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Giants WR Hakeem Nicks misses start of OTAs
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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 2317
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
AlphaQHard wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:


Personally, I like how Billy posts things so quickly to FF's NFL News forum, even if all the facts haven't come out yet. It lets me use FF as my first, one-stop NFL news source.

Anyway, I don't buy that Nicks isn't holding out. Coughlin seemed pretty steamed in the press conference that Nicks wasn't there, and there was smoke that Nicks was unhappy with his contract before missing OTAs. I'd be surprised if this wasn't at least part of it.


same. Billy is a beast.


x3 Lay off the Billy hating Texans.

And Nicks is certainly the priority over Cruz as he should be. I would love to keep them both in blue but Nicks is the better overall receiver and more important to the system we run. If we lose Cruz I believe Randle could take over his position. We have no replacement for Nicks.


What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?

Cruz thus far has proven the better deep threat, better third down receiver, and for the past two years has been the more reliable red zone target as well.
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Xfaxtor


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
AlphaQHard wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:


Personally, I like how Billy posts things so quickly to FF's NFL News forum, even if all the facts haven't come out yet. It lets me use FF as my first, one-stop NFL news source.

Anyway, I don't buy that Nicks isn't holding out. Coughlin seemed pretty steamed in the press conference that Nicks wasn't there, and there was smoke that Nicks was unhappy with his contract before missing OTAs. I'd be surprised if this wasn't at least part of it.


same. Billy is a beast.


x3 Lay off the Billy hating Texans.

And Nicks is certainly the priority over Cruz as he should be. I would love to keep them both in blue but Nicks is the better overall receiver and more important to the system we run. If we lose Cruz I believe Randle could take over his position. We have no replacement for Nicks.


What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?

Cruz thus far has proven the better deep threat, better third down receiver, and for the past two years has been the more reliable red zone target as well.


Check out his stats when Nicks has been out..
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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xfaxtor wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
AlphaQHard wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:


Personally, I like how Billy posts things so quickly to FF's NFL News forum, even if all the facts haven't come out yet. It lets me use FF as my first, one-stop NFL news source.

Anyway, I don't buy that Nicks isn't holding out. Coughlin seemed pretty steamed in the press conference that Nicks wasn't there, and there was smoke that Nicks was unhappy with his contract before missing OTAs. I'd be surprised if this wasn't at least part of it.


same. Billy is a beast.


x3 Lay off the Billy hating Texans.

And Nicks is certainly the priority over Cruz as he should be. I would love to keep them both in blue but Nicks is the better overall receiver and more important to the system we run. If we lose Cruz I believe Randle could take over his position. We have no replacement for Nicks.


What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?

Cruz thus far has proven the better deep threat, better third down receiver, and for the past two years has been the more reliable red zone target as well.


Check out his stats when Nicks has been out..


In the three games Nicks missed last year, Cruz had 201 yards and 4 touchdowns. That's 67 yards a game (1,072 yards when pro rated to a 16 game season) and 1.3 touchdowns a game. Mind you in the Panthers game they stopped trying to pass halfway through because it was a blow out.

What about 2011? In the Patriots game, the only one Nicks missed, Cruz had 91 yards for 15.2 yards a pop.

And of course there's the numerous games in which Nicks was hobbled, including the NFC title game in 2012, in which the 9ers best cornerback was on Cruz for most of the half. Cruz burned Rogers for 142 yards.

None of the Nicks over Cruz arguments make sense.
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Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:

What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?


Just about everything.
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BlackandBlue


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:

What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?


Just about everything.


Yet this alleged superiority doesn't translate on the field at all?
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:

What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?


Just about everything.


Yet this alleged superiority doesn't translate on the field at all?


Who do you think benefits more from the others presence on the field Nicks or Cruz?

Nicks is facing the #1 CB on most plays and Cruz is facing a #2 or #3. A slot guy in the modern NFL is always going to have more targets. Cruz is an amazing slot receiver but he's not putting up these numbers as a spotlighted #1 like Nicks is. Any speedy capable receiver can step into Cruz's role in this offense. The YAC may take a hit because Cruz is very good at running after the catch. No one can step into Nicks role, not even Cruz.

Let's not be coy here and compare numbers directly of a slot vs. #1 receiver. Their roles are very different. If you truly think Cruz is the more valuable guy then I seriously question your football knowledge.
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BlackandBlue


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:

What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?


Just about everything.


Yet this alleged superiority doesn't translate on the field at all?


Who do you think benefits more from the others presence on the field Nicks or Cruz?

Nicks is facing the #1 CB on most plays and Cruz is facing a #2 or #3. A slot guy in the modern NFL is always going to have more targets. Cruz is an amazing slot receiver but he's not putting up these numbers as a spotlighted #1 like Nicks is. Any speedy capable receiver can step into Cruz's role in this offense. The YAC may take a hit because Cruz is very good at running after the catch. No one can step into Nicks role, not even Cruz.

Let's not be coy here and compare numbers directly of a slot vs. #1 receiver. Their roles are very different. If you truly think Cruz is the more valuable guy then I seriously question your football knowledge.


Any speedy capable receiver can put 1,500 yards and 5+ touchdowns of 60 yards or longer? Yea, ok.

Again, Cruz has put up respectable numbers without Nicks in the lineup. He's put up numbers against number one receivers and when facing double teams.

I'd go so far as to say they have WRs on the roster that can fill Nicks role better than they could Cruz's.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one confuses me, any chance he is doing this to leverage Cruz against the giants?
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:

What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?


Just about everything.


Yet this alleged superiority doesn't translate on the field at all?


Who do you think benefits more from the others presence on the field Nicks or Cruz?

Nicks is facing the #1 CB on most plays and Cruz is facing a #2 or #3. A slot guy in the modern NFL is always going to have more targets. Cruz is an amazing slot receiver but he's not putting up these numbers as a spotlighted #1 like Nicks is. Any speedy capable receiver can step into Cruz's role in this offense. The YAC may take a hit because Cruz is very good at running after the catch. No one can step into Nicks role, not even Cruz.

Let's not be coy here and compare numbers directly of a slot vs. #1 receiver. Their roles are very different. If you truly think Cruz is the more valuable guy then I seriously question your football knowledge.


Any speedy capable receiver can put 1,500 yards and 5+ touchdowns of 60 yards or longer? Yea, ok.

Again, Cruz has put up respectable numbers without Nicks in the lineup. He's put up numbers against number one receivers and when facing double teams.

I'd go so far as to say they have WRs on the roster that can fill Nicks role better than they could Cruz's.


As I stated Cruz is an amazing YAC receiver. So no not any speedy receiver can replicate his yardage and big plays. Those YAC yards are on him. What I clearly stated above is any capable speedy receiver can take over his role in the offense, albeit with a decline in YAC. Maybe you should read my posts prior to responding?

Who are these receiver can that fill Nicks role on the Giants roster?
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w4rrior723


Joined: 27 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cruz is a great player but he's simply not the #1 Nicks is. Hakeem has more reliable hands, is more physical, and is much more of a force in the redzone. Nicks is right behind Cruz in his best area which is YAC. I love both the players to death but gun to my head I'm taking Nicks. Doesn't matter what numbers you throw I've never missed a game either of them have played as a Giant and I can tell you Nicks is the better player.
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BlackandBlue


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

w4rrior723 wrote:
Cruz is a great player but he's simply not the #1 Nicks is. Hakeem has more reliable hands, is more physical, and is much more of a force in the redzone. Nicks is right behind Cruz in his best area which is YAC. I love both the players to death but gun to my head I'm taking Nicks. Doesn't matter what numbers you throw I've never missed a game either of them have played as a Giant and I can tell you Nicks is the better player.


I'm almost positive Cruz has more red zone TDs in the last two years than Nicks does.

Btw, I'm a Giants fan, I've seen all of their games too.
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BlackandBlue


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:

What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?


Just about everything.


Yet this alleged superiority doesn't translate on the field at all?


Who do you think benefits more from the others presence on the field Nicks or Cruz?

Nicks is facing the #1 CB on most plays and Cruz is facing a #2 or #3. A slot guy in the modern NFL is always going to have more targets. Cruz is an amazing slot receiver but he's not putting up these numbers as a spotlighted #1 like Nicks is. Any speedy capable receiver can step into Cruz's role in this offense. The YAC may take a hit because Cruz is very good at running after the catch. No one can step into Nicks role, not even Cruz.

Let's not be coy here and compare numbers directly of a slot vs. #1 receiver. Their roles are very different. If you truly think Cruz is the more valuable guy then I seriously question your football knowledge.


Any speedy capable receiver can put 1,500 yards and 5+ touchdowns of 60 yards or longer? Yea, ok.

Again, Cruz has put up respectable numbers without Nicks in the lineup. He's put up numbers against number one receivers and when facing double teams.

I'd go so far as to say they have WRs on the roster that can fill Nicks role better than they could Cruz's.


As I stated Cruz is an amazing YAC receiver. So no not any speedy receiver can replicate his yardage and big plays. Those YAC yards are on him. What I clearly stated above is any capable speedy receiver can take over his role in the offense, albeit with a decline in YAC. Maybe you should read my posts prior to responding?

Who are these receiver can that fill Nicks role on the Giants roster?


Randle looks more than capable of being the outside receiver Nicks is.

The year the ywon the SUperbowl Nicks had 1,200 yards. You don't think Randle is capable of that in this offense?
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Gmen


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be close, but I think more Giants fans would take Nicks. Nothing against Cruz, but aside from the Patriots, the Giants probably utilize the slot receiver better than anyone in the league. Steve Smith set the Giants record for receptions from the slot position a few years ago. That slot production would be easier to replace, IMO.
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w4rrior723


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
w4rrior723 wrote:
Cruz is a great player but he's simply not the #1 Nicks is. Hakeem has more reliable hands, is more physical, and is much more of a force in the redzone. Nicks is right behind Cruz in his best area which is YAC. I love both the players to death but gun to my head I'm taking Nicks. Doesn't matter what numbers you throw I've never missed a game either of them have played as a Giant and I can tell you Nicks is the better player.


I'm almost positive Cruz has more red zone TDs in the last two years than Nicks does.

Btw, I'm a Giants fan, I've seen all of their games too.


The difference is, Cruz has plays designed for him to get open whereas Nicks has plays designed for him to be in 1v1 coverage.
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texans_uk


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

w4rrior723 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
w4rrior723 wrote:
Cruz is a great player but he's simply not the #1 Nicks is. Hakeem has more reliable hands, is more physical, and is much more of a force in the redzone. Nicks is right behind Cruz in his best area which is YAC. I love both the players to death but gun to my head I'm taking Nicks. Doesn't matter what numbers you throw I've never missed a game either of them have played as a Giant and I can tell you Nicks is the better player.


I'm almost positive Cruz has more red zone TDs in the last two years than Nicks does.

Btw, I'm a Giants fan, I've seen all of their games too.


The difference is, Cruz has plays designed for him to get open whereas Nicks has plays designed for him to be in 1v1 coverage.


Shouldn't the aim be for them both to get open?
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