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2014 Hall of Fame Finalists Announced
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BlaqOptic


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Jerome Bettis
Aeneas Williams
Tim Brown
Andre Reed
Derrick Brooks
Walter Jones
To me it comes down to those 6. Since there are two WRs and I think the more recent one should have to wait with that being Brown.


Are you saying this is the list of players you think will get in or should get in? Because I can see how Bettis would get in (media darling) but I dont see a valid argument why he should outside the induction of Curtis Martin (who would still get my vote over Bettis). At least not over a player like Will Shields. No way.


Those are teh players I think SHOULD get in.
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BlaqOptic


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, I can't seem to understand why one would be Pro-Strahan but anti-Bettis given Strahan is the equivalent to Bettis in production. He has 4 outlier seasons that account for 49% of his damn sack total...

Kevin Greene > Strahan now that I think about it.
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Ketchup on 7/24/14 wrote:
I would cut off my legs if Rodgers threw 20 interceptions.



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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
game3525 wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
I have mad respect for Bettis and the longevity of his production but he never won a rushing title. I know he is a bit of a media darling but I don't understand how he is a finalist.


6th All-Time in Rushing with only 1 player currently looking like they even have a chance of surpassing him.


3.9 YPC....


Yeah, I think Bettis belongs in the hall of "very good", I feel the same way about Curtis Martin as well. Honestly, with Marshall in, the only two RBs I would vote for are LT and AD.


And that's my issue. If Martin is in - second ballot even - then Bettis certainly should be.


So youre in favor of further muddying the water? I didnt think you would ever go full homer on us, man. Laughing
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
Also, I can't seem to understand why one would be Pro-Strahan but anti-Bettis given Strahan is the equivalent to Bettis in production. He has 4 outlier seasons that account for 49% of his damn sack total...

Kevin Greene > Strahan now that I think about it.


....that's kind of the opposite of Bettis. Strahan's fame is on the back of a few really really phenomenal seasons. Bettis's is on the back of gradual statistical accumulation a la Martin.
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
Also, I can't seem to understand why one would be Pro-Strahan but anti-Bettis given Strahan is the equivalent to Bettis in production. He has 4 outlier seasons that account for 49% of his damn sack total...

Kevin Greene > Strahan now that I think about it.


So then Kevin Greene > Bettis as well? Since theyre equivalent in production and all.

And I disagree with the notion Strahan doesnt have any better an argument than Bettis. Strahan has numbers (as you pointed out, along with Bettis) but Strahan was often considered the best, or one of the best at his position throughout his career. Bettis was never, ever considered as highly at his position as Strahan was. Strahan led the NFL in sacks 2 times and holds the all time record for most sacks in a season. Bettis managed to lead the NFL in carries. Once. Strahan has more pro bowls, more first team all pro's, more second team all pros, was the DPOY, was voted to the all decade team. Bettis was the OROY and 1 time CPOY. I really dont see any serious argument for Bettis over Strahan.

All that said, Strahan has the weakest argument of the 5 I picked. It was a toss up between him, Harrison, Brown and Greene. All of them have a far better argument for induction than Bettis. Whose argument seems to hinge, basically, on the induction of another player (Martin).
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sn0mm1s


Joined: 05 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malik wrote:

So it doesn't only fit Curtis Martin but your example doesn't include any other RBs. Brilliant.



He listed several other RBs - although I disagree with Dillon being in that bunch.

Quote:

And Curtis Martin wasn't even on run first teams for about half of his career. The first 3 seasons with the Patriots they passed considerably more than they ran (1st and 3rd in attempts his first two seasons). Then the Jets were 1st in attempts in 2000 (19th in running), in 2002, 2003, and 2005 they were low in both passing and run attempts because the offense as a whole was pretty anemic. So over half his career he was either on teams that pass 1st teams or had a low percentage of offensive plays in general. Martin only lost out of being 1st Team All-Pro in 2001 because fellow Hall of Famer Marshall Faulk was then part of the Greatest Show on Turf. Don't sit there and pretend like averaging 4.5ypc for 1500+ yards, 10 TDs, 53 receptions, and 320 receiving isn't an All-Pro year most years.


Actually, it isn't All-pro most years. There have been 11 seasons where a RB rushed for 1500-1600 yards and had 300-400 receiving yards and only 4 of those were considered All-Pro seasons.

Quote:
His first two years Barry Sanders, Terrell Davis, and Emmitt Smith were having some of the best seasons of their careers as well.


Which is part of the point - Martin was never considered a top tier back. He was almost always in that second tier. He got a lot of carries but was below average every time he touched the ball. Replace Sanders, Davis, and Smith with Tomlinson, Faulk, Edge, and Holmes for the next few years of his career. He was never in that top tier - he shouldn't be in the HOF.
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sdrawkcab321


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When will the hof start letting coordinators in ? There's so many who without them their teams wouldn't have been great. Many deserving guys
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sdrawkcab321 wrote:
When will the hof start letting coordinators in ? There's so many who without them their teams wouldn't have been great. Many deserving guys
There are, and those guys usually go on to be an HC at some point.
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green24


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Finalists Announced Reply with quote

Badger75 wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000311405/article/hall-of-fame-finalists-morten-andersen-surprisingly-gets-the-nod

Morten Andersen
Jerome Bettis
Derrick Brooks
Tim Brown
Eddie DeBartolo
Tony Dungy
Kevin Greene
Charles Haley
Marvin Harrison
Walter Jones
John Lynch
Andre Reed
Will Shields
Michael Strahan
Aeneas Williams


That is a deep bench of talent to choose from. No wonder the NFL is so popular. MLB needs to take note. Wink

Andersen, Brown, Dungy, Harrison

Wait what? MLB is having problems because the ballot is too overcrowded. 50% of voters used all 10 spots on their ballots, which shatters the previous record. There is a movement to eliminate the cap altogether, since voters are forced to leave off candidates that they believe are HOF worthy.
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NS922


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are people surprised that Andersen is a finalist? Being the all time leading scorer in NFL history has to mean something. No one said he has to go into the Hall.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malik wrote:
The LBC wrote:
Ream me all you want over it, but the fact that Jerome Bettis (and I say this as someone that used to watch him play live when he was a Ram) could get into the Hall before Don Coryell is pretty sickening.


Jerome Bettis is never getting in.


If Curtis Martin got in, Jerome Bettis will too.
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BenchSanchez


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally think Martin is a HOF'er and Bettis is not.

The people who matter felt Martin was worthy. And Bettis will probably get in by being that media darling.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BenchSanchez wrote:
I personally think Martin is a HOF'er and Bettis is not.

The people who matter felt Martin was worthy. And Bettis will probably get in by being that media darling.


This is complete nonsense.

So Martin got in because he deserves it, but Bettis will only get in because he is a media darling?

Stupid.

You might have a case if Martin was notably better than Bettis. He wasnt.

If Martin deserved it, so does Bettis.
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Malik


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Malik wrote:
The LBC wrote:
Ream me all you want over it, but the fact that Jerome Bettis (and I say this as someone that used to watch him play live when he was a Ram) could get into the Hall before Don Coryell is pretty sickening.


Jerome Bettis is never getting in.


If Curtis Martin got in, Jerome Bettis will too.


Doubt it. He's the prime example of a stat accumulator who stayed in the season several years past being good to solely exist as a giant goalline running. I mean 5 attempts, 1 yard gained, but with 3 touchdowns? He was a specialist for like 1/3 of his career and was in a 2 back system for over 40% of his career.
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BenchSanchez


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
BenchSanchez wrote:
I personally think Martin is a HOF'er and Bettis is not.

The people who matter felt Martin was worthy. And Bettis will probably get in by being that media darling.


This is complete nonsense.

So Martin got in because he deserves it, but Bettis will only get in because he is a media darling?

Stupid.

You might have a case if Martin was notably better than Bettis. He wasnt.

If Martin deserved it, so does Bettis.


This is none sense lol. Martin > Bettis everytime. Bettis was a NOBODY before he landed with the Steelers. Martin's play was always respected.

Not to mention Martin never punked out late in his career, he was setting records.

Bettis was fat and made use of it well after his career was over. He was blessed with a frame to make use of it.

We use a Bettis on the goalline. His name is Sheldon Richardson.
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