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Two mock drafts for the price of none
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Crickett


Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 4904
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

onejayhawk wrote:
27. Kansas City Chiefs - Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State
(59). Kansas City Chiefs - Zay Jones, WR, Eastern Carolina
(91). Kansas City Chiefs - Nico Siragusa, G, San Jose State
(104). Kansas City Chiefs (Compensatory Selection) - Jourdan Lewis, CB, Michigan
(132). Kansas City Chiefs - Brad Kaaya, QB, Miami

Interesting approach. Ka'aya is the preferred mid-round QB, though I doubt he lasts 100 picks, much less 130.
Cook is sliding enough to be interesting and the hope-for players did not. Maybe, but not with Zay Jones in the second. They already have Tyreek Hill. Gerald Everett makes more sense.
Siragusa is a bit early, better at #104 and take Witherspoon here, avoiding the charater issues on Lewis.

27. Kansas City Chiefs - Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson
(59). Kansas City Chiefs - Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma
(91). Kansas City Chiefs - Juju Smith Schuster, WR, USC
(104). Kansas City Chiefs (Compensatory Selection) - Sidney Jones, CB, Washington
(132). Kansas City Chiefs - Danny Isidora, G, Miami

Yuck. I am not a fan of Watson at #27, but it seems to be the consensus.
Mixon is badly wrong. I have him as do not draft but, at minimum, he's two or more rounds early. The domestic violence issues are far worse than Hills, and TH lasted until round 5.
What is it with the WR? It is not a priority position. ILB is. CB is. OG is, but not WR. Lose Schuster. Watkins, Qualls, Witherspoon are all much better, not to mention Siragusa again.
Jones at this point is a good pick and Isidora will do.

J


Mixon has garnered enough interest in pre-draft workouts from various teams that I would be very surprised if he made it to the Chiefs pick in round three let alone rounds four or five.

One thing I wanted to address is the comment "Siragusa again". I actually went out of my way to try to make sure as few picks (outside of the top ten) as I could manage repeated from one mock to the other. A good example of this (and this is sort of a reply to Nickpeloso1 as well) is Dallas. Originally mock one for Dallas was Jabrill Peppers, Jordan Willis, Howard Wilson and Jeremy Sprinkle while mock two was Kevin King, Jordan Willis, Eddie Jackson and Jeremy Sprinkle. I didn't want to post two mocks where half the picks for Dallas were identical. So I changed them. The Cowboys have apparently met with Takkerist McKinley three times and need pass rushing help. So he become the #1 pick for Dallas in mock #1.

As for quarterback and wide receiver, I addressed this in the comments.

Crickett wrote:
Kansas City Chiefs
Mock Draft #1
27. Kansas City Chiefs - Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State
(59). Kansas City Chiefs - Zay Jones, WR, Eastern Carolina
(91). Kansas City Chiefs - Nico Siragusa, G, San Jose State
(104). Kansas City Chiefs (Compensatory Selection) - Jourdan Lewis, CB, Michigan
(132). Kansas City Chiefs - Brad Kaaya, QB, Miami

Mock Draft #2
27. Kansas City Chiefs - Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson
(59). Kansas City Chiefs - Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma
(91). Kansas City Chiefs - Juju Smith Schuster, WR, USC
(104). Kansas City Chiefs (Compensatory Selection) - Sidney Jones, CB, Washington
(132). Kansas City Chiefs - Danny Isidora, G, Miami

I fully admit I may be significantly overestimating how much the Chiefs need a wide receiver and to be honest, they allowed me a buffer to prevent certain wide receivers from falling well further than they should. I really don't think Zay Jones is going to fall out of the second round and the Chiefs basically provided a convenient option. Likewise, even though I'm not a fan of USC receivers as draft prospects, I don't think Juju Smith Schuster is going to fall out of day two. So they both ended up on the Chiefs in their respective mock drafts. The way I figure it, Kansas City has an underperforming Jeremy Maclin slated to make $13.4 million next year and drafting a replacement now might not be the worst idea, especially given how deep this draft is at wide receiver. The Chiefs are a value oriented team, and I think there are much better options at receiver than inside linebacker this year.

I'm just going to say this now, I'm not as high on Kizer as other Chiefs..... fan on this forum. If it weren't for the interest Chicago apparently has in him, I might be mocking him to Arizona, Houston, Washington, or New York in the second round. After drafting a very productive Tyreek Hill last year, I would expect the Chiefs to end up with either Dalvin Cook or Joe Mixon. Both are supremely talented running backs but could scare some teams off with their.... off the field issues. The Chiefs have not shied away from players like that and it has paid off handsomely for them.

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ttitansfan4life


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every pick for the Titans is great except Watkins. DL is not a need and he's not playing over the likes of DaQuan Jones, Karl Klug, Jurrell Casey, Austin Johnson, and Sylvester Williams. I'm not high on Williams but he was brought in to play significant snaps. DL to me is the strongest unit on the team. LeBeau likes his DL to eat up blocks unless it's a sub package in which Casey and Klug are the two playing. I'd honestly go with Cooper Kupp there at that spot. I'm not high on Kupp but I think he's exactly the type of player Robinson and Mularkey would want. I think doubling up on WR in the 3rd with two very productive players like JuJu and Kupp would be ideal especially considering the Titans current WR depth chart. A depth chart of Matthews, JuJu, Sharpe, Kupp and having two TEs in Walker and Njoku who can lineup at any WR spot on a few plays isn't the worst. Certainly gives Mariota more weapons. If you were to extend this draft CB, S, and QB depth would be ideal.
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mountainpd


Joined: 21 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dolphins would take Lamp over Feeney
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Crickett


Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 4904
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttitansfan4life wrote:
Every pick for the Titans is great except Watkins. DL is not a need and he's not playing over the likes of DaQuan Jones, Karl Klug, Jurrell Casey, Austin Johnson, and Sylvester Williams. I'm not high on Williams but he was brought in to play significant snaps. DL to me is the strongest unit on the team. LeBeau likes his DL to eat up blocks unless it's a sub package in which Casey and Klug are the two playing. I'd honestly go with Cooper Kupp there at that spot. I'm not high on Kupp but I think he's exactly the type of player Robinson and Mularkey would want. I think doubling up on WR in the 3rd with two very productive players like JuJu and Kupp would be ideal especially considering the Titans current WR depth chart. A depth chart of Matthews, JuJu, Sharpe, Kupp and having two TEs in Walker and Njoku who can lineup at any WR spot on a few plays isn't the worst. Certainly gives Mariota more weapons. If you were to extend this draft CB, S, and QB depth would be ideal.


I will admit I don't know what the Titans plan to do with Austin Johnson. I didn't get the purpose behind that pick last year and from what I saw, he didn't do much as a rookie to illustrate why the Titans spent such an early pick on him. That was compounded when the Titans signed another nose tackle. Is Johnson moving to end, is he going to split time with Williams, is he just a wasted pick, I do not know. I looked at where the Titans needed depth and it came down to middle linebacker, outside linebacker and defensive end. I went with d-end in both drafts because I'm not sold on Klug, as I said before I don't know what Austin Johnson's role on the Titans is and most importantly DaQuan Jones is going into a contract year.

As for receiver, #4 WR doesn't seem like something the Titans really need to spend a pick in the first four rounds on. This is a team that loves to use two TE sets and if they take Njoku in the first or Jake Butt in round three, that would certainly continue. In either event, I think the Titans are getting a premiere TE in what is a very deep TE class. I think Butt would be a late first/early second rounder if not for that ACL tear. I think whichever team gets him in the third is getting a steal.

Just the same, it's not completely outside the realm of possibility later on. There are certainly some interesting late round receiver options in this mock such as Malachi Dupre/Josh Malone (depending on which mock you're looking at), Isaiah Ford, Ryan Switzer, Robert Davis, Noah Brown, Taywan Taylor, KD Cannon and others.

mountainpd wrote:
Dolphins would take Lamp over Feeney


I would think so especially since I've written a total of five mocks this year with only one where the Dolphins didn't draft Forest Lamp in the first round. I even have the Dolphins selecting Lamp in the alternate mock draft. HOWEVER....

the Dolphins have brought Dan Feeney and Isaac Asiata in for workouts and they haven't done so with Forest Lamp. At least not yet. They apparently didn't even meet with Lamp at the combine. So I have to consider the possibility that for whatever reason, they could pass on Lamp who most of us have rated as the #1 interior lineman prospect this year in favor of someone else.

There was always going to be one of these mock drafts where Lamp wasn't the pick if only to vary things up. Originally the pick was going to be Cam Robinson instead of Dan Feeney, but the Dolphins allegedly haven't met with Robinson either.
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JaguarCrazy2832


Joined: 28 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think i wanna go DT early but LF is good
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mlucas12002


Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 635
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your first shot at the Browns one would make me a very happy man. The only thing I *might* change is that it would be awfully hard to pass on Jonathan Allen at 12, but OJ Howard would still be a great pick.
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Myth


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 172
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Detroit Lions
Mock Draft #1
21. Detroit Lions - Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan
(53). Detroit Lions - Raekwon Mcmillan, LB, Ohio State
(85). Detroit Lions - Cameron Sutton, CB, Tennessee
(127). Detroit Lions - ArDarius Stewart, WR, Alabama

Mock Draft #2
21. Detroit Lions - Derek Barnett, DE, Tennessee
(53). Detroit Lions - Jarrad Davis, ILB, Florida
(85). Detroit Lions - Carlos Henderson, WR/KR, Louisiana Tech
(127). Detroit Lions - Shaquille Griffin, DB, Central Florida

Not much to say about this one: Its pretty clear I think the Lions top needs are defensive end, linebacker, slot receiver and cornerback. They seem to have quite a bit of interest in Taco Charlton (local college team at a need position after all), but if Barnett fell to them, I don't think they could pass on him.


Your assumptions about the needs are incomplete. The 2 primary needs that the Lions have are a 3T DT and a LB who can cover the TE and be the leader on defense. In fact the linebacker position is so weak that they could take both OLB and ILB in the top 4 rounds. Then, of course, as you know they need a #2 (boundary) CB who can push Lawson to his better position over the slot WR. A strong-side DE who can stuff the run and put in some power moves occasionally is more of a need than a pure pass rusher.

Regarding the slot WR, I don't see this as I high round need. They indicated before Ebron got hurt and Pettigrew never recovered from injury that they wanted to play more 12 personnel. All of their receivers are on the small side and if they can find a goal-line big WR to take Anquan Bolden's place, maybe that would fit. They also like to use their RBs as their third option pass receivers.

Supply and demand probably means that LB and DT will be taken in the 1st 2-3 rounds. And since, I think the run on DEs and CBs starts in the 2nd round, they'll probably see what is left between those two positions for their 3rd round pick. After that it's probably a toss up between a TE (and I can see that being a combo or a move TE, though lots of Lion fans are going to push the blocking TE...but those can be found in UDFAs) or a power RB...or possibly a FS because that is a future need and is a pretty deep position.

[I'm not sure what it means right now, but the Lions upped their scouting budget significantly (per VP Rod Wood) this year and have had position coaches and scouts at almost every pro-day that Gil Brandt, Walter Football's guy, and other press have commented on. I'm hopeful, though.]

There are four things we Lion fans think we know about Bob Quinn:
1. Quinn has his own metrics that he values for each position (he has made mention of metrics both this year and last, but more pointedly this year).
2. Athletic freaks will, most of the time, get a higher grade than guys who put up good college stats but have questionable athletic ability. However, BQ wants smart players too, so its not ALL about the measurables.
3. BQ's not a total need-based drafter, though he leaned that way last year, but if a player is great value he will alter his game plan for that round.
4. Trading didn't seem to be in his thought patterns last year, because his picks were very quick and decisive, with little time for teams to give him offers and trade scenarios worked out before the draft didn't happen. However, for this draft he has an extra OG (power RG) that previous GM Mayhew drafted 1st round, who now doesn't seem to fit the (balanced/zone) scheme, who he could try to get a mid-low rd pick or package to move up in a round. So we will see what his tendency really is. Normally an OG isn't much of trading chip but this draft has some serious lack in o-line talent.
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Crickett


Joined: 27 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As weird as it sounds, I'm not sure the Lions are going to really address defensive tackle early like they did last year. They've chosen to keep Ngata and signed Akeem Spence to a three year deal that IIRC correctly is fully guaranteed this year and has some decently sized dead cap if they cut him next year. If they draft Taco, they could in theory kick him inside on passing downs if they have someone else they like on the edge (although I don't know who that would be).

I know it's where Lions fans want them to go, but it's rare for a team to devote an entire draft to defense and I wanted at least one of the players selected in the first four rounds for the Lions to be on offense in these mock drafts. I too don't think it's an early round need, but there will be some mid round gems at WR this year and I think the Lions could take advantage of that given how little they have at receiver behind Tate and Jones.

Regarding the linebackers they chose: The Lions have displayed at least some interest in Raekwon McMillan through the draft process and Jarrad Davis is an athletic linebacker who would be an absolute steal if the Lions were able to nab him in the second round. I'll admit it's fairly unlikely it will play out that way, but every year someone unexpected falls in the draft.
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onejayhawk


Joined: 14 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
Mixon has garnered enough interest in pre-draft workouts from various teams that I would be very surprised if he made it to the Chiefs pick in round three let alone rounds four or five.

I would not be surprised if he was UDFA. His agent was smart putting the dirty video out early and I may have over reacted somewhat. That said, this is a serious off field issue in a stacked RB class.

I am still predicting day 3. Round 3 would not surprise me much, but round 2 definitely would.

J
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really like number 2

Could live with number 1
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Kodaraw


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mock Draft #2
23. New York Giants - Zach Cunningham, ILB, Vanderbilt
(55). New York Giants - Montravius Adams, DT, Auburn
(87). New York Giants - Antonio Garcia, OT, Troy
(140). New York Giants Brad Kaaya, QB, Miami

One of the things I wanted to do with these mocks drafts was have one where I projected what I think could happen if the Giants weren't able to resign Johnathan Hankins and one where they did. But since Hankins signed with the Colts, I changed it so the Giants were drafting a defensive tackle in both drafts. Prior to the change, I had projected Taylor Moton to the Giants in the second and Jake Butt in the third of the alternate mock. If I had written a third mock draft, I would probably do one where the Giants drafted David Njoku in the first round (he's a top 20 pick in both mocks so he didn't make to the Giants in much the same way Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin didn't) and they didn't draft OL at all in the first four rounds. I have the Giants drafting a left tackle in all of my mocks, but I think it's a very real possibility they may just go with what they've got at o-line now that they've resigned John Jerry and signed D.J. Fluker.

I would love, love, love Njoku, Davis, Garcia, Peterman.
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The OUTLAW


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first mock is far better for the Browns than the second.
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CutList


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both position sequences for the Packers are entirely plausible. I would say though that in your first example, if they are going to go offensive line in Round 2, Moton checks off more of the team's usual o-line boxes than Pat Elflein does.
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INbengalfan


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like aspects of each of them for the Bengals, but don't absolutely love either one.

But man, the effort you put into this, I loved reading it. felt like I got two weeks of NFLN coverage all in one read. Thanks
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Myth


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

As weird as it sounds, I'm not sure the Lions are going to really address defensive tackle early like they did last year. They've chosen to keep Ngata and signed Akeem Spence to a three year deal that IIRC correctly is fully guaranteed this year and has some decently sized dead cap if they cut him next year. If they draft Taco, they could in theory kick him inside on passing downs if they have someone else they like on the edge (although I don't know who that would be).

I know it's where Lions fans want them to go, but it's rare for a team to devote an entire draft to defense and I wanted at least one of the players selected in the first four rounds for the Lions to be on offense in these mock drafts. I too don't think it's an early round need, but there will be some mid round gems at WR this year and I think the Lions could take advantage of that given how little they have at receiver behind Tate and Jones.

Regarding the linebackers they chose: The Lions have displayed at least some interest in Raekwon McMillan through the draft process and Jarrad Davis is an athletic linebacker who would be an absolute steal if the Lions were able to nab him in the second round. I'll admit it's fairly unlikely it will play out that way, but every year someone unexpected falls in the draft


If you judged who they were taking by who they have had contact, there would be about 200+ picks to choose from. LOL.

It's not really about Lions fans wanting defense, it's about logic. The offense was already much better stocked overall with skill positions. Then Bob Quinn supplimented the o-line through free agency with the most expensive free agents that they spent money on, with starting level players for the o-line.

Conversely, the defense was without a doubt in my mind the worst in the NFL. If you want to debate that, I feel pretty confident I will win. The linebackers and d-line were horrendous. The secondary was probably the best part of that defense with 2 players who were decent. And the players picked up in free agency so far for defense are all depth/backup level.

Cornelius Washington and Akeem Spence are the best defensive additions, so far. I'm not sure anyone could pick either of those two out of a lineup. Corny is going to fill the non-premier LDE, strong-side base DE. Ziggy will be back healthy (which he wasn't all last year) and they have 3 pass rush specialists. I mean you can never have enough pass rushers, I guess... But honestly, that's not the area they need the most help.

Spence may or may not be able to be a starting pass-rushing/gap shooting 3T DT. I'm skeptical that he's a starter because that has not been his past role (which iirc was more of a rotational run stuffer). Therefore, I think he's just another rotational piece at worst and honestly there's little likelihood that he could be any worse than what they had starting last year. Haloti Ngata has clearly lost a step, nor can he be relied on to be healthy for more than 8 games. A'Shawn provides no qb pressure whatsoever and his best play is knocking balls down by getting his hands up as he stands 6-10 yards away from the QB ... every single down. He makes a fine tree, but he never lands on the QB. And those are the ones BQ kept. Jordan Hill (another free agent) and Kyrie Thornton (yawn) are filler pieces who could be cut without us even realizing they were gone. There isn't a difference maker at DT anywhere on the roster. Overall, BQ restocked the backup depth with some players with upside, but no history of success.

Linebacker was even worse last year... which didn't help either the d-line or the secondary. Tahir Whitehead was the only healthy starting level LB (and I'm being generous calling him that) on the squad at one point. BQ got rid of Levy because he couldn't get on the field and was getting old. So, the free agent linebacker BQ picked up is Paul Worrilow. Ask Falcon fans how well they think he'll do for the Lions. I'm just hopeful he can be a contributor on special teams at this point.

So, this isn't about Lion fans' wants. It's about common sense. They need starters at either MLB or WLB, or both (preferably a playmaker because they don't have one at that level of the defense); the 3T DT to make the d-line competent -- even if you believe in Spence; a #2 CB; and 4th-ly a DE who can be a big body who could give Corny a break/run for the money. And then there are depth needs at FS, TE, and power RB before you ever get to a slot-receiver (which isn't a real need because the RBs and TEs also fill the slot and they have 2 guys at WR already who can only play slot receiver (TJ Jones and Jace Billingsley) plus Golden Tate, who can make nickel CBs look silly from the slot).

Honestly the only WR that I couldn't pass on is Corey Davis, who is the only #1 WR in this draft. ... and if he's there at 21, BQ would be fielding trades like a boss. (BTW, we aren't taking another Mike Williams. Ross is a no go. No JuJu is good juju. The 5th round may eventually be where they find value for a big body WR, but even that's pushing it. IE Chris Godwin is one of my personal favorite WRs in this draft, and his value for the Lions doesn't match where he will be taken no matter how good he is.) The most likely offensive players to be taken in the 3rd or 4th rounds is either a TE or power RB. And I'm not giving great odds on that.

I know I'm not going to change your opinion. That's okay. But don't say a Lion fan didn't give you any input to help clarify things. C'est la vie.
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