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Patriots to Sign Tim Tebow
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TheNutGronker


Joined: 25 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's get this sorted out now. The Patriots have 13 years of sustained success to give them the benefit of the doubt when signing Tebow. The Jets were a freaking circus, and deserve every bit of ball busting they got when they signed him. That's the difference between the two organizations signing the same player and the difference in opinion on how "good" a move is for those two teams. Ok. Now that that's off my chest...Julian Edelman replacement anyone?
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheNutGronker wrote:
Let's get this sorted out now. The Patriots have 13 years of sustained success to give them the benefit of the doubt when signing Tebow. The Jets were a freaking circus, and deserve every bit of ball busting they got when they signed him. That's the difference between the two organizations signing the same player and the difference in opinion on how "good" a move is for those two teams. Ok. Now that that's off my chest...Julian Edelman replacement anyone?


He's nothing like Julian Edelman - who is still on the roster.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheNutGronker wrote:
Let's get this sorted out now. The Patriots have 13 years of sustained success to give them the benefit of the doubt when signing Tebow. The Jets were a freaking circus, and deserve every bit of ball busting they got when they signed him. That's the difference between the two organizations signing the same player and the difference in opinion on how "good" a move is for those two teams. Ok. Now that that's off my chest...Julian Edelman replacement anyone?
Why does New England get the benefit of the doubt? They have had a slew of "resurgance of a player career" signings that failed at every level; Albert Haynesworth, Chad Johnson, Kellen Winslow, Joey Galloway, etc. We could go on and on with all of them. It's actually been quite rare that this type of signing worked out for them. You've got Moss and Dillon, and then a bunch of failures. So why the benefit of the doubt? Because they have Tom Brady, and he's brought stability to the team and an ability to mask the deficiencies of the team despite these Free Agent mistakes?
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TheNutGronker


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
TheNutGronker wrote:
Let's get this sorted out now. The Patriots have 13 years of sustained success to give them the benefit of the doubt when signing Tebow. The Jets were a freaking circus, and deserve every bit of ball busting they got when they signed him. That's the difference between the two organizations signing the same player and the difference in opinion on how "good" a move is for those two teams. Ok. Now that that's off my chest...Julian Edelman replacement anyone?


He's nothing like Julian Edelman - who is still on the roster.

Isn't he on his final year? I was more drawing comparisons to them being QBs in college and are both pretty good in the open field as maybe a 3rd or 4th receiver
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TheNutGronker


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
TheNutGronker wrote:
Let's get this sorted out now. The Patriots have 13 years of sustained success to give them the benefit of the doubt when signing Tebow. The Jets were a freaking circus, and deserve every bit of ball busting they got when they signed him. That's the difference between the two organizations signing the same player and the difference in opinion on how "good" a move is for those two teams. Ok. Now that that's off my chest...Julian Edelman replacement anyone?
Why does New England get the benefit of the doubt? They have had a slew of "resurgance of a player career" signings that failed at every level; Albert Haynesworth, Chad Johnson, Kellen Winslow, Joey Galloway, etc. We could go on and on with all of them. It's actually been quite rare that this type of signing worked out for them. You've got Moss and Dillon, and then a bunch of failures. So why the benefit of the doubt? Because they have Tom Brady, and he's brought stability to the team and an ability to mask the deficiencies of the team despite these Free Agent mistakes?


Has nothing to do with their free agency history and everything to do with them being a winning organization that knows what it's doing, and isn't signing players for the sake of making headline news
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Socraticsilence


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
Socraticsilence wrote:
Dus10 wrote:
In an age where sporting stories are milked well past their expiration date and we have to sit through 24 hour coverage from multiple sports networks....

The fascination with this man makes zero sense to me. No hate but his appeal is lost on me.


The off-the-field stuff + Charisma + Comebacks + Arguably the greatest college football player of all time.

Maybe if you were born in (or started watching college football only in) the past two decades.

The "greatest college football player ever" would have been relegated to the bench and goal-line glorified RB detail by Chris Leak and then had to have the offensive scheme adapted to fit him.

I don't think Tebow even qualifies for Top 5 greatest college football players even if you limit it just to offensive players (if you throw in defensive players he doesn't even remotely qualify for Top 10).


In what way was Meyer's offense adapted for Tebow-- that's just an ignorant statement.
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GangGreen420


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheNutGronker wrote:
iPwn wrote:
TheNutGronker wrote:
Let's get this sorted out now. The Patriots have 13 years of sustained success to give them the benefit of the doubt when signing Tebow. The Jets were a freaking circus, and deserve every bit of ball busting they got when they signed him. That's the difference between the two organizations signing the same player and the difference in opinion on how "good" a move is for those two teams. Ok. Now that that's off my chest...Julian Edelman replacement anyone?
Why does New England get the benefit of the doubt? They have had a slew of "resurgance of a player career" signings that failed at every level; Albert Haynesworth, Chad Johnson, Kellen Winslow, Joey Galloway, etc. We could go on and on with all of them. It's actually been quite rare that this type of signing worked out for them. You've got Moss and Dillon, and then a bunch of failures. So why the benefit of the doubt? Because they have Tom Brady, and he's brought stability to the team and an ability to mask the deficiencies of the team despite these Free Agent mistakes?


Has nothing to do with their free agency history and everything to do with them being a winning organization that knows what it's doing, and isn't signing players for the sake of making headline news


Still, Tebow isn't going to do anything of importance in New England. Nada. Im not really sure why they signed him.
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TheNutGronker


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GangGreen420 wrote:
TheNutGronker wrote:
iPwn wrote:
TheNutGronker wrote:
Let's get this sorted out now. The Patriots have 13 years of sustained success to give them the benefit of the doubt when signing Tebow. The Jets were a freaking circus, and deserve every bit of ball busting they got when they signed him. That's the difference between the two organizations signing the same player and the difference in opinion on how "good" a move is for those two teams. Ok. Now that that's off my chest...Julian Edelman replacement anyone?
Why does New England get the benefit of the doubt? They have had a slew of "resurgance of a player career" signings that failed at every level; Albert Haynesworth, Chad Johnson, Kellen Winslow, Joey Galloway, etc. We could go on and on with all of them. It's actually been quite rare that this type of signing worked out for them. You've got Moss and Dillon, and then a bunch of failures. So why the benefit of the doubt? Because they have Tom Brady, and he's brought stability to the team and an ability to mask the deficiencies of the team despite these Free Agent mistakes?


Has nothing to do with their free agency history and everything to do with them being a winning organization that knows what it's doing, and isn't signing players for the sake of making headline news


Still, Tebow isn't going to do anything of importance in New England. Nada. Im not really sure why they signed him.

Maybe not, but I'm saying this is why nobody's mocking the move too much. They know the Pats know what to do with the guy
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GangGreen420 wrote:


Still, Tebow isn't going to do anything of importance in New England. Nada. Im not really sure why they signed him.



To drum up interest, draw attention to the oragnization and potentially sell apparel in the future if things miraculously work out. Kind of like your JETS. Anything more is gravy or icing on the cake IMO. Notice how no one is talking anymore about Gronks 100th surgery, Wes Welker in Den, His replacement in Amendola or the Wr not here for Brady from last years team? It's 24/7 Timmy Football coverage nothing else need apply. Either he is able to convert to another position (non QB related) or the next two months worth of media coverage will have absolutely nothing to do with whats listed above until he is cut. There is a reason he is getting ZERO MONEY guaranteed on a 2 year deal and Belicheck when asked giving no position/info as to how he will be utilized. He's a glorified camp body who happens to have his own cult following. I'm just glad NE wasn't dumb enough to give the man his own press conference. Rolling Eyes
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Socraticsilence wrote:
The LBC wrote:
Socraticsilence wrote:
Dus10 wrote:
In an age where sporting stories are milked well past their expiration date and we have to sit through 24 hour coverage from multiple sports networks....

The fascination with this man makes zero sense to me. No hate but his appeal is lost on me.


The off-the-field stuff + Charisma + Comebacks + Arguably the greatest college football player of all time.

Maybe if you were born in (or started watching college football only in) the past two decades.

The "greatest college football player ever" would have been relegated to the bench and goal-line glorified RB detail by Chris Leak and then had to have the offensive scheme adapted to fit him.

I don't think Tebow even qualifies for Top 5 greatest college football players even if you limit it just to offensive players (if you throw in defensive players he doesn't even remotely qualify for Top 10).


In what way was Meyer's offense adapted for Tebow-- that's just an ignorant statement.

Again, history existed prior to Tim Tebow at Florida. Go back and have a look-see at Meyer's offensive scheme when he was coaching at Utah with Alex Smith as his QB or even, though to a lesser extent, at Bowling Green when Josh Harris was his QB. There are similar elements to those schemes and the one run with Tebow under center, but there are also distinct differences - most notably less of an emphasis on the current incarnation of the designed read-option (they used motion in the backfield similar to a more traditional double- or triple-option), and the version of the spread put more emphasis on short-passing akin to the Walsh WCO... in part because Smith and Harris (and Leak) had superior short-range accuracy and quicker delivery than Tebow did/does.

The ignorant statement (or at the very least extremely shortsighted one) is calling Tim Tebow the greatest college football player in history.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
GangGreen420 wrote:


Still, Tebow isn't going to do anything of importance in New England. Nada. Im not really sure why they signed him.



To drum up interest, draw attention to the oragnization and potentially sell apparel in the future if things miraculously work out. Kind of like your JETS. Anything more is gravy or icing on the cake IMO. Notice how no one is talking anymore about Gronks 100th surgery, Wes Welker in Den, His replacement in Amendola or the Wr not here for Brady from last years team? It's 24/7 Timmy Football coverage nothing else need apply. Either he is able to convert to another position (non QB related) or the next two months worth of media coverage will have absolutely nothing to do with whats listed above until he is cut. There is a reason he is getting ZERO MONEY guaranteed on a 2 year deal and Belicheck when asked giving no position/info as to how he will be utilized. He's a glorified camp body who happens to have his own cult following. I'm just glad NE wasn't dumb enough to give the man his own press conference. Rolling Eyes

You hit the nail on the head here. I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest if BB is almost counting on Tebow not making the roster, but is - as always - using this as a function of some larger aim (like lighting a fire under the backsides of more deserving/productive players that he can channel into in-season performance on the field).

All in all, I get the feeling this may be the last stop for Tebow unless he shows a willingness to convert positions - or honestly if he does. McDaniels (the guy who went out on the limb to draft Tebow in Denver) is the OC in New England. And Belichick is the type of coach who isn't going to blow smoke up anyone's butt - if, after camp and what not, he determines Tim Tebow doesn't have a future at the quarterback position, he's not going to shy away from telling him as such and that his chances of sticking on the team will be contingent on his willingness to change positions. It is a bit absurd, as some (or at least one or two in the past couple pages) are doing, to just assume that Tebow's going to willingly move away from the QB position just because he's now coached by BB. Both of those men have very substantial egos and one isn't automatically going to trump the other.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheNutGronker wrote:
GangGreen420 wrote:
TheNutGronker wrote:
iPwn wrote:
TheNutGronker wrote:
Let's get this sorted out now. The Patriots have 13 years of sustained success to give them the benefit of the doubt when signing Tebow. The Jets were a freaking circus, and deserve every bit of ball busting they got when they signed him. That's the difference between the two organizations signing the same player and the difference in opinion on how "good" a move is for those two teams. Ok. Now that that's off my chest...Julian Edelman replacement anyone?
Why does New England get the benefit of the doubt? They have had a slew of "resurgance of a player career" signings that failed at every level; Albert Haynesworth, Chad Johnson, Kellen Winslow, Joey Galloway, etc. We could go on and on with all of them. It's actually been quite rare that this type of signing worked out for them. You've got Moss and Dillon, and then a bunch of failures. So why the benefit of the doubt? Because they have Tom Brady, and he's brought stability to the team and an ability to mask the deficiencies of the team despite these Free Agent mistakes?


Has nothing to do with their free agency history and everything to do with them being a winning organization that knows what it's doing, and isn't signing players for the sake of making headline news


Still, Tebow isn't going to do anything of importance in New England. Nada. Im not really sure why they signed him.

Maybe not, but I'm saying this is why nobody's mocking the move too much. They know the Pats know what to do with the guy

The point I believe some are trying to make is that it's not a huge secret "what needs to be done with the guy"... most coaching staffs worth their pay know it, any coaching staff that has had Tebow on the roster knows it, and (whether he wants to accept it or not) I only half doubt that Tim Tebow knows it.

The issue is that Tebow is still dead set on the notion that he can/is/should be a QB at the NFL level when he hasn't shown to have the requisite tools. You can go right ahead and blindly assume that all of a sudden now because he's in New England that he'll just bend and decide he's open to a position change (I'd say it's actually less likely in New England than it would have been in say Green Bay or San Francisco because the current OC in NE is the guy who drafted Tebow to be his franchise QB when he was head coach in Denver... thus Tebow's going to have reason to believe that he's viewed and has been brought in to be a QB), but there's little to substantiate that claim other than blind faith.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheNutGronker wrote:
Has nothing to do with their free agency history and everything to do with them being a winning organization that knows what it's doing, and isn't signing players for the sake of making headline news
Like they knew what they were doing with all those other signings? It doesn't make any sense to give them the benefit of the doubt. The Patriots have a history of making poor FA moves that fit this type of mold, and I have no reason to believe this will be any different, nor should anyone else.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
TheNutGronker wrote:
Has nothing to do with their free agency history and everything to do with them being a winning organization that knows what it's doing, and isn't signing players for the sake of making headline news
Like they knew what they were doing with all those other signings? It doesn't make any sense to give them the benefit of the doubt. The Patriots have a history of making poor FA moves that fit this type of mold, and I have no reason to believe this will be any different, nor should anyone else.


This isn't some major FA acquisition though is it? This is a minor roster move for LITERALLY no guaranteed money. If we cut him today, nothing will happen. If he helps us in any way, then it's a good signing.

EDIT: At lest we didn't give up a draft pick like we did for Chad Ochocinco, Albert Haynesworth of Greg Salas.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
TheNutGronker wrote:
Has nothing to do with their free agency history and everything to do with them being a winning organization that knows what it's doing, and isn't signing players for the sake of making headline news
Like they knew what they were doing with all those other signings? It doesn't make any sense to give them the benefit of the doubt. The Patriots have a history of making poor FA moves that fit this type of mold, and I have no reason to believe this will be any different, nor should anyone else.


I disagree with describing those as "poor moves" - I would say a poor FA move is overpaying, or rewarding 1 year of production or something like that. Galloway was roster fodder, Chad was cheap, Albert was cheap - it's low risk high reward situations. At the end of the day, its on the players to play well - the role of the GM is simply to minimize damage to the organisation in the event the player doesn't work out.

Signing Haynesworth to 100m contract? Poor decision.
Signing him to a small, cuttable deal? Worth the risk, if he tries.
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