much better than that.
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did I see borderline top ten?

Que?
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
Did I see borderline top ten?

Que?


He isnt an upper half of the leagues QBs imo
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EB29


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Did I see borderline top ten?

Que?


He isnt an upper half of the leagues QBs imo


Rose coloured glasses. It is the offseason you know Very Happy
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pierrepet wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
Chiefs fans will be plenty happy with this trade when all is said and done. All the talk won't change that. Just give him a chance. If your team is remotely solid in personnel and coaching? Alex will do well in KC, and you won't be anywhere near the basement of the AFCW again. Smile


To me, that is the problem. The Chiefs gave two quality draft picks for a player that, at best, will get them out of the basement of the AFC West. While Smith can probably succeed at that small task, he certainly does not give them much hope of ever doing much better than that.


I can only agree to disagree with you on this, and leave it at that. I feel KC has a good shot at 8 or 9 wins this season... and an even better record the season after. Improvement has to start somewhere. I clearly think more of this QB than you... but I know better by now to waste time trying to change people's thinking. Only thing to really do is let the season results do the talking.
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