Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Mayhem Mock - 3 Rounds ***MIAMI to #1***
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> 2015 NFL Mock Draft
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 4500
Location: Evanston, IL
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give me John Jenkins and Sylvester Williams over Barret Jones (career backup/average starter). Otherwise, wouldn't be upset with Moore in the first.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PaulyChief


Joined: 05 Mar 2013
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To address a few comments:

I don't live in Atlanta, so I haven't been following the Tony G drama. But being in KC, we are all well aware of Tony G drama. Let me ask you, why was he 99% retired before but suddenly he's thinking about a comeback? Because he's Tony G! He's a pretty good guy, but really needs attention. Would you really want a Brett Favre comeback scenario for a guy who is susceptible to being blown up over the middle on half his catches? I will believe in his return when I see it.

As for not wanting a very good TE in round 1 because Ryan won't throw to him. Huh? He's seriously going to pass up a wide open Ertz running down the seam instead for Harry Douglas? Come on, that's just silly. And Rogers only succeeds in that role because he's an extra guy. If you step him up t the 3rd option and defenses key on him, you definitely will need a great defense because that offense will turn to suck in a hurry.

Regarding E.J. Manuel in round 1. Mike Mayock just moved him up from unranked to number 2 in his positional rankings. That was after I posted this mock. Do you guys even watch football? How the hell can you have watched, for example, E.J. Manuel and Tyler Wilson and not seen how superior one is to the other? The quarterback position is why the niners got into the Super Bowl. After that experience, why on earth would they roll with Scott Tolzein as the backup?

Lastly, this is not a team needs mock. Take a look at the bottom of the mock after round 3. I listed the number of players taken through days 1-2 this year and compared it to 2012. Outside of QB, where there is an over-saturation of the early round picks of guys who were marginal starters, the rest of the draft plays out real similar to how it always does, except that this draft is even lighter than usual on either every down or dynamic playmaking RBs. If you're just shocked that a SS who some people have mocked in round 1 fell to round 3 my answer is: That's where those guys are drafted every year. People should stop mocking a dozen safeties in what is maybe a slightly above average class, in the top 50 picks. And finally, this is now a passing league. I have seen some mocks put Stedman Bailey in round 4, which besides being ludicrous on its face, has fewer wideouts drafted overall in the early rounds in a draft that is deep at that position. Come on, it's not that hard folkls.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 7187
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulyChief wrote:
To address a few comments:

I don't live in Atlanta, so I haven't been following the Tony G drama. But being in KC, we are all well aware of Tony G drama. Let me ask you, why was he 99% retired before but suddenly he's thinking about a comeback? Because he's Tony G! He's a pretty good guy, but really needs attention. Would you really want a Brett Favre comeback scenario for a guy who is susceptible to being blown up over the middle on half his catches? I will believe in his return when I see it.

As for not wanting a very good TE in round 1 because Ryan won't throw to him. Huh? He's seriously going to pass up a wide open Ertz running down the seam instead for Harry Douglas? Come on, that's just silly. And Rogers only succeeds in that role because he's an extra guy. If you step him up t the 3rd option and defenses key on him, you definitely will need a great defense because that offense will turn to suck in a hurry.

Regarding E.J. Manuel in round 1. Mike Mayock just moved him up from unranked to number 2 in his positional rankings. That was after I posted this mock. Do you guys even watch football? How the hell can you have watched, for example, E.J. Manuel and Tyler Wilson and not seen how superior one is to the other? The quarterback position is why the niners got into the Super Bowl. After that experience, why on earth would they roll with Scott Tolzein as the backup?

Lastly, this is not a team needs mock. Take a look at the bottom of the mock after round 3. I listed the number of players taken through days 1-2 this year and compared it to 2012. Outside of QB, where there is an over-saturation of the early round picks of guys who were marginal starters, the rest of the draft plays out real similar to how it always does, except that this draft is even lighter than usual on either every down or dynamic playmaking RBs. If you're just shocked that a SS who some people have mocked in round 1 fell to round 3 my answer is: That's where those guys are drafted every year. People should stop mocking a dozen safeties in what is maybe a slightly above average class, in the top 50 picks. And finally, this is now a passing league. I have seen some mocks put Stedman Bailey in round 4, which besides being ludicrous on its face, has fewer wideouts drafted overall in the early rounds in a draft that is deep at that position. Come on, it's not that hard folkls.


Why do you draft a backup, developmental qb in the first round when your starter is 26 and you have major needs at wide receiver, defensive line, corner and safety and your backup qb will possibly never see the field? Not to mention, manuel may not even be first round material. He may not even be ready to play, so even if kaepernick got hurt, tolzien would possibly still be the qb to get the start. Nobody is saying Manuel is terrible, so mayock can have him listed at number one, it doesn't matter. What people are saying is that pick makes no sense for the 49ers. Backup quarterbacks are available later in the draft and through free agency. You don't use your first round pick on a "what if" scenario (especially when that prospect is as raw as Manuel) and you have prospects who can come in, start and improve your team. Its a waste of a pick. If you're doing this as a "I'm just really ranking who I feel are the best prospects and slotting them to the team that's drafting in the slot of said prospects corresponding rank" regardless of need, that's different.
_________________


Two in harmony surpasses one in perfection - P3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
detroitroar


Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 4723
Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Completely disagree with how you have the safeties falling.

Love the Joeckel and the McFadden picks, so props there.

Reed is too high.

Escobar?

Barkley too low. I get Barkleys tape can leave a lot to be desired, but he does a lot right and the things he doesnt can be coached. Id be shocked if he made it out of round 2.
_________________
Team Stylish



2014 Adopt-A-Lion #1: Joe Lombardi
2014 Adopt-A-Lion #2: James Ihedigbo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
detroitroar


Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 4723
Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that QB is a big need for the 49ers, but that pick is really pushing it.
_________________
Team Stylish



2014 Adopt-A-Lion #1: Joe Lombardi
2014 Adopt-A-Lion #2: James Ihedigbo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scar988


FF Fanatic
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 29499
Location: Marietta, GA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
30 (ATL) Zach Ertz - TE Stanford: I don't think he's worth picking this high, but Tony is done. They should address other needs, but Matt Ryan is a top QB and gets a new target.

tony hasn't said either way. jumping the gun.
Quote:
28 (ATL) D.J. Swearinger - S So. Car.: Good value here and I don't think they'll re-sign Moore. They need to use those FA dollars on a RDE.

as much as I love swearinger, you obviously don't read the news. the Falcons are trying to re-sign William Moore. He's priority Numero Uno.
Quote:
30 (ATL) Brian Schwenke - C Cal: This is a great pick as he steps in to start right away. DTs are so athletic these days that a guy who can protect a legit franchise QB is critical. They can leave Konz at G here.

No it's a horrible pick because C isn't a need Joe Hawley is the starter and has spent 3 years behind McClure learning what to do as a center. Terrible pick. Konz isn't moving in the first place.
_________________

Dirty Bird Watch: DL Jonathan Babineaux
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
ttitansfan4life


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 25167
Location: Delaware
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is horrible mock for the Titans. I know the offense wasn't great last year, but the defense was horrible. You have us taking 4 offensive players and no defensive players? Horrible. Eifert at 10? Are you kidding me? If he was an great all-around player, maybe but he's not. He's a horrible blocker. Way overdrafted. Star should be the pick. 2nd pick isn't any better. Warford should be the pick. With the redraft of Warford in the 2nd, OG isn't a need. Elam should be the pick. Solid pick with the comp pick but I worry about the injuries.
_________________

Adopt-A-Titan:
Bishop Sankey
DaQuan Jones
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Suffering_Bills


Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 4079
Location: Rochester, N.Y.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ummm..... -I actually LOVE this draft for the Bills. You could JUST as easily flip-flop the rounds for Bray and McDonald, and it might be closer to reality, but if we got those three guys? Excellent. Smile
_________________
Why have a signature? I don't need to be famous.................................................
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PaulyChief


Joined: 05 Mar 2013
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Regarding QBs Reply with quote

So I doubt that you will see anything like how the QBs are selected in another mock. There is not even a QB selected in round 3. Even last year there were three QBs selected in Day 2 in a class that was considered top heavy.

I didn't arrive at this by pulling them out of a hat. Notice how the grades on the QBs are changing quite a bit. This is not a "I read a blog that quoted a source who said his team is hot for" mock. It's a "this is where these guys end up being drafted mock." How to I try to figure out where they end up? It's a [inappropriate/removed] meter. Not only is there a lot of intentional misinformation out there, there is also a lot written by a media whose standards are lower and lower and pressure to publish something hot is higher and higher. Not saying they make things up, but we call it the "rumor mill" for a reason. If you actually believe what you hear out of the rumor mill at work or within your family or circle of friends, rather than taking it as mildly entertaining chatter, you're a fool.

So when I watch a guy like E.J. Manuel, here's what I see: Not only do his long arms allow him to get the ball deep into the RBs frame and then pull it back and really hide it well on play action, he clearly has worked at selling playing action because he's Steve DeBerg-like. It's just a thing of beauty. You combine a guy who is that good at selling play action, and is big and strong to stand back there and wait for his receivers to get open deep, then can throw it a country mile, and absorb a hit that eventually arrives late, that's extremely valuable. Play action is severely under-rated in today's game because so many of the younger QBs have never done it and a lot of the spread offenses have empty backfields now.

I also see a guy who looks to me by his demeanor on the field to be a real leader. I think it makes a difference to have a QB who is, to be little salty, a big "swinging -." He has a lot of Roethlisberger in him in that sense.

So if I'm SF and just traded my former starter for a pick at the top of round 2 (outstanding value imo), and I have a total of 15 picks in the draft, I'm definitely taking a QB somewhere. I don't care if it's Renfree in round 6. We absolutely know they will take a QB somewhere, so let's start there. Now, they just got to the super bowl because when their starting QB went down they had a big-time developmental QB right there behind him, who was selected at the top of round 2. Look at how well this strategy has worked out for teams that have employed it. Steve Young, Aaron Rogers, Kaep, there are others. If it's me and I'm the GM in the situation where having a legit developmental QB in place just got me to the Super Bowl, and can now save $9m and get an extra pick, that tells me that having a developmental QB in place is a damn fine strategy! Amiright! I mean, come on. Scott Tolzein has been proposed as an alternative when you literally, just a couple months ago, were in the Super Bowl, because you did not have to play Scott Tolzein!

I apply a similar rationale to evaluating Bray. I do consider that the advisory committee must have told him he'd be drafted higher than round 5, which is where some people have absurdly mocked him. Yes, some guys who declare really fall. Most are drafted right in the range of where the committee says they should be. That's just one piece of the puzzle. Then compare him to a guy like Tyler Wilson, who is very small and just doesn't stand out as a leader to me. He might be a great guy in the locker room, but with the QB the guy has to be a great leader on the field. With Bray, he might not be a great teammate, but NFL wideouts like QBs who can put the ball on a nats [inappropriate/removed] and feed them straight to a monster second contract. We need to take some of this likability stuff with a grain of salt. Give me Phillip over Matt Cassell any day. Guys with big egos will clash with Phillip, but that's because he knows he's the man and so do they. For 60 minutes the only thing that counts is that everybody embraces that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PaulyChief


Joined: 05 Mar 2013
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a film study on Manuel from the excellent NFL's Future: http://nflsfuture.com/2013/03/07/how-high-is-too-high-for-ej-manuel/

So again, if you have a ton of extra picks, including before Day 3, you're a legit Super Bowl team that is just stacked at every position (yes, they do have some needs), and you need to find a really solid backup/developmental QB, and there is one guy in the draft who compares very favorably to your starter and like him will likely be available at the end of round 1 because he needs a year to develop, why oh why oh why oh why do you not make that pick?

Manuel to SF at the end of round 1 may be the most dead obvious pick in the draft, imo.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pacnwpackfan


Joined: 11 Mar 2012
Posts: 219
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This would be a bad draft for Green Bay. CB and OLB are at the low end of the spectrum of defensive need. They have no solid starter next to Burnett at safety; they need help on the d-line; and they need help at ILB as Bishop is coming off a catastrophic injury, Hawk is mediocre, and other possible starter DJ Smith is likely to start on IR due to his ACL last year.

TT drafts for need, don't kid yourself, but he just won't reach if the value isn't there. That is why you see a lot of trades in the draft with the Packers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Th@Bird$


Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 171
Location: PA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's kind of refreshing to see such an honest mock compared to the repeated mocks I see over and over. With that said, it's definitely different, but I like it in general.
I think in order to appreciate a mock like this, one must have an open mind and not be so narrow minded. I completely understand your logic on the EJ Manuel pick due to the heavy volume of the 9ers draft picks and how deep a class it is with their particular needs. They have the luxury to make a pick like that now that they own the Chiefs 2nd rounder. To get a future replacement for justin smith and high value pick like Datone Jones make it ok to grab Manuel a few picks before. And let's be honest, there's not many guys who would come in and play or greatly help the 9ers from day one except maybe a safety if Goldson leaves. Remember their draft of AJ Jenkins last year? Didn't do squat year one where the team was very weak but im sure he'll pan out this year. The 9ers are in a position to draft like this wih how deep/talented their team is with very few guys to lose in FA along with thir high volume in draft selections.
With the Vikings 1st rounder idk if Bailey goes that early or if he goes where he's currently projected in the 3rd or 4th round, but honestly who does know? Nobody. Who remembers Bruce Irvin going top 15 last year when he was supposedly a 2nd to 3rd round guy? I just find it ignorant to bash someone based on their opinion of where someone gets drafted when nobody truly knows. Things change with time. The problem I have here is what's up with Harvin? Is he out of MIN in your mock or no? If not they could use a taller outside WR and Bailey doesn't make sense.
KC going Ansah is possible if they believe in Stephenson but who knows what they do. If Ansah goes first, the whole draft might be skewed a tad.
JAC could go Mingo but I think they would go Jordn cause he's more promising and the shoulder surgery shouldn't be a big deal.
Other than that, maybe SD goes with someone different in rd 2 after getting an OT in the first, but I like your logic as it helps Matthews and Rivers tremendously. And in any case if you can get your bookend tackles together in one draft, bravo. Thats rare to do. And while most mocks could be off with how many safeties go in the top rounds, you have the top safety in Vaccaro falling to the top of the 2nd which is unlikely IMO. You said yourself it's a passing league and compared to a weaker draft class of safeties last year, I believe more will be drafted this year and Vaccaro goes a little higher.
As for my Eagles idk how I feel about Geno, I'm not against the pick. The rest I like. Poyer is great value.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Th@Bird$


Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 171
Location: PA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also there's countless cases where the SB losers fail terribly the following year either due to injuries or other variables. If Kaep goes down the 9ers are finished w/o Smith now
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FREDDY T


Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 5345
Location: NY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

id say swap wheaton for darius slay. We only have 2 CBs on the roster and could use 2 tall talented corners for sure!


Good job!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kempes


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 11731
Location: England
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, Arthur Jones plays for the Ravens....

I think you mean Arthur Brown.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> 2015 NFL Mock Draft All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group