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NormSizedMidget


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
NormSizedMidget wrote:
JDLefebvre wrote:
I wasn't aware the NFL "product on the field" was in need of improving!


That's such a lousy point. Nobody is saying it's bad or really needs improvement but if you can get better and do it without much cost/difficulty what does it hurt?

I don't know how people can be so against this. They act like the money for the damn thing comes out of their pocket or if these attempts fail that it affects them somehow. Guess what, it doesn't.


Without much cost? I'd think that creating a developmental league would be quite costly and I don't think NFL owners would vote to approve spending league funds on it.


The dead truth is none of us know how much it will or won't cost. A lot of these other leagues that have flopped didn't have mission statement of purely being a DL for the NFL. The UFL, XFL, A11FL, etc tried to compete.

The NFLE was a development league but it also was to spread the game abroad. I have to believe there'd be more interest in the states (interest meaning dollars) to keep it alive.

It IS very hard to back the track record of all the worthless leagues tried and failed. I feel like a lot of them failed for good reason, some of them didn't really have the right people in there, there vision was too broad (trying to compete with the NFL), etc.

I think my biggest point isn't really for this league itself but for the idea. Basically this is me.

A. I think a developmental league could produce rosterable players every year. I think a star every 3-4 years if it really got up and going.

B. I think it could be a useful tool in other aspects BEYOND players. Rule testing, new tech testing, coach training, referee training.

C. I don't pretend to know anything about the money here but anything with the NFL logo on it is MONEY. Lots of people won't watch the NCAA even because they "don't know the players, too many teams." The UFL failed because nobody cared. I tend to think anything with "the Shield" can make money at this point if done right.

If players from everyone's fav team is attached, people would tune in. The Pro Bowl is the biggest NFL joke going and it gets better rating than NBA Conf finals games.

D. My entire WANT for this isn't about money, I essentially throw my hands up in the air, I don't know and I don't think 99.9% of people on this message board know it wouldn't work. They have the track history but the closest thing was the NFLE and I think we can admit not playing in the US is a bit different.


I guess in summary when I see the NCAA stuff, it's NOT just for players, I think the NFL could use it for more than that, though we can get our refs and coaches there too but with all the rules and tech tinkering discussed, this could be a place to try it. On top of it, we saw the NFLE find guys like Kitna, Delhomme, Brad Johnson, Warner...just at QB saw time over there. I think that the NCAA idea isn't perfect.

I guess I think the NFL's name on it could make it self sustainable and I do think it WOULD produce players that fell through the cracks. And there's benefits on top of that.


If you don't agree that's fine but I don't think it's as pointless as some make it out to be.
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NormSizedMidget


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McNabbMcFadden wrote:
If it's going to be during the NFL season, it has to be NFL affiliated.

This doesn't really work.


Serious question, why?
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NormSizedMidget


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dannyz wrote:
I don't know why everyone is against this? This is a league to help players who might need a little more to get ready.

I look at this for players like Lawrence Okoye and Daniel Adongo guys who are great athletes and have upside for teams but are super raw and only get real game action in the preseason, what's so bad about sending a guy like that to play six games but their getting live action and game situations.

If this league has Success and shows that people will come watch and they help develop not just players but coaches and refs why shouldn't the NFL consider supporting this? People in the nfl have said they need something like this and this league already has the cities and venues set if they can show that they will last the NFL should support.

As you can tell I want this league to to be a hit and it also means more football for me in Omaha. Very Happy


Gotta address this post too.

A. Okoye was the exact example I used elsewhere. Someone said he'd make their PS and as well he may but I think this could be GREAT for him. He could get 100% attention from a staff in this too, IDK how hands on coaching is on a PS but I have a feeling a guy that raw needs more than he's getting for pure hands on and he's so raw, even 2nd or 3rd tier coaches could help him a TON. The other one I used was the Northern Ill kid who's name evades me, going to RB in Chicago.

B. Someone laughed at Omaha being a team on the list and I was telling the guy who well embraced their UFL team was. I went to a game down there and it was pretty crazy.


The NFL is ridiculously wide spread so this isn't a big point but it could create some more fans itself, I know our local hockey team has create a ton of NHL fans just because they went once and fell in love. With the NFL have permeated as much as it has, it wouldn't be a ton but it would create some.
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NormSizedMidget


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:


wow.

He gave a simple explanation as to why it may not work. He looked at things from a different point of view, something much different from yours.

He never claimed to be "clearly superior". He didn't say the NCAA is "perfect". He didn't say any of these things. You just got emotional as soon as someone challenged your thoughts.

Personally, I don't mind more football, but I don't expect this league to last very long.


Tired of hearing the same points three points for a decade. I had a point and it wasn't unclear. He dropped the "do you have a point" line on me like I was a child. Sorry I don't like being talked down to when nothing I said was that muddied.
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If players from everyone's fav team is attached, people would tune in. The Pro Bowl is the biggest NFL joke going and it gets better rating than NBA Conf finals games.


People watch the Pro Bowl because their favorite players are in it. I don't think many people are going to watch to try and spot the one UDFA who might make the roster.

You're also comparing cable to network TV.
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NormSizedMidget


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
Quote:
If players from everyone's fav team is attached, people would tune in. The Pro Bowl is the biggest NFL joke going and it gets better rating than NBA Conf finals games.


People watch the Pro Bowl because their favorite players are in it. I don't think many people are going to watch to try and spot the one UDFA who might make the roster.

You're also comparing cable to network TV.


I'm not saying it's apples to apples, don't get me wrong, but I think we can all admit that a NFL developmental league with the NFL name attached and our team owning rights to players is going to have more success than anything unattached without the NFL name. I think we can all agree. It's where the biggest disconnect on my view comes on this. The UFL or XFL for example had no intentions of being a developmental league, nor did they have NFL affiliation. I know our local ex-CBA team has gotten far more popular after we got Miami Heat affiliation, for example.

Plus with the 'Murica! culture of nationalism we had, I think that was part of the reason nobody cared about NFL "Europe" around here. I'm not well enough versed to know if it was well received over there. I know one football fan from Germany and he said he loved it but nobody he knew paid it much mind.

Fair enough on the cable point, I'm too lazy to check but I would bet the PB has beat games that were Conf finals on network TV, either way, the fact that the NBA's final four, on cable or not, is bested by the Pro Bowl is pretty funny when everyone swears they don't watch it.
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dannyz


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormSizedMidget wrote:
dannyz wrote:
I don't know why everyone is against this? This is a league to help players who might need a little more to get ready.

I look at this for players like Lawrence Okoye and Daniel Adongo guys who are great athletes and have upside for teams but are super raw and only get real game action in the preseason, what's so bad about sending a guy like that to play six games but their getting live action and game situations.

If this league has Success and shows that people will come watch and they help develop not just players but coaches and refs why shouldn't the NFL consider supporting this? People in the nfl have said they need something like this and this league already has the cities and venues set if they can show that they will last the NFL should support.

As you can tell I want this league to to be a hit and it also means more football for me in Omaha. Very Happy


Gotta address this post too.

A. Okoye was the exact example I used elsewhere. Someone said he'd make their PS and as well he may but I think this could be GREAT for him. He could get 100% attention from a staff in this too, IDK how hands on coaching is on a PS but I have a feeling a guy that raw needs more than he's getting for pure hands on and he's so raw, even 2nd or 3rd tier coaches could help him a TON. The other one I used was the Northern Ill kid who's name evades me, going to RB in Chicago.

B. Someone laughed at Omaha being a team on the list and I was telling the guy who well embraced their UFL team was. I went to a game down there and it was pretty crazy.


The NFL is ridiculously wide spread so this isn't a big point but it could create some more fans itself, I know our local hockey team has create a ton of NHL fans just because they went once and fell in love. With the NFL have permeated as much as it has, it wouldn't be a ton but it would create some.


Totally agree with everything you said. I said people are against this because everyone thinks it will fail, that's their opinion but the way I look at it they don't have much faith in it.

I know all the other leagues failed but I think this one is different then all of them, the others were just minor leagues this one plans to develop players just for the nfl.

If there are a few Success stories then this league did their job, so many guys don't get drafted that end up being great players all they need was an opportunity this could be the place where some guy kills it here then goes on to a long nfl career. If it helps the nfl get the best possible outcome on the field then why is it bad? Also People in Omaha love football and I think they will support this I know I will.
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NormSizedMidget


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dannyz wrote:
NormSizedMidget wrote:
dannyz wrote:
I don't know why everyone is against this? This is a league to help players who might need a little more to get ready.

I look at this for players like Lawrence Okoye and Daniel Adongo guys who are great athletes and have upside for teams but are super raw and only get real game action in the preseason, what's so bad about sending a guy like that to play six games but their getting live action and game situations.

If this league has Success and shows that people will come watch and they help develop not just players but coaches and refs why shouldn't the NFL consider supporting this? People in the nfl have said they need something like this and this league already has the cities and venues set if they can show that they will last the NFL should support.

As you can tell I want this league to to be a hit and it also means more football for me in Omaha. Very Happy


Gotta address this post too.

A. Okoye was the exact example I used elsewhere. Someone said he'd make their PS and as well he may but I think this could be GREAT for him. He could get 100% attention from a staff in this too, IDK how hands on coaching is on a PS but I have a feeling a guy that raw needs more than he's getting for pure hands on and he's so raw, even 2nd or 3rd tier coaches could help him a TON. The other one I used was the Northern Ill kid who's name evades me, going to RB in Chicago.

B. Someone laughed at Omaha being a team on the list and I was telling the guy who well embraced their UFL team was. I went to a game down there and it was pretty crazy.


The NFL is ridiculously wide spread so this isn't a big point but it could create some more fans itself, I know our local hockey team has create a ton of NHL fans just because they went once and fell in love. With the NFL have permeated as much as it has, it wouldn't be a ton but it would create some.


Totally agree with everything you said. I said people are against this because everyone thinks it will fail, that's their opinion but the way I look at it they don't have much faith in it.

I know all the other leagues failed but I think this one is different then all of them, the others were just minor leagues this one plans to develop players just for the nfl.

If there are a few Success stories then this league did their job, so many guys don't get drafted that end up being great players all they need was an opportunity this could be the place where some guy kills it here then goes on to a long nfl career. If it helps the nfl get the best possible outcome on the field then why is it bad? Also People in Omaha love football and I think they will support this I know I will.


Honestly, I'd bet my house this fails. But the IDEA of it I think is perfect. It's what the NFL should do...eventually, basically identical. How they want to attach players or teams to teams, I'll let smarter people figure out the best plan there. I just know the marketing power of the NFL, if anyone could make it work, whether that's breaking even or what not...they could do it.

Hell, sign Tim Tebow to it week 1. Instantly profitable. Not even being tongue-in-cheek.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormSizedMidget wrote:

C. I don't pretend to know anything about the money here but anything with the NFL logo on it is MONEY. Lots of people won't watch the NCAA even because they "don't know the players, too many teams." The UFL failed because nobody cared. I tend to think anything with "the Shield" can make money at this point if done right.


But this wouldn't be NFL players and teams. This would be players nobody cares about on teams nobody cares about.

If we were talking a true minor league, where the NFL's teams' top prospects were playing (like AAA in baseball), it would be different. I could see a league filled with top draft picks being successful. However, for obvious reasons, that type of league would never happen in the NFL.

You'd get a product significantly worse than preseason football and the only reason people watch preseason football is to watch their favorite teams' prospects/new players or a desperation for wanting football after months away from their favorite team.

I just don't see anybody tuning in to watch the Omaha Owls play the Portland Beavers with the best players being guys who can't make NFL rosters. Certainly not in the fall or winter with NFL, NCAA, NHL, NBA, MLB (Sept/Oct) etc.

And as a spring league, the talent pool would be even worse because the rosters would be comprised of guys who can't even make a 90 man off-season roster. And I don't think NFL teams would want their contracted players playing in a developmental league with unaffiliated coaches and totally different schemes etc and missing minicamps and OTA's. So neither fall nor spring seems particularly workable as far as NFL affiliation.
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NormSizedMidget


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
NormSizedMidget wrote:

C. I don't pretend to know anything about the money here but anything with the NFL logo on it is MONEY. Lots of people won't watch the NCAA even because they "don't know the players, too many teams." The UFL failed because nobody cared. I tend to think anything with "the Shield" can make money at this point if done right.


But this wouldn't be NFL players and teams. This would be players nobody cares about on teams nobody cares about.

If we were talking a true minor league, where the NFL's teams' top prospects were playing (like AAA in baseball), it would be different. I could see a league filled with top draft picks being successful. However, for obvious reasons, that type of league would never happen in the NFL.

You'd get a product significantly worse than preseason football and the only reason people watch preseason football is to watch their favorite teams' prospects/new players or a desperation for wanting football after months away from their favorite team.

I just don't see anybody tuning in to watch the Omaha Owls play the Portland Beavers with the best players being guys who can't make NFL rosters. Certainly not in the fall or winter with NFL, NCAA, NHL, NBA, MLB (Sept/Oct) etc.

And as a spring league, the talent pool would be even worse because the rosters would be comprised of guys who can't even make a 90 man off-season roster. And I don't think NFL teams would want their contracted players playing in a developmental league with unaffiliated coaches and totally different schemes etc and missing minicamps and OTA's. So neither fall nor spring seems particularly workable as far as NFL affiliation.


A. I don't know who your fans are but every single year, as a GB fan, we talk up practice squad players like they're the next Sterling Sharpe or what have you. Every year there is 2-3 fringe roster guys we get really excited about. AGAIN, I'm not saying it's apples to apples, a guy who can't make a 53 (or 61 essentially) is as known or as good or attractive to watch as a real guy on a roster. I haven't said that, but it's better if they're attached to an NFL team than just some random dude in the whateverFL. If I know the guy is a GB owned player, I care, otherwise I probably don't. That's the point. Does it make me as interested as I would be on a GB starter? NO, obviously not. But still more than some random guy in some random league. Now that guy is PART of my team.

I'm kind of talking about this idea skipped forward if it connected with the NFL or if the NFL really just did this on their own.

B. I don't see the "obvious reasons" against it.

Quote:
On the prospects for a developmental league that would be affiliated with the NFL ...
"We have talked a great deal about the idea of a developmental league. We actually think that there could be a role for that. Particularly with the changes in the Collective Bargaining Agreement -- the limited amount of time the younger players have to either be evaluated or develop their own skills -- should we have some sort of developmental league? It is something we will continue to pursue. If we do it, my personal view is it should be defined what the actual objective is. If it is a developmental league, letís call it a developmental league. Letís design it as a developmental league. If it is going to be a commercial league that is trying to generate fan interest or generate revenue, we should also be clear of that objective. I think our general view right now is to make it a developmental league."


-Roger Goodell

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/153068395.html#7jGlHaSZ5A66mtuJ.97

Sounds a ton like what I've said. Either you're a DL or your not. The NFLE was not defined clear enough, the UFL, XFL, CFL, AFL, are NOT developmental arms of the NFL.

C. In regards to TV revenue, who cares?

Do people watch the NBADL? Do people watch minor league hockey? Do they watch minor league baseball?

No.

Does it exist? Yes.

The "TV product" should not be a very primary concern if the goal is truly to be a DEVELOPMENTAL league which is what Goodell was saying there about being commercial.

D. I am not and have never been in favor of the DL running before or after the NFL season, it should run somewhat parallel to the NFL season, preferably shortly after the NFL season starts.

You have the draft, you sign your 90, you have OTAs, you have TC, you make your cuts, and then you attach players to the developmental league, they go to their prospective teams, however that is assigned, most likely a draft every year. THey have their own TC again with that team, they start about week 4 of the NFL season, they run until week 10. During that time the NFL players may get hurt, here's your replacements, in prime shape. After week 10, it's basically no different than guys getting signed off the street which happens already. Something like that. That's not my exact idea, an idea though.

So I don't really see your point about how it doesn't work in the fall.
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disaacs


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDLefebvre wrote:
I wasn't aware the NFL "product on the field" was in need of improving!


If you compare it to the on the field play from 20 years ago, it's clear it does. Because the play on the field itself is inferior. That may be a result of the rules changes on and off the field or something else, but the product itself needs a lot of work, because teams overall just aren't as good as they once were. It's still fun and it's easy to maintain interest because of the parity, but there's a lot of mediocre football being played out there. High-scoring football is not = to good football.

A minor league of some sort will help get players game experience that they can't really get solely in the limited practice time they get now or playing special teams. College football is okay only to a certain point, because they are playing a lot of bad football teams with inferior talent. With a minor league, there'd be a better bridge between college and the NFL level, because you're still playing against better competition than often occurs at the college level.
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NFLisnewNBA


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
JDLefebvre wrote:
NFLisnewNBA wrote:
NFL easily makes enough to pay for whatever it takes to maintain a D-league. It would be beneficial to the sport and to everyone playing it.


Why? Is the NFL having trouble getting players? evaluating players?

The NFL has a developmental league that they don't have to spend a dime on.... it's called the NCAA.

Why waste money if there is no need to do so?


He did say to the sport, not the NFL. I think he is right, but so are you. It would give opportunity to improve the sport, and NFL rosters, if only slightly. I do not believe the NFL would have interest in it though because I don't think it would be economically beneficial.

If they needed a better product to sell I think they would do it. The product they currently have is plenty good enough that they think they can improve profits more by expanding their fan base than improving the product. This is why there have been measures taken to lure less traditional football fans to their product. Even though we traditional fans moan and complain about it we still buy their product, so financially they are making good decisions. A minor league, financially, wouldn't be a good decision.


My point was more about for the people that aren't freaks of nature but still want a shot to prove them selves. It would be beneficial to the sport in the sense it would give more people the opportunity to play football thereby expanding the sport. The NFL would still get elite talent with or without it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Play the games on tuesday and wednesday night. I'll probably watch...
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BlueMoon25


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So are the rules different? like...can defenders actually hit a QB and no longer two hand touch?
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disaacs


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlueMoon25 wrote:
So are the rules different? like...can defenders actually hit a QB and no longer two hand touch?


If their goal is to become affiliated with the NFL, then the rules would have to be very similar to those of the NFL.
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