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Packers to part ways with LB Desmond Bishop
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CriminalMind


Joined: 25 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be fine to see him at WLB

SLB - Chad Greenway
MLB - Erin Henderson
WLB - Desmond Bishop

Our young guys can be subbed in, when needed or in packages.
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MNPackfan32


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
All I said was in all the years of the Vikings signing ex-Packers they haven't won a Super Bowl doing it. Is that true or false?

actually what you said was that the Vikings "feed off the Packers' trash." Is that true or false?

Darren Sharper was hardly trash when he left GB. nor was Ryan Longwell, when your kicker at the time was... well... pretty trashy. and Favre had a great first year with the Vikes.

hardly trash players. just bias on your part and cheap shots.


MNPackfan32 wrote:
Always happy feeding off of the Packers trash... SMH.
I certainly did say that. You know why? Because it is true. Maybe they did have some nice moments, still the guys we rolled with won us a Super Bowl. Hard to argue those results. The year we won the Super Bowl their replacements played a lot better than the guys we let go. Favre was terrible, Longwell a non factor and Sharper off the team. None of those guys were the same players they were in Green Bay and they were cheaper in Green Bay for the most part. At the end of the day all that counts is Super Bowls, Rodgers, Collins and to a much lesser extent, Crosby got the job done for us. Favre, Sharper and Longwell didn't for you guys. Plain and simple, we made the right moves.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't just look at those three players and say that since Minnesota didn't win a Super Bowl it was a poor decision. Do the dolphins regret having Dan Marino as its qb? He didn't win them a ring after all. The vikes not winning a Super Bowl shouldnt take away the positive impact sharper, longwell and favre did have. Those guys aren't the entire reason why mn didn't win won, there too many other factors.
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MNPackfan32


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
You can't just look at those three players and say that since Minnesota didn't win a Super Bowl it was a poor decision. Do the dolphins regret having Dan Marino as its qb? He didn't win them a ring after all. The vikes not winning a Super Bowl shouldnt take away the positive impact sharper, longwell and favre did have. Those guys aren't the entire reason why mn didn't win won, there too many other factors.
Marino is not a point in this discussion. Every time we have let a guy go, they were not the same player they were in Green Bay, and the next guy in has gotten the job done. Now Crosby had a terrible year last year, but in 2010 he was good enough. Did Favre and Sharper have some tread left when we let them go? Sure, some. But they weren't the same players they were in Green Bay. I am saying from a winning prospective, Thompson has been right on every move I can remember. Who was the last veteran guy we got rid of that you can say "Damn, I bet they regret that and will for years to come?"
If TT releases a guy like Bishop, who has a manageable cap number and used to be a starter, something tells me he is done. We have excellent doctors and there is good communication between them and the Front Office. Bishop was a nice player when he was healthy, but it seems pretty obvious he isn't. We don't just up and cut players for no reason.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Green bays situation shouldn't apply to Minnesotas in this case. If bishop becomes a good starter for a few seasons, signs a modest contract but the Vikings never win a Super Bowl as starter, would you consider that a failed signing? This is essentially the case with sharper and longwell. Mn still got a few good seasons but where they failed was drafting along the way pre 2012
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

err... Sharper played on a winning Super Bowl team. was he a "trash player," as you cited earlier? that's my point. your hyperbole in calling GB players trash once they leave the team is based only on bias.

are you saying a player is "trash" only if they don't win a Super Bowl? or only if they don't win one with GB?

either way, you boxed yourself in to a corner by calling these players "trash" when they continued to have strong years post-GB. (Longwell, i believe, led the NFL in FG accuracy after leaving, for example.) a bigger man would admit his mistake and poor choice of wording, but i won't hold my cyber breath.
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MNPackfan32


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Green bays situation shouldn't apply to Minnesotas in this case. If bishop becomes a good starter for a few seasons, signs a modest contract but the Vikings never win a Super Bowl as starter, would you consider that a failed signing? This is essentially the case with sharper and longwell. Mn still got a few good seasons but where they failed was drafting along the way pre 2012
Well, when you sign players, especially veteran players you are looking for a quick fix. If you don't win a Super Bowl, you did not do what you set out to do. It can still be a ok signing, but if you don't win a Super Bowl it is still a disappointment. Nobody cares about just making it to the playoffs.
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ugLymayNe


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
I would be fine to see him at WLB

SLB - Chad Greenway
MLB - Erin Henderson
WLB - Desmond Bishop

Our young guys can be subbed in, when needed or in packages.



So, you want to take a an already slow player coming off of a ruptured hamstring(that hasn't been practicing because of set backs) and put him at a position that demands probably the most athletic ability? Errright. Bishop would be your Mike if you sign him, guaranteed. It is the only position he knows how to play.


I mean, if you Viking fans want your team to sign him...fine by me. As a Packer fan I hope it happens after what I saw out of him in 2011 and knowing the injury history behind the injury he had.
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
You can't just look at those three players and say that since Minnesota didn't win a Super Bowl it was a poor decision. Do the dolphins regret having Dan Marino as its qb? He didn't win them a ring after all. The vikes not winning a Super Bowl shouldnt take away the positive impact sharper, longwell and favre did have. Those guys aren't the entire reason why mn didn't win won, there too many other factors.
Marino is not a point in this discussion. Every time we have let a guy go, they were not the same player they were in Green Bay, and the next guy in has gotten the job done. Now Crosby had a terrible year last year, but in 2010 he was good enough. Did Favre and Sharper have some tread left when we let them go? Sure, some. But they weren't the same players they were in Green Bay. I am saying from a winning prospective, Thompson has been right on every move I can remember. Who was the last veteran guy we got rid of that you can say "Damn, I bet they regret that and will for years to come?"
If TT releases a guy like Bishop, who has a manageable cap number and used to be a starter, something tells me he is done. We have excellent doctors and there is good communication between them and the Front Office. Bishop was a nice player when he was healthy, but it seems pretty obvious he isn't. We don't just up and cut players for no reason.


Some tread left? Yeah sure, but that only really applied to Favre, and even then he had a stellar season year 1.

Both Sharper and Longwell were very good players for us. Its just we didn't have a strong overall team to put it all together. We aren't a one man team like Greenbay is with Aaron Rodgers.

By no means will Bishop push us over the top, but he would be a nice stopgap player who be another piece to the puzzle for us.

and really, if you haven't noticed, Minnesota isn't building through Greenbay. We're building through the draft.
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ugLymayNe


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
By no means will Bishop push us over the top, but he would be a nice stopgap player who be another piece to the puzzle for us



This is where I'm confused. What do you think you'll actually get out of a LB that can't play sideline to sideline or can be trusted in coverage vs TEs/athletic RBs?


My point is: If he isn't good enough to start at ILB for the Packers, he is a below average player considering we are VERY average at that position(very average putting it nicely).
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ugLymayNe wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
I would be fine to see him at WLB

SLB - Chad Greenway
MLB - Erin Henderson
WLB - Desmond Bishop

Our young guys can be subbed in, when needed or in packages.



So, you want to take a an already slow player coming off of a ruptured hamstring(that hasn't been practicing because of set backs) and put him at a position that demands probably the most athletic ability? Errright. Bishop would be your Mike if you sign him, guaranteed. It is the only position he knows how to play.


I mean, if you Viking fans want your team to sign him...fine by me. As a Packer fan I hope it happens after what I saw out of him in 2011 and knowing the injury history behind the injury he had.


You dont understand how the Vikings use its WOLB, do you. They dont use a WLB like you would expect for most teams, or for most Tampa 2 teams.

The Vikes rely on Erin Henderson to take on blocks to free the MLB and SLB. That is why Greenway and the MLB usually lead the LBs in tackles. Really, a physically strong player who can take on blocks and seal the edge is what the Vikes have preferred at WLB. From EJ Henderson in 2006 when he was a WLB, to his brother.

The Vikes most athletic LB should ideally be the MLB. Therefore, I actually think Bishop is best suited at WLB but Bishop would make for a better MLB then Erin Henderson, assuming Bishop is healthy.
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MNPackfan32


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
ugLymayNe wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
I would be fine to see him at WLB

SLB - Chad Greenway
MLB - Erin Henderson
WLB - Desmond Bishop

Our young guys can be subbed in, when needed or in packages.



So, you want to take a an already slow player coming off of a ruptured hamstring(that hasn't been practicing because of set backs) and put him at a position that demands probably the most athletic ability? Errright. Bishop would be your Mike if you sign him, guaranteed. It is the only position he knows how to play.


I mean, if you Viking fans want your team to sign him...fine by me. As a Packer fan I hope it happens after what I saw out of him in 2011 and knowing the injury history behind the injury he had.


You dont understand how the Vikings use its WOLB, do you. They dont use a WLB like you would expect for most teams, or for most Tampa 2 teams.

The Vikes rely on Erin Henderson to take on blocks to free the MLB and SLB. That is why Greenway and the MLB usually lead the LBs in tackles. Really, a physically strong player who can take on blocks and seal the edge is what the Vikes have preferred at WLB. From EJ Henderson in 2006 when he was a WLB, to his brother.

The Vikes most athletic LB should ideally be the MLB. Therefore, I actually think Bishop is best suited at WLB but Bishop would make for a better MLB then Erin Henderson, assuming Bishop is healthy.
And that is the exact opposite of what he did in Green Bay. Hawk was always the guy who ate up blocks. Bishop was almost always the free man. And in 2010 when Bishop played his best, that was when Raji was going GOAT mode at the end of the year. Once Raji regressed in 2011 Bishop wasn't the same player. I can't see those legs holding up real well if the play is for him to take on blockers all game long.
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MNPackfan32


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
err... Sharper played on a winning Super Bowl team. was he a "trash player," as you cited earlier? that's my point. your hyperbole in calling GB players trash once they leave the team is based only on bias.

are you saying a player is "trash" only if they don't win a Super Bowl? or only if they don't win one with GB?

either way, you boxed yourself in to a corner by calling these players "trash" when they continued to have strong years post-GB. (Longwell, i believe, led the NFL in FG accuracy after leaving, for example.) a bigger man would admit his mistake and poor choice of wording, but i won't hold my cyber breath.
So was Sharper the same player he was after he left Green Bay? How about Favre? Was he as good as those MVP years? They just weren't the same old players.

Want me to go farther? Tramon Williams, that dude is a shell of his former self, the guy is washed up, trash. You can see this stuff coming. Tramon is in the same boat as Bishop, had a great 2010, injuries derailed him and now he is on the verge of not having a job. He shows bits and clips of his old self ever once in a blue moon but he ain't the same guy. And no matter how much any GB fan wants to defend him, he is exactly what I said, a shell of what he was. Maybe his shoulder will get back, but I doubt it. In a year we will probably be talking about him as more of our cast off trash.
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Pugger


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
err... Sharper played on a winning Super Bowl team. was he a "trash player," as you cited earlier? that's my point. your hyperbole in calling GB players trash once they leave the team is based only on bias.

are you saying a player is "trash" only if they don't win a Super Bowl? or only if they don't win one with GB?

either way, you boxed yourself in to a corner by calling these players "trash" when they continued to have strong years post-GB. (Longwell, i believe, led the NFL in FG accuracy after leaving, for example.) a bigger man would admit his mistake and poor choice of wording, but i won't hold my cyber breath.
So was Sharper the same player he was after he left Green Bay? How about Favre? Was he as good as those MVP years? They just weren't the same old players.

Want me to go farther? Tramon Williams, that dude is a shell of his former self, the guy is washed up, trash. You can see this stuff coming. Tramon is in the same boat as Bishop, had a great 2010, injuries derailed him and now he is on the verge of not having a job. He shows bits and clips of his old self ever once in a blue moon but he ain't the same guy. And no matter how much any GB fan wants to defend him, he is exactly what I said, a shell of what he was. Maybe his shoulder will get back, but I doubt it. In a year we will probably be talking about him as more of our cast off trash.


I'm not ready to throw Williams out with the bath water. His shoulder was still messed up last year. From everything being reported he is healthy now. If he is still playing lousy this season then his days in GB are numbered.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
err... Sharper played on a winning Super Bowl team. was he a "trash player," as you cited earlier? that's my point. your hyperbole in calling GB players trash once they leave the team is based only on bias.

are you saying a player is "trash" only if they don't win a Super Bowl? or only if they don't win one with GB?

either way, you boxed yourself in to a corner by calling these players "trash" when they continued to have strong years post-GB. (Longwell, i believe, led the NFL in FG accuracy after leaving, for example.) a bigger man would admit his mistake and poor choice of wording, but i won't hold my cyber breath.
So was Sharper the same player he was after he left Green Bay? How about Favre? Was he as good as those MVP years? They just weren't the same old players.

Want me to go farther? Tramon Williams, that dude is a shell of his former self, the guy is washed up, trash. You can see this stuff coming. Tramon is in the same boat as Bishop, had a great 2010, injuries derailed him and now he is on the verge of not having a job. He shows bits and clips of his old self ever once in a blue moon but he ain't the same guy. And no matter how much any GB fan wants to defend him, he is exactly what I said, a shell of what he was. Maybe his shoulder will get back, but I doubt it. In a year we will probably be talking about him as more of our cast off trash.


But is trash really a good choice of words here? Of course a player will wont be as effective as they were in their prime, players do age and become less effective. This is always the case. However, you cant call Sharper trash after the pro bowl years he had in MN and NO. In addition to Longwell being a stud kicker from 2006 until 2011. And Favre's 2009 season. A trash player to me implies that a player was let go and did nothing after they left Gb, which clearly is not the case here.
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