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Making a Murderer
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 40976
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ninerfanwheelz wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
ninerfanwheelz wrote:
Fantastic. Kachinsky is awful, hate that guy


legally this is pretty clearly the right decision IMO - but it still lets a guilty man walk. Which I find acceptable if he isn't a danger (which I don't think he is) to society.

Prison was likely the wrong place for him...ever.


"Guilty"


right, there's no reasonable doubt he was complicit in halbach's murder, but the confession was extracted improperly and led to a ton of conflicting stories from a confused dassey.
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BayRaider


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 5255
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brendan I think was involved but the confession was definitely illegally obtained and he was also coerced. He was also not very bright and was probably easily manipulated by Steven. With that said, he still is intelligent enough to know right from wrong. The system didn't go by the book so I don't have a problem with him walking, I don't really see him as a crazy killer that's a menace to society. Just a very easily manipulated kid with a low IQ.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 40976
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BayRaider wrote:
Brendan I think was involved but the confession was definitely illegally obtained and he was also coerced. He was also not very bright and was probably easily manipulated by Steven. With that said, he still is intelligent enough to know right from wrong. The system didn't go by the book so I don't have a problem with him walking, I don't really see him as a crazy killer that's a menace to society. Just a very easily manipulated kid with a low IQ.


very sadly, he is very, very damaged now so who knows what he is capable of. Like you said, I don't think he is an inherently dangerous person but he is a pretty damaged person now.
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BayRaider


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
Brendan I think was involved but the confession was definitely illegally obtained and he was also coerced. He was also not very bright and was probably easily manipulated by Steven. With that said, he still is intelligent enough to know right from wrong. The system didn't go by the book so I don't have a problem with him walking, I don't really see him as a crazy killer that's a menace to society. Just a very easily manipulated kid with a low IQ.


very sadly, he is very, very damaged now so who knows what he is capable of. Like you said, I don't think he is an inherently dangerous person but he is a pretty damaged person now.


Yeah he was already socially awkward before his 9 years of prison time, he's going to be even more awkward now. I would hope he goes through some kind of rehabilitation. I think it's unfair for us to say he can't recover and develop into normal human being and be part of society though. Give him a job somewhere, preferably something sociable, and let him adjust and develop.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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Location: Madison
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BayRaider wrote:

Yeah he was already socially awkward before his 9 years of prison time, he's going to be even more awkward now. I would hope he goes through some kind of rehabilitation. I think it's unfair for us to say he can't recover and develop into normal human being and be part of society though. Give him a job somewhere, preferably something sociable, and let him adjust and develop.


i don't think he can't, i just think it will be difficult - especially if he doesn't have a support network.
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ninerfanwheelz


Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 15998
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
ninerfanwheelz wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
ninerfanwheelz wrote:
Fantastic. Kachinsky is awful, hate that guy


legally this is pretty clearly the right decision IMO - but it still lets a guilty man walk. Which I find acceptable if he isn't a danger (which I don't think he is) to society.

Prison was likely the wrong place for him...ever.


"Guilty"


right, there's no reasonable doubt he was complicit in halbach's murder, but the confession was extracted improperly and led to a ton of conflicting stories from a confused dassey.


Oh
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BackfieldBlitz wrote:
Let that be a warning to the rest of the NFL
You don't give the ball back to Blaine Gabbert
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 69131
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
ninerfanwheelz wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
ninerfanwheelz wrote:
Fantastic. Kachinsky is awful, hate that guy


legally this is pretty clearly the right decision IMO - but it still lets a guilty man walk. Which I find acceptable if he isn't a danger (which I don't think he is) to society.

Prison was likely the wrong place for him...ever.


"Guilty"


right, there's no reasonable doubt he was complicit in halbach's murder, but the confession was extracted improperly and led to a ton of conflicting stories from a confused dassey.


Then they can refile charges and convict him again. But there are a lot of reasonable people who would disagree with your assessment of there being no reasonable doubt.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:


Then they can refile charges and convict him again. But there are a lot of reasonable people who would disagree with your assessment of there being no reasonable doubt.


only if they've only gotten their 'facts' from the biased docudrama series.

any reasonable person who has looked at the facts will come away understanding that dassey certainly knew about it and participated in at least some part of the rape/murder/corpse mutilation. The degree to which he was involved is certainly unclear, however - and reasonable people will disagree about that.
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KManX89


Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 9419
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm watching it right now. Cool
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
jrry32 wrote:


Then they can refile charges and convict him again. But there are a lot of reasonable people who would disagree with your assessment of there being no reasonable doubt.


only if they've only gotten their 'facts' from the biased docudrama series.

any reasonable person who has looked at the facts will come away understanding that dassey certainly knew about it and participated in at least some part of the rape/murder/corpse mutilation. The degree to which he was involved is certainly unclear, however - and reasonable people will disagree about that.


Plenty of reasonable people who looked at the facts don't agree with you. As usual, you mistake your opinion for fact.

But as I said before, if what you're saying is true, they will refile charges and convict him again (of some crime). It's that easy if no reasonable person could think he wasn't involved.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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Location: Madison
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:


Plenty of reasonable people who looked at the facts don't agree with you. As usual, you mistake your opinion for fact.

But as I said before, if what you're saying is true, they will refile charges and convict him again (of some crime). It's that easy if no reasonable person could think he wasn't involved.


it is true that reasonable people can act unreasonably.

Implying that it would somehow prove his innocence if charges aren't refiled and/or he isn't re-convicted is absurd. Any person acting reasonably would recognize this as well.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
jrry32 wrote:


Plenty of reasonable people who looked at the facts don't agree with you. As usual, you mistake your opinion for fact.

But as I said before, if what you're saying is true, they will refile charges and convict him again (of some crime). It's that easy if no reasonable person could think he wasn't involved.


it is true that reasonable people can act unreasonably.

Implying that it would somehow prove his innocence if charges aren't refiled and/or he isn't re-convicted is absurd. Any person acting reasonably would recognize this as well.


Actually, it's quite reasonable to explicitly state that if they don't refile charges and convict him, then your opinion is wrong.

This discussion has nothing to do with innocence. Rather, it has to do with your claims that 1) he's guilty and 2) no reasonable person could believe he wasn't involved.

If the charges are not refiled and/or he's not found guilty, he's not guilty. And your second point is clearly incorrect in that scenario.

Innocence? Not something we can speak to.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


If the charges are not refiled and/or he's not found guilty, he's not guilty.

lol

Any reasonable person understands that dassey can both be thought guilty by the D.A. and yet charges may not be filed for a host of political and other contextual reasons.

Unless you are actually referring to being legally guilty or something, but that would be the most inane argument ever.
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BrettFavre004


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 20582
Location: Galesville, WI
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am from Manitowoc and one of my best friends is now on the police force there. We had some fun chats about this. =)
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 40976
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BrettFavre004 wrote:
I am from Manitowoc and one of my best friends is now on the police force there. We had some fun chats about this. =)


Im not from the immediate area but know people who are and eveyone i know who has followed this story more than the netflix drama series is pretty disappointed and disgusted with the public reaction from the drama series.

Its unfortunate. Must be excrutiatingly difficult for the Halbach family. They deserved better than the crap the directors put on the screen.
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