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Giants WR Hakeem Nicks misses start of OTAs
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

***Update***
Quote:
Neither Giants WR, Hakeem Nicks nor Victor Cruz, showed up for team physicals today before start of Tuesday's minicamp.


http://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/statuses/344207647676964864
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

***Update***
Quote:
Hakeem Nicks is in the building!!! #MiniCamp2013 #NYG #GIANTS pic.twitter.com/yN7cxY4CQi


http://twitter.com/Weatherford5/statuses/344444369681657856


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reckless123


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody who watches the giants would know who the better receiver is. Cruz did not perform admirably in Nicks absence. He was at the best pretty good. Nicks makes this offense go. Nicks is a better redzone, better deep threat, better hands etc. Except for quickness and YAC, Nicks is better in every department. Nicks is a complete receiver and from a skill set standpoint and ability he has no flaws. He just has problems being injury free. Nicks should be the priority even with the injuries. If Nicks leaves and Cruz stays i would be livid absolutely livid. Nicks has top 5 WR ability and barring a serious injury will still get paid by somebody. If he hits the market, he is gone imo and thats why Jerry will try lock him up during the season probably,

I love Cruz, and sad to see him go but last year proved that he is very much replaceable. He is not comparable to nicks.
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
AlphaQHard wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:


Personally, I like how Billy posts things so quickly to FF's NFL News forum, even if all the facts haven't come out yet. It lets me use FF as my first, one-stop NFL news source.

Anyway, I don't buy that Nicks isn't holding out. Coughlin seemed pretty steamed in the press conference that Nicks wasn't there, and there was smoke that Nicks was unhappy with his contract before missing OTAs. I'd be surprised if this wasn't at least part of it.


same. Billy is a beast.


x3 Lay off the Billy hating Texans.

And Nicks is certainly the priority over Cruz as he should be. I would love to keep them both in blue but Nicks is the better overall receiver and more important to the system we run. If we lose Cruz I believe Randle could take over his position. We have no replacement for Nicks.


What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?

Cruz thus far has proven the better deep threat, better third down receiver, and for the past two years has been the more reliable red zone target as well.


Better on 3rd downs? I'll give you that. Redzone? Absolutely not. There is a reason why if Eli sees Nicks one on one in the redzone, he will throw to him all the time. Nicks does almost everything better.
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BlackandBlue


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
AlphaQHard wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:


Personally, I like how Billy posts things so quickly to FF's NFL News forum, even if all the facts haven't come out yet. It lets me use FF as my first, one-stop NFL news source.

Anyway, I don't buy that Nicks isn't holding out. Coughlin seemed pretty steamed in the press conference that Nicks wasn't there, and there was smoke that Nicks was unhappy with his contract before missing OTAs. I'd be surprised if this wasn't at least part of it.


same. Billy is a beast.


x3 Lay off the Billy hating Texans.

And Nicks is certainly the priority over Cruz as he should be. I would love to keep them both in blue but Nicks is the better overall receiver and more important to the system we run. If we lose Cruz I believe Randle could take over his position. We have no replacement for Nicks.


What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?

Cruz thus far has proven the better deep threat, better third down receiver, and for the past two years has been the more reliable red zone target as well.


Better on 3rd downs? I'll give you that. Redzone? Absolutely not. There is a reason why if Eli sees Nicks one on one in the redzone, he will throw to him all the time. Nicks does almost everything better.


How many red zone TDs did Nicks have the last two seasons?
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BlackandBlue


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
Anybody who watches the giants would know who the better receiver is. Cruz did not perform admirably in Nicks absence. He was at the best pretty good. Nicks makes this offense go. Nicks is a better redzone, better deep threat, better hands etc. Except for quickness and YAC, Nicks is better in every department. Nicks is a complete receiver and from a skill set standpoint and ability he has no flaws. He just has problems being injury free. Nicks should be the priority even with the injuries. If Nicks leaves and Cruz stays i would be livid absolutely livid. Nicks has top 5 WR ability and barring a serious injury will still get paid by somebody. If he hits the market, he is gone imo and thats why Jerry will try lock him up during the season probably,

I love Cruz, and sad to see him go but last year proved that he is very much replaceable. He is not comparable to nicks.


From an earlier post of mine:

Quote:
In the three games Nicks missed last year, Cruz had 201 yards and 4 touchdowns. That's 67 yards a game (1,072 yards when pro rated to a 16 game season) and 1.3 touchdowns a game. Mind you in the Panthers game they stopped trying to pass halfway through because it was a blow out.

What about 2011? In the Patriots game, the only one Nicks missed, Cruz had 91 yards for 15.2 yards a pop.


And this was playing alongside the likes of Barden and Hixon.

In other words, you literally are just making things up.
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
AlphaQHard wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:


Personally, I like how Billy posts things so quickly to FF's NFL News forum, even if all the facts haven't come out yet. It lets me use FF as my first, one-stop NFL news source.

Anyway, I don't buy that Nicks isn't holding out. Coughlin seemed pretty steamed in the press conference that Nicks wasn't there, and there was smoke that Nicks was unhappy with his contract before missing OTAs. I'd be surprised if this wasn't at least part of it.


same. Billy is a beast.


x3 Lay off the Billy hating Texans.

And Nicks is certainly the priority over Cruz as he should be. I would love to keep them both in blue but Nicks is the better overall receiver and more important to the system we run. If we lose Cruz I believe Randle could take over his position. We have no replacement for Nicks.


What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?

Cruz thus far has proven the better deep threat, better third down receiver, and for the past two years has been the more reliable red zone target as well.


Better on 3rd downs? I'll give you that. Redzone? Absolutely not. There is a reason why if Eli sees Nicks one on one in the redzone, he will throw to him all the time. Nicks does almost everything better.


How many red zone TDs did Nicks have the last two seasons?


I wont even count last year Nicks only had one leg. But as for 2011, i believe he had 5 redzone TDs and the year he missed 3 games he had at 7 if im not mistaken. And Nicks gets attention in the redzone. If Eli sees him one on one, you better Eli is throwing him the ball. And this whole business about Cruz having 200 yards in his absence and 4 touchdowns, 3 of them were in one game against the Browns who were without their best corner. The other one was against the eagles. Big whoop. Nicks does almost everything better than Cruz. Better release, better deep threat, better redzone, better hands, better catch radius, more physical, better catcher in traffic, can i go on? Cruz has the edge in YAC and i guess is quicker and a better third down receiver (which isnt saying much because the best 3rd receivers tend to be slot receivers). Imo its laughable to suggest Cruz is better. I love Cruz, but he proved he is replaceable last year. He is a more explosive Steve Smith, thats how i see him.
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BlackandBlue


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
AlphaQHard wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:


Personally, I like how Billy posts things so quickly to FF's NFL News forum, even if all the facts haven't come out yet. It lets me use FF as my first, one-stop NFL news source.

Anyway, I don't buy that Nicks isn't holding out. Coughlin seemed pretty steamed in the press conference that Nicks wasn't there, and there was smoke that Nicks was unhappy with his contract before missing OTAs. I'd be surprised if this wasn't at least part of it.


same. Billy is a beast.


x3 Lay off the Billy hating Texans.

And Nicks is certainly the priority over Cruz as he should be. I would love to keep them both in blue but Nicks is the better overall receiver and more important to the system we run. If we lose Cruz I believe Randle could take over his position. We have no replacement for Nicks.


What exactly does Nicks do better than Cruz?

Cruz thus far has proven the better deep threat, better third down receiver, and for the past two years has been the more reliable red zone target as well.


Better on 3rd downs? I'll give you that. Redzone? Absolutely not. There is a reason why if Eli sees Nicks one on one in the redzone, he will throw to him all the time. Nicks does almost everything better.


How many red zone TDs did Nicks have the last two seasons?


I wont even count last year Nicks only had one leg. But as for 2011, i believe he had 5 redzone TDs and the year he missed 3 games he had at 7 if im not mistaken. And Nicks gets attention in the redzone. If Eli sees him one on one, you better Eli is throwing him the ball.[b] And this whole business about Cruz having 200 yards in his absence and 4 touchdowns, 3 of them were in one game against the Browns who were without their best corner. The other one was against the eagles. Big whoop. Nicks does almost everything better than Cruz. Better release, [b]better deep threat, better redzone, better hands, better catch radius, more physical, better catcher in traffic, can i go on? Cruz has the edge in YAC and i guess is quicker and a better third down receiver (which isnt saying much because the best 3rd receivers tend to be slot receivers). Imo its laughable to suggest Cruz is better. I love Cruz, but he proved he is replaceable last year. He is a more explosive Steve Smith, thats how i see him.


This isn't backed up by stats or the eye test.

YOU'RE the one who said Cruz didn't play well when Nicks was out. It's demonstrably false.

And this whole nonense about Cruz not facing off against top recievers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iC9aB_IJ0Dk#t=8s

That was a TD against Richard Sherman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iC9aB_IJ0Dk#t=94s

A TD against Asomugha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_5zpBaJ9V8&feature=player_detailpage#t=273s

ANOTHER TD against Asomugha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_5zpBaJ9V8&feature=player_detailpage#t=299s

A 35 yard catch against Tramon Williams

That's three touchdowns and a huge play against the opposing team's number one corner. What gives?
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:

This isn't backed up by stats or the eye test.

YOU'RE the one who said Cruz didn't play well when Nicks was out. It's demonstrably false.

And this whole nonense about Cruz not facing off against top recievers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iC9aB_IJ0Dk#t=8s

That was a TD against Richard Sherman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iC9aB_IJ0Dk#t=94s

A TD against Asomugha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_5zpBaJ9V8&feature=player_detailpage#t=273s

ANOTHER TD against Asomugha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_5zpBaJ9V8&feature=player_detailpage#t=299s

A 35 yard catch against Tramon Williams

That's three touchdowns and a huge play against the opposing team's number one corner. What gives?


If by the eye test you cannot tell Nicks is better then i question what you see. Wow a handful of plays. The one against Sherman was where he was a rookie and seahawks fans will tell you he was a different player back then and you ignore the fact that Cruz had no business catching that ball. It was underthrown and shouldve been intercepted. NIcks makes plays against #1 every game. Cruz was decent when Nicks was out. 1000 yard season playing a 16 game season is not as big an accomplishment as you make it out to be. Nicks' best season is you could argue his 1200 yard season but he missed one game and played a number games not healthy. Youre probably on your own if you think Cruz is better and i wouldnt want you to be GM for the giants.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its kind of surprising, given the current state of his injury-prone...ness I don't see why the giants would cave
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Its kind of surprising, given the current state of his injury-prone...ness I don't see why the giants would cave


Im actually of the belief that barring a serious injury meaning ACL or achilles. He will get paid the money he will demand. At least one team will look over his injuries and pay him the money of a top 10 WR.
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BlackandBlue


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:

This isn't backed up by stats or the eye test.

YOU'RE the one who said Cruz didn't play well when Nicks was out. It's demonstrably false.

And this whole nonense about Cruz not facing off against top recievers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iC9aB_IJ0Dk#t=8s

That was a TD against Richard Sherman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iC9aB_IJ0Dk#t=94s

A TD against Asomugha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_5zpBaJ9V8&feature=player_detailpage#t=273s

ANOTHER TD against Asomugha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_5zpBaJ9V8&feature=player_detailpage#t=299s

A 35 yard catch against Tramon Williams

That's three touchdowns and a huge play against the opposing team's number one corner. What gives?


If by the eye test you cannot tell Nicks is better then i question what you see. Wow a handful of plays. The one against Sherman was where he was a rookie and seahawks fans will tell you he was a different player back then and you ignore the fact that Cruz had no business catching that ball. It was underthrown and shouldve been intercepted. NIcks makes plays against #1 every game. Cruz was decent when Nicks was out. 1000 yard season playing a 16 game season is not as big an accomplishment as you make it out to be. Nicks' best season is you could argue his 1200 yard season but he missed one game and played a number games not healthy. Youre probably on your own if you think Cruz is better and i wouldnt want you to be GM for the giants.


Most teams' corners do not switch sides of the field. The idea that Cruz saw the vast majority of the time against the team's best corner while Cruz faced scrubs is delusional, to be honest.

And Sherman was a good corner last year. Better than the number one corners for the Cowboys, Redskins, and Eagles at least, who according to you faced Nicks almost exclusively for about a third of the season.

Do you even have snap breakdowns for the corners each receiver had on them? You're making a ton of unsubstantiated claims here.
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:


Most teams' corners do not switch sides of the field. The idea that Cruz saw the vast majority of the time against the team's best corner while Cruz faced scrubs is delusional, to be honest.

And Sherman was a good corner last year. Better than the number one corners for the Cowboys, Redskins, and Eagles at least, who according to you faced Nicks almost exclusively for about a third of the season.

Do you even have snap breakdowns for the corners each receiver had on them? You're making a ton of unsubstantiated claims here.


Nicks most of the time got the #1 receivers. Cruz spent the majority of the time in slot. The times we would put him outside he would be ineffective.

I dont have Cruz's numbers from 2012. But in 2011 he had 448 snaps in slot and had 1379 yards from that position. And 75 receptions from that position. However i read somewhere he spent approx. 70 % of his snaps in the slot.

I never said Cruz faced scrubs, but without question more times than not he doesnt face the best receiver. In the one game which Nicks was closed to healthy vs Tampa, Nicks had Talib for the majority of the game and i dont remember Talib matching up Cruz once.

Seahawks fans say Sherman was good in 2nd half of they year in 2011. And we played them in week 5.

The point is that Cruz more times than not will not face the teams best receiver.
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