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Bucs fire HC Greg Schiano, GM Dominik; Love Smith favorite
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roysmyboy31


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why on earth would they consider Kubiak?

Lovie Smith on the other hand would be a strong hire. Will have to make sure he has a good OC to go along with him.
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Neutral


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roysmyboy31 wrote:
Why on earth would they consider Kubiak?

Lovie Smith on the other hand would be a strong hire. Will have to make sure he has a good OC to go along with him.


They could be covertly interviewing him for the OC position.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buc Ball wrote:
AMG1713 wrote:
Billy Spikes wrote:
***Update***
Quote:
Former Bears HC Lovie Smith is considered the favorite for the Buccaneers HC job, based on multiple league sources.


https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/417747726122881025


I like the fit for McCoy, Clayborn, and David. I don't like the fit for Revis, though. I think they'd have to move him. Paying 16 mil per year for a corner who doesn't like/work in the tampa/cover 2 is a down right Jerry Jones-ian move.

We would use Revis to his strengths. Johnathan Banks, our other starting CB is also well suited to playing press man coverage. I think I read somewhere that the Bears at the end of Smith's reign were using more man coverage than zone. Having Revis gives us far more gameplanning options than we otherwise would have.
Lovie LOVES to show 2-shell, but he plays a lot of different coverages out of that 2-shell. And he completely understands playing to his players strength. In 2012 the Bears had arguably the best CB tandem in the league, what coverage did they play most? 2-Man.
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Johnny3000


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovie Smith seems like a great fit for the talent Tampa has on defense.
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Falastine


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh. I'm not a fan of retread coaches, and Lovie Smith is just that. His teams were often undisciplined and inconsistent. I'd rather see him at DC than HC, honestly.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falastine wrote:
Meh. I'm not a fan of retread coaches, and Lovie Smith is just that. His teams were often undisciplined and inconsistent. I'd rather see him at DC than HC, honestly.


Like Bill Belichick and Tony Dungy? I can understand not being a fan of ineffective retread coaches...but Smith was successful.

And his teams were inconsistent because his QB had some issues with durability.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any coach that can get to the Super Bowl with a broken down Muhsin Muhammad and Sexy Rexy Grossman, is a great coach.
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Falastine


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Falastine wrote:
Meh. I'm not a fan of retread coaches, and Lovie Smith is just that. His teams were often undisciplined and inconsistent. I'd rather see him at DC than HC, honestly.


Like Bill Belichick and Tony Dungy? I can understand not being a fan of ineffective retread coaches...but Smith was successful.

And his teams were inconsistent because his QB had some issues with durability.


There are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. And both coaches landed with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, respectively. If you give Smith a Peyton Manning, I'm sure he can win a few games as well.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falastine wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
Falastine wrote:
Meh. I'm not a fan of retread coaches, and Lovie Smith is just that. His teams were often undisciplined and inconsistent. I'd rather see him at DC than HC, honestly.


Like Bill Belichick and Tony Dungy? I can understand not being a fan of ineffective retread coaches...but Smith was successful.

And his teams were inconsistent because his QB had some issues with durability.


There are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. And both coaches landed with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, respectively. If you give Smith a Peyton Manning, I'm sure he can win a few games as well.


Difference is that this isn't rule. I believe someone said in another thread that College HCs and former NFL HCs have better records than Coordinators when hired as coaches.

EDIT: Found it, I was wrong...it said former NFL HCs have the best record:
WhackyPlague wrote:


Yup, I'm not sure where I saw it, but apparently former college head coaches have better win/loss records than any other type of coaching hire other than former NFL head coaches. OCs are historically better than DCs and I believe position coaches were better than coordinators.

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green24


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Falastine wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
Falastine wrote:
Meh. I'm not a fan of retread coaches, and Lovie Smith is just that. His teams were often undisciplined and inconsistent. I'd rather see him at DC than HC, honestly.


Like Bill Belichick and Tony Dungy? I can understand not being a fan of ineffective retread coaches...but Smith was successful.

And his teams were inconsistent because his QB had some issues with durability.


There are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. And both coaches landed with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, respectively. If you give Smith a Peyton Manning, I'm sure he can win a few games as well.


Difference is that this isn't rule. I believe someone said in another thread that College HCs and former NFL HCs have better records than Coordinators when hired as coaches.

EDIT: Found it, I was wrong...it said former NFL HCs have the best record:
WhackyPlague wrote:


Yup, I'm not sure where I saw it, but apparently former college head coaches have better win/loss records than any other type of coaching hire other than former NFL head coaches. OCs are historically better than DCs and I believe position coaches were better than coordinators.

I said something to that tune recently too. It was more in favor of college coaches.

Since 2010 (past four seasons), 26 HCs have been hired by 21 NFL teams. So far, only three of these coaches have won at least one playoff game since being hired:

John Fox
Jim Harbaugh
Pete Carroll

Prior to their current positions, these coaches were the head coaches of the Carolina Panthers, Stanford Cardinal, and USC Trojans, respectively.

Looking over these 26 coaches, here is the breakdown based on their previous positions:

NFL Assistant Coach: 16
College Head Coach: 5
NFL Head Coach: 4
CFL Head Coach: 1

All of the 5 coaches that have already been fired were previously assistant coaches. College HCs also appear to be more successful and finding and developing franchise QBs. Here is how the 26 coaches have fared in developing QBs drafted in the first three rounds since 2011:

NFL Assistant Coaches:
Cam Newton: drafted and developed by Ron Rivera (NFL DC)
Jake Locker: drafted and developed by Mike Munchak (NFL OL coach)
Blaine Gabbert: developed by Mike Mularkey (NFL OC) and Gus Bradley (NFL DC)
Christian Ponder: drafted and developed by Leslie Frazier (NFL DC)
Terrelle Pryor: drafted by Hue Jackson (NFL OC), developed by Dennis Allen (NFL DC)
Andrew Luck: drafted and developed by Chuck Pagano (NFL DC)
Ryan Tannehill: drafted and developed by Joe Philbin (NFL OC)
Brandon Weeden: drafted by Pat Shurmur (NFL OC), developed by Rob Chudzinski (NFL OC)

Out of this group, the only two major successes are Cam Newton and Andrew Luck, both first overall picks. Luck was a no-brainer pick, while Newton was not a consensus pick. Regardless, let's not pretend Ron Rivera, a defensive-minded coach was the visionary who realized the true potential of Cam Newton. Ryan Tannehill, who still might end up being successful, was drafted by a coach that was previously an NFL assistant coach. However, the OC on the Miami Dolphins is Mike Sherman, Tannehill's HC at Texas A&M. He was very likely the main guy pulling for Tannehill and he is tied to him in many ways.

NFL Head Coaches:
Robert Griffin III: drafted and developed by Mike Shanahan (NFL HC)
Brock Osweiler: drafted and developed by John Fox (NFL HC)

It is very up in the air how well these QBs have been developed. RG3 was a no-brainer for the Redskins in 2012 after they traded up to the second overall pick. Although he won ROTY last year, his development has been criticized heavily recently. We probably won't know how good Osweiler is until Peyton Manning retires.

College Head Coaches:
Colin Kaepernick: drafted and developed by Jim Harbaugh (College HC)
Russell Wilson: drafted and developed by Pete Carroll (College HC)
Nick Foles: developed by Chip Kelly (College HC)
E.J. Manuel: drafted and developed by Doug Marrone (College HC)
Mike Glennon: drafted and developed by Greg Schiano (College HC)

All five of these QBs have achieved some level of NFL success, despite only Manuel being drafted in the first round. None of these were seen as elite QB prospects coming out of college, yet all appear like possible or even likely franchise QBs. For the exception of Foles, all were drafted by college HCs that were able to use their knowledge of these players from their college experiences to find a diamond in the rough. These QBs (or at least the three non-rookie QBs) have arguably shown the most growth of any QBs drafted in the past three years.

Sure, this all could be small sample size or inductive reasoning, but I really think there are many advantages to be gained by hiring a successful college HC over an NFL assistant coach.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falastine wrote:
Meh. I'm not a fan of retread coaches, and Lovie Smith is just that. His teams were often undisciplined and inconsistent. I'd rather see him at DC than HC, honestly.
You would be the first person in the history of mankind, to call Lovie Smith's teams undisciplined. And I'm not sure how much more consistent you can get than the worst record of tenure w/ your players, is 7-9.
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tom cody


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No surprise to see Schiano fired, don't know why Tampa hired him in the 1st place. As to Lovie Smith, should Tampa hire him then they could turn themselves into a playoff team for 2014, he's that good a coach.
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Timothy67


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Spikes wrote:
***Update***
Quote:
Former Bears HC Lovie Smith is considered the favorite for the Buccaneers HC job, based on multiple league sources.


https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/417747726122881025


This would be a huge mistake for Tampa Bay. Right now their offense is in shambles with the collapse and then release of their quarterback.

Lovie Smith is excellent on defense but he has TWO glaring holes that keep him from being a true head coach.

He has no knowledge at all of offense, how to run it, plan it, anything. This is nothing new most coaches are better on one side of the ball than the other. But what is damning is Lovie Smith also has no skill what so ever in choosing decent offensive coaches. Mike Martz when he should have been put out to pasture? Mike Tice who knew what an offensive line is (at least in theory he never proved that in Chicago) but nothing about an offense.

In Lovie Smith's world the offensive side of the ball was the position often held by friends, talent not being relevant, but always held by the next scapegoat ready to be fired to cover Lovie's incompetence.
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Timothy67


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Falastine wrote:
Meh. I'm not a fan of retread coaches, and Lovie Smith is just that. His teams were often undisciplined and inconsistent. I'd rather see him at DC than HC, honestly.
You would be the first person in the history of mankind, to call Lovie Smith's teams undisciplined. And I'm not sure how much more consistent you can get than the worst record of tenure w/ your players, is 7-9.


Lovie Smith's teams were certainly never undisciplined. What they actually were was second tier, with Lovie Smith you will make it to the playoffs, you will always have a good defense, but your offense will always be jus short of a shambles, looking like its never in complete control and doing things that one would never expect a competent offense to do, and I do not mean that in a good way.
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Dr. Philly


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just get Lovie an even average OC and they'll be fine.
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