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NFL fines Bears LB Jon Bostic $21,000 for hit on Chargers WR
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pigsooie5


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 4145
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keleth wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
Keleth wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
cddolphin wrote:
Dear NFL,

Big hits don't mean they're dirty hits.

- the fans



Dear Fans,

You're going to keep watching no matter what we do, anyway.

- the NFL

Somebody should stand up for the NFL as a whole. Makes an even more brutal hit, get fined, pull a Mark Cuban and pay double. Saying FU Goodell. I swear thats what I'd do.

The worst part about this for me, Is does it make Bostic alter the way he plays his game? Because Goodell likes flexing his muscles? Absolute JOKE.


/sigh

Great contribution homeboy /sigh /sigh /sigh /sigh /sigh
Looks like I can do it too.

The part i quoted was not worth more comment.
I see nothing wrong with the tackle and the fine is a joke.

There you go. The fine was a joke, along with your post.
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pigsooie5


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 4145
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
Keleth wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
cddolphin wrote:
Dear NFL,

Big hits don't mean they're dirty hits.

- the fans



Dear Fans,

You're going to keep watching no matter what we do, anyway.

- the NFL

Somebody should stand up for the NFL as a whole. Makes an even more brutal hit, get fined, pull a Mark Cuban and pay double. Saying FU Goodell. I swear thats what I'd do.

The worst part about this for me, Is does it make Bostic alter the way he plays his game? Because Goodell likes flexing his muscles? Absolute JOKE.


/sigh

Great contribution homeboy /sigh /sigh /sigh /sigh /sigh
Looks like I can do it too.

There's no need to get adversarial with him. And while he didn't illustrate it as fully as he could have, I'm fairly certain quite a few people (especially those that frequent the News Forum knew exactly to what he was referring with his brief bit.

Fines are handed out by Appeal and Discipline Office. Roger doesn't sit on that committee. Roger doesn't even appoint people to that committee; previously it had been Art Shell and Ted Cottrell, both in roles that were hired/appointed by the NFL Owners, this past summer Art Shell was replaced by Matt Birk. Roger also doesn't sit on the competition committee - the one that makes up the rules. Nor does he have authority to make appointments to that committee - again... it's the owners. And yet, people wnat to jump to scapegoat Goodell for any little thing they can.

It gets old. Especially when it's not as though these facts haven't been repeated ad nauseum on these forums over and over again and still people persist.

I called him my homeboy...not adversarial at all. It's not like I wished ALS on him or anything.........
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 8917
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pigsooie5 wrote:
Keleth wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
Keleth wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
cddolphin wrote:
Dear NFL,

Big hits don't mean they're dirty hits.

- the fans



Dear Fans,

You're going to keep watching no matter what we do, anyway.

- the NFL

Somebody should stand up for the NFL as a whole. Makes an even more brutal hit, get fined, pull a Mark Cuban and pay double. Saying FU Goodell. I swear thats what I'd do.

The worst part about this for me, Is does it make Bostic alter the way he plays his game? Because Goodell likes flexing his muscles? Absolute JOKE.


/sigh

Great contribution homeboy /sigh /sigh /sigh /sigh /sigh
Looks like I can do it too.

The part i quoted was not worth more comment.
I see nothing wrong with the tackle and the fine is a joke.

There you go. The fine was a joke, along with your post.


i think you are missing the point of the goodell hate about fines is a joke and shows that you are an uninformed how the fines are handled. the sigh was not to further the conversation but a post to show how he is tired and sad to still see post that blame goodell for fines even though its been explained hundreds of times that he is not the one who hands them out.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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BlaqOptic


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 31946
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
-Hope- wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Can someone post a gif of an NFL player making a good form tackle for a big hit? Please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThlyRs2UKGY

Leads with the shoulder. Head is lowered, BUT crown of the helmet does not make contact. You get a nice view starting at 0:14.


his head was still up which allowed him to place it where it need to be to not hit with his crown. which is my whole point. Bostic had his head down. losing sight of the ball carrier.


Browns hit also wasn't a bang-bang play... Almost incomparable.
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BlaqOptic


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 31946
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Can someone post a gif of an NFL player making a good form tackle for a big hit? Please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGB9Lhodaz8

Start at 1:04 and watch through 1:15 (they show the hit twice, once from far away that puts the force of the hit in context, then once again closer up which allows you to see the good form used by Urlacher even coming high on the QB - head is up, still wraps, strikes with his chestplate and shoulder, and drives through (not leaving both feet from the ground until he's already initiated contact with the QB).


Not a hard hit. Is on a QB that is backpeddaling. Hardly comparable to this situation if you were trying to. Definitely not a bang-bang play...
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-Hope-


Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 21333
Location: The []_[]
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
-Hope- wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Can someone post a gif of an NFL player making a good form tackle for a big hit? Please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThlyRs2UKGY

Leads with the shoulder. Head is lowered, BUT crown of the helmet does not make contact. You get a nice view starting at 0:14.


his head was still up which allowed him to place it where it need to be to not hit with his crown. which is my whole point. Bostic had his head down. losing sight of the ball carrier.


Browns hit also wasn't a bang-bang play... Almost incomparable.

What? It's almost the exact same situation. Receiver catches (or is catching, in Bush's case) the ball and in that instant is in a vulnerable position against the defender, who has a running start from downfield. Bostic's play was hardly a "bang-bang" sort of incidental hit.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 14427
Location: Gibsonia, Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What? That was a great tackle by Bostic! It was beautiful.

such a lame fine. I love Jon Bostic. He'll be a force to be reckoned with in this league. I hate that Chicago drafted him. Mad

Its just beyond me why a clean, good form tackle should be fined because it was a big hit. Just ridiculous.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 23505
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
To all those criticizing the hit, saying it wasn't a textbook tackle a) I question whether or not you ever played the game, my goodness he does everything you teach when you teach a kid how to tackle. b) players both retired and current all over the country, have called the hit "teaching tape" for how to tackle. It was exactly what you want to do, when you tackle, and it was fined. The fine is supposedly for contacting the body forcibly with the crown of his helmet, which he did not do. Its a bogus fine.


i guess we had significantly different coaches. because i was always taught to keep my head straight up. we got pulled if we didnt see our target on contact. we also were told to to hit the core. the body doesnt move as well as the legs and chest so you go for the core, aka hips to mid numbers. never heard a coach or player say "ok guys make sure your facemaks is is facing the ground and it doesnt really matter where you hit them since having your facemask like that you cant aim anyways."

and i could give two diddly poops about former and current players. most players now have no sense of form tackling. you can find players saying these all could be used for the perfect form tackling tape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEvj1Dgvz_U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRWZ5l0nzXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHQM1mESI7c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvRKHy0QWZE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz6wJ-rcfbA

its gotten just overwhelmingly ridiculous that bostic is viewed as a "form" tackle. so much push against these new rules that ARE SIMPLE NOT TO BREAK. the rules should have been set and people go...well no duh why would you even hit that high. Should it be fined and illegal, probably not, im fine with it though because 1) you can easily prevent it, without be detrimental to the defense. 2) its safe for the defender and offensive player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqmdI3tVuMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdMFe-HKe5o (alll five of these besides the last one is high, but he keeps his head up and aims for the far point on the shoulder. so its not that bad)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7BL3V5KhA

one rule that no matter where or when your tackling is keep your head up, which bostic completely doesnt do. no reason ever to lower your head so far that your face is pointed down. second is to always try and hit between the mid numbers and hips. not always possible since sometime your coming from behind or diving at a player or a player gets low on you. but it is never an excuse to miss your target on a player that isnt able to make any football move.


Let me ask you then, Mr. I Know Everything About For Tackling, how do you think a LB should tackle a WR who has just caught a pass right in front of you and you have full momentum going at him?
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 8917
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
To all those criticizing the hit, saying it wasn't a textbook tackle a) I question whether or not you ever played the game, my goodness he does everything you teach when you teach a kid how to tackle. b) players both retired and current all over the country, have called the hit "teaching tape" for how to tackle. It was exactly what you want to do, when you tackle, and it was fined. The fine is supposedly for contacting the body forcibly with the crown of his helmet, which he did not do. Its a bogus fine.


i guess we had significantly different coaches. because i was always taught to keep my head straight up. we got pulled if we didnt see our target on contact. we also were told to to hit the core. the body doesnt move as well as the legs and chest so you go for the core, aka hips to mid numbers. never heard a coach or player say "ok guys make sure your facemaks is is facing the ground and it doesnt really matter where you hit them since having your facemask like that you cant aim anyways."

and i could give two diddly poops about former and current players. most players now have no sense of form tackling. you can find players saying these all could be used for the perfect form tackling tape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEvj1Dgvz_U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRWZ5l0nzXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHQM1mESI7c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvRKHy0QWZE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz6wJ-rcfbA

its gotten just overwhelmingly ridiculous that bostic is viewed as a "form" tackle. so much push against these new rules that ARE SIMPLE NOT TO BREAK. the rules should have been set and people go...well no duh why would you even hit that high. Should it be fined and illegal, probably not, im fine with it though because 1) you can easily prevent it, without be detrimental to the defense. 2) its safe for the defender and offensive player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqmdI3tVuMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdMFe-HKe5o (alll five of these besides the last one is high, but he keeps his head up and aims for the far point on the shoulder. so its not that bad)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7BL3V5KhA

one rule that no matter where or when your tackling is keep your head up, which bostic completely doesnt do. no reason ever to lower your head so far that your face is pointed down. second is to always try and hit between the mid numbers and hips. not always possible since sometime your coming from behind or diving at a player or a player gets low on you. but it is never an excuse to miss your target on a player that isnt able to make any football move.


Let me ask you then, Mr. I Know Everything About For Tackling, how do you think a LB should tackle a WR who has just caught a pass right in front of you and you have full momentum going at him?


are you going to his front, side, back? is right in front as in within a yard, what distance are we talking? does he have the ball cradled yet or does he have it out from his body? is it open field or is there other defenders in the area? whats the size of the player in relation to the defender? is it in the endzone?
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 19216
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
To all those criticizing the hit, saying it wasn't a textbook tackle a) I question whether or not you ever played the game, my goodness he does everything you teach when you teach a kid how to tackle. b) players both retired and current all over the country, have called the hit "teaching tape" for how to tackle. It was exactly what you want to do, when you tackle, and it was fined. The fine is supposedly for contacting the body forcibly with the crown of his helmet, which he did not do. Its a bogus fine.


i guess we had significantly different coaches. because i was always taught to keep my head straight up. we got pulled if we didnt see our target on contact. we also were told to to hit the core. the body doesnt move as well as the legs and chest so you go for the core, aka hips to mid numbers. never heard a coach or player say "ok guys make sure your facemaks is is facing the ground and it doesnt really matter where you hit them since having your facemask like that you cant aim anyways."

and i could give two diddly poops about former and current players. most players now have no sense of form tackling. you can find players saying these all could be used for the perfect form tackling tape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEvj1Dgvz_U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRWZ5l0nzXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHQM1mESI7c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvRKHy0QWZE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz6wJ-rcfbA

its gotten just overwhelmingly ridiculous that bostic is viewed as a "form" tackle. so much push against these new rules that ARE SIMPLE NOT TO BREAK. the rules should have been set and people go...well no duh why would you even hit that high. Should it be fined and illegal, probably not, im fine with it though because 1) you can easily prevent it, without be detrimental to the defense. 2) its safe for the defender and offensive player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqmdI3tVuMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdMFe-HKe5o (alll five of these besides the last one is high, but he keeps his head up and aims for the far point on the shoulder. so its not that bad)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7BL3V5KhA

one rule that no matter where or when your tackling is keep your head up, which bostic completely doesnt do. no reason ever to lower your head so far that your face is pointed down. second is to always try and hit between the mid numbers and hips. not always possible since sometime your coming from behind or diving at a player or a player gets low on you. but it is never an excuse to miss your target on a player that isnt able to make any football move.
He doesn't lower his head, he puts his helmet on the football, which is exactly what you are supposed to do. Again, I question your football knowledge if you think there was anything wrong w/ that hit. This is 100% about the perception that it was a big hit, and the NFL owners don't want big hits anywhere near the upper body b/c they are worried about the concussion lawsuits.
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 8917
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
He doesn't lower his head, he puts his helmet on the football, which is exactly what you are supposed to do. Again, I question your football knowledge if you think there was anything wrong w/ that hit. This is 100% about the perception that it was a big hit, and the NFL owners don't want big hits anywhere near the upper body b/c they are worried about the concussion lawsuits.


i dont know how to show frames of the hit so if anyone can i would sure love to see them. because i froze the video right at the time of the hit and hes facemask is straight down. you put your helmet on the ball but you dont need to put your head down.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 23505
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
To all those criticizing the hit, saying it wasn't a textbook tackle a) I question whether or not you ever played the game, my goodness he does everything you teach when you teach a kid how to tackle. b) players both retired and current all over the country, have called the hit "teaching tape" for how to tackle. It was exactly what you want to do, when you tackle, and it was fined. The fine is supposedly for contacting the body forcibly with the crown of his helmet, which he did not do. Its a bogus fine.


i guess we had significantly different coaches. because i was always taught to keep my head straight up. we got pulled if we didnt see our target on contact. we also were told to to hit the core. the body doesnt move as well as the legs and chest so you go for the core, aka hips to mid numbers. never heard a coach or player say "ok guys make sure your facemaks is is facing the ground and it doesnt really matter where you hit them since having your facemask like that you cant aim anyways."

and i could give two diddly poops about former and current players. most players now have no sense of form tackling. you can find players saying these all could be used for the perfect form tackling tape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEvj1Dgvz_U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRWZ5l0nzXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHQM1mESI7c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvRKHy0QWZE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz6wJ-rcfbA

its gotten just overwhelmingly ridiculous that bostic is viewed as a "form" tackle. so much push against these new rules that ARE SIMPLE NOT TO BREAK. the rules should have been set and people go...well no duh why would you even hit that high. Should it be fined and illegal, probably not, im fine with it though because 1) you can easily prevent it, without be detrimental to the defense. 2) its safe for the defender and offensive player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqmdI3tVuMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdMFe-HKe5o (alll five of these besides the last one is high, but he keeps his head up and aims for the far point on the shoulder. so its not that bad)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7BL3V5KhA

one rule that no matter where or when your tackling is keep your head up, which bostic completely doesnt do. no reason ever to lower your head so far that your face is pointed down. second is to always try and hit between the mid numbers and hips. not always possible since sometime your coming from behind or diving at a player or a player gets low on you. but it is never an excuse to miss your target on a player that isnt able to make any football move.


Let me ask you then, Mr. I Know Everything About For Tackling, how do you think a LB should tackle a WR who has just caught a pass right in front of you and you have full momentum going at him?


are you going to his front, side, back? is right in front as in within a yard, what distance are we talking? does he have the ball cradled yet or does he have it out from his body? is it open field or is there other defenders in the area? whats the size of the player in relation to the defender? is it in the endzone?


Let's just, for arguments sake, replay the same Bostic situation. How should he have tackled him? Should he have stopped all of his momentum and bear hugged the WR to the ground, thus giving up about 5 or so yards of YAC, or what?
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 8917
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:


Let's just, for arguments sake, replay the same Bostic situation. How should he have tackled him? Should he have stopped all of his momentum and bear hugged the WR to the ground, thus giving up about 5 or so yards of YAC, or what?


head up. not so the facemask is straight with the side line but just slightly tilted down, but if you saw the hit from the opposite side you can still see the opening of the facemask. head on ball side of the player and hitting where the ball is on the player.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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Keleth


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2874
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
Keleth wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
Keleth wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
cddolphin wrote:
Dear NFL,

Big hits don't mean they're dirty hits.

- the fans



Dear Fans,

You're going to keep watching no matter what we do, anyway.

- the NFL

Somebody should stand up for the NFL as a whole. Makes an even more brutal hit, get fined, pull a Mark Cuban and pay double. Saying FU Goodell. I swear thats what I'd do.

The worst part about this for me, Is does it make Bostic alter the way he plays his game? Because Goodell likes flexing his muscles? Absolute JOKE.


/sigh

Great contribution homeboy /sigh /sigh /sigh /sigh /sigh
Looks like I can do it too.

The part i quoted was not worth more comment.
I see nothing wrong with the tackle and the fine is a joke.

There you go. The fine was a joke, along with your post.


i think you are missing the point of the goodell hate about fines is a joke and shows that you are an uninformed how the fines are handled. the sigh was not to further the conversation but a post to show how he is tired and sad to still see post that blame goodell for fines even though its been explained hundreds of times that he is not the one who hands them out.


And he is exactly the sort of poster who will make no comment on that part because he either knows now what he said is wrong and is too embarrassed to admit it or he is one of those that no matter how much evidence and facts are shown him he has his opinion and he sticks to it.
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green24


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 47651
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pigsooie5 wrote:
The LBC wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
Keleth wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
cddolphin wrote:
Dear NFL,

Big hits don't mean they're dirty hits.

- the fans



Dear Fans,

You're going to keep watching no matter what we do, anyway.

- the NFL

Somebody should stand up for the NFL as a whole. Makes an even more brutal hit, get fined, pull a Mark Cuban and pay double. Saying FU Goodell. I swear thats what I'd do.

The worst part about this for me, Is does it make Bostic alter the way he plays his game? Because Goodell likes flexing his muscles? Absolute JOKE.


/sigh

Great contribution homeboy /sigh /sigh /sigh /sigh /sigh
Looks like I can do it too.

There's no need to get adversarial with him. And while he didn't illustrate it as fully as he could have, I'm fairly certain quite a few people (especially those that frequent the News Forum knew exactly to what he was referring with his brief bit.

Fines are handed out by Appeal and Discipline Office. Roger doesn't sit on that committee. Roger doesn't even appoint people to that committee; previously it had been Art Shell and Ted Cottrell, both in roles that were hired/appointed by the NFL Owners, this past summer Art Shell was replaced by Matt Birk. Roger also doesn't sit on the competition committee - the one that makes up the rules. Nor does he have authority to make appointments to that committee - again... it's the owners. And yet, people wnat to jump to scapegoat Goodell for any little thing they can.

It gets old. Especially when it's not as though these facts haven't been repeated ad nauseum on these forums over and over again and still people persist.

I called him my homeboy...not adversarial at all. It's not like I wished ALS on him or anything.........

Too far. Too far.
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