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IDOG_det
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 36892
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 Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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I'm loving this 
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"Strength is meaningless in o-line play if there is no explosive, or speed-strength, quality to the strength."
- LeCharles Bentley
R.I.P. Stylish |
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Calvin-Stafford
Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 1795
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| IDOG_det wrote: | | I'm loving this |
You love stubbornness and constant switching of goalposts to justify said stubbornness? |
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Sllim Pickens
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 20827
Location: Middle of the Mitten
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Rockcity wrote: | | Nnivolcm wrote: | | Rockcity wrote: | | Wtf you wanna know?? Who did obi face?? He didn't play cb |
Are you really trying to say that safeties don't have coverage responsibilities at Uconn? Name a QB, WR, TE, or hell even a RB that fits the criteria you've put on Tabor needing to face 1st round talent to impress you.
| Rockcity wrote: | | Nnivolcm wrote: | Your argument against Tabor was lack of quality opponents. I pointed out your inconsistency on how much you care about that trait, and you change your argument to Tabor played with other good players.
Well Myles Garrett had two defensive team mates drafted in the first three rounds last weekend. I guess he's garbage too. |
I did not change no argument. It's everything... |
Only when it's convenient though, right? |
can't believe you can't follow along. When I view teez I see a easy ride..does he have some talent ya but very limited player..
Yes when your on a team stacked as the gators I expect more |
Stats show he was one of the best CB's in college football as far as allowing yards, completions, TDs. Do you mean you expect more speed when surrounded by talent? If so that's kind of weird.
I don't love the pick, but he was a first round grade before his 40 based on his play on the field. I think he has concerns but he was one of the top 2/3 DB's available so it wasn't a stretch.
I am shocked Rock is so salty on the pick since he was arguing all offseason how we need to add DBs. He got his wish and still isn't happy. |
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FootballPhreak
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 36589
Location: Clio, MI
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Sllim Pickens wrote: | Stats show he was one of the best CB's in college football as far as allowing yards, completions, TDs. Do you mean you expect more speed when surrounded by talent? If so that's kind of weird.
I don't love the pick, but he was a first round grade before his 40 based on his play on the field. I think he has concerns but he was one of the top 2/3 DB's available so it wasn't a stretch.
I am shocked Rock is so salty on the pick since he was arguing all offseason how we need to add DBs. He got his wish and still isn't happy. |
I won't defend rock's method of debate, but I will defend his opinion minimally. We can throw out all the 40 time, comp level, whatever. I just flat felt he was AT LEAST a round early and there were 6-7 better CBs available. Not that he wasn't good or that he wouldn't have been a good pick...in the 3rd or 4th rd. Just that the gun was jumped and there were at least 32 other picks that would have been better.
I get the pick, I understand what they see, and I hope I am wrong. TBH it feels a ton like the Slay pick a few years back. I felt exactly the same way then and it turned out fine. So C'est la vie. It just don't look real pretty from my armchair currently 
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| Draft_FanAddict wrote: | | If that doesn't concern you, I don't know what would...a missing head? |
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IDOG_det
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 36892
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Calvin-Stafford wrote: | | IDOG_det wrote: | | I'm loving this |
You love stubbornness and constant switching of goalposts to justify said stubbornness? |
No, I love seeing him make a fool of himself to argue over something he's so clearly wrong about.
_________________
"Strength is meaningless in o-line play if there is no explosive, or speed-strength, quality to the strength."
- LeCharles Bentley
R.I.P. Stylish |
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Nnivolcm
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 11146
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| IDOG_det wrote: | | Calvin-Stafford wrote: | | IDOG_det wrote: | | I'm loving this |
You love stubbornness and constant switching of goalposts to justify said stubbornness? |
No, I love seeing him make a fool of himself to argue over something he's so clearly wrong about. |
It was my mid morning entertainment too.
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| Montana badboy wrote: | | Nnivolcm is a boss. That is all. |
| LionsFTW wrote: | | All hail Nnivolcm. |
Team Stylish |
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Calvin-Stafford
Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 1795
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| FootballPhreak wrote: | | Sllim Pickens wrote: | Stats show he was one of the best CB's in college football as far as allowing yards, completions, TDs. Do you mean you expect more speed when surrounded by talent? If so that's kind of weird.
I don't love the pick, but he was a first round grade before his 40 based on his play on the field. I think he has concerns but he was one of the top 2/3 DB's available so it wasn't a stretch.
I am shocked Rock is so salty on the pick since he was arguing all offseason how we need to add DBs. He got his wish and still isn't happy. |
I won't defend rock's method of debate, but I will defend his opinion minimally. We can throw out all the 40 time, comp level, whatever. I just flat felt he was AT LEAST a round early and there were 6-7 better CBs available. Not that he wasn't good or that he wouldn't have been a good pick...in the 3rd or 4th rd. Just that the gun was jumped and there were at least 32 other picks that would have been better.
I get the pick, I understand what they see, and I hope I am wrong. TBH it feels a ton like the Slay pick a few years back. I felt exactly the same way then and it turned out fine. So C'est la vie. It just don't look real pretty from my armchair currently |
I'm not a big fan of the Tabor pick either. I thought there were superior picks left on the board. But I do see positive attributes there. I do see fluid hips, an ability to play the ball in the air, size, and short-area quickness, with potential to anticipate routes. And I don't think his tape showcases a 4.6 or 4.7 40 speed, more of a 4.5 type. I think if Austin valued those traits and they think they can work on his weaknesses, like over-aggressiveness, lack of long speed, and struggling with vanilla man or press coverage, then this might not end up a bad pick. |
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dmudd
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 1576
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I tried finding it any one know his splits alot of plays happen within 15 yards |
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Mayhem50
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 189
Location: Beverly Hills, Mi.
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Watch an interview with Grover Quin last night on Fox 2. He said way to much stock is put into 40 times. He ran a 4.50 at his combine, but stated he is around 5.00 now. It's not about how fast you can cover a space, it's how you play & control that space. Quin likes what he's seen on Tabor & thinks his feel & timing will be a big asset. A lot of people on here think the 40 is the true measure of a player.... So I quess we should have never picked up Quin! His 40 is way to slow & he'll never contribute. |
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LionsFTW
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 20853
Location: Old forum.
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Mayhem50 wrote: | | Watch an interview with Grover Quin last night on Fox 2. He said way to much stock is put into 40 times. He ran a 4.50 at his combine, but stated he is around 5.00 now. It's not about how fast you can cover a space, it's how you play & control that space. Quin likes what he's seen on Tabor & thinks his feel & timing will be a big asset. A lot of people on here think the 40 is the true measure of a player.... So I quess we should have never picked up Quin! His 40 is way to slow & he'll never contribute. |
I see what you're saying, but at the same time, speed for a CB is much more important than speed for a Safety. If it turns out that Teez IS too slow to play CB, I can see him being a great Free Safety.
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| thelawoffices wrote: | | theuntouchable wrote: | | What's a matter TLO? Cat got your tongue? |
I have mono you [inappropriate/removed] |
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Calvin-Stafford
Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 1795
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| LionsFTW wrote: | | Mayhem50 wrote: | | Watch an interview with Grover Quin last night on Fox 2. He said way to much stock is put into 40 times. He ran a 4.50 at his combine, but stated he is around 5.00 now. It's not about how fast you can cover a space, it's how you play & control that space. Quin likes what he's seen on Tabor & thinks his feel & timing will be a big asset. A lot of people on here think the 40 is the true measure of a player.... So I quess we should have never picked up Quin! His 40 is way to slow & he'll never contribute. |
I see what you're saying, but at the same time, speed for a CB is much more important than speed for a Safety. If it turns out that Teez IS too slow to play CB, I can see him being a great Free Safety. |
I don't reaĺly see a problem with Tabor's on-field speed. Is he the fastest guy, no, but neither were Sherman and Norman. I don't think his testing speed entirely accurately portrays his speed on the field. |
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Iamcanadian
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 295
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Mayhem50 wrote: | | Watch an interview with Grover Quin last night on Fox 2. He said way to much stock is put into 40 times. He ran a 4.50 at his combine, but stated he is around 5.00 now. It's not about how fast you can cover a space, it's how you play & control that space. Quin likes what he's seen on Tabor & thinks his feel & timing will be a big asset. A lot of people on here think the 40 is the true measure of a player.... So I quess we should have never picked up Quin! His 40 is way to slow & he'll never contribute. |
4.50 is very acceptable for the 40, it isn't elite, but it is perfectly within the acceptable limits for the position and if as he says, he now runs a 5.0, he'll be out of the league pretty soon, but I doubt he would tell the league he is currently that slow, more likely it was a smokescreen, hoping opponents would believe him.
Tabor's 40 time is not even close to being acceptable, it isn't even fast enough to play Safety in the NFL, nevermind CB.
While Tabor is on the field, we can never play man to man coverage. QB's will come at him in man defense every time they get even a whiff that it is the defense we have called. For any WR who runs in the 4.30's or 4.40's, he would be 6 to 9 feet behind the receiver on a fly pattern or any deep route. I do not care how good he is at positioning himself or how quick he is or how he uses his hands, some WR's are going to beat him on deep patterns every game by a mile, they have real speed and football speed as well.
You can play him in zone coverage period, but he will never see the field on man to man coverage and for a 2nd round pick, that is unacceptable.
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IDOG_det
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 36892
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Iamcanadian wrote: | | Mayhem50 wrote: | | Watch an interview with Grover Quin last night on Fox 2. He said way to much stock is put into 40 times. He ran a 4.50 at his combine, but stated he is around 5.00 now. It's not about how fast you can cover a space, it's how you play & control that space. Quin likes what he's seen on Tabor & thinks his feel & timing will be a big asset. A lot of people on here think the 40 is the true measure of a player.... So I quess we should have never picked up Quin! His 40 is way to slow & he'll never contribute. |
4.50 is very acceptable for the 40, it isn't elite, but it is perfectly within the acceptable limits for the position and if as he says, he now runs a 5.0, he'll be out of the league pretty soon, but I doubt he would tell the league he is currently that slow, more likely it was a smokescreen, hoping opponents would believe him.
Tabor's 40 time is not even close to being acceptable, it isn't even fast enough to play Safety in the NFL, nevermind CB.
While Tabor is on the field, we can never play man to man coverage. QB's will come at him in man defense every time they get even a whiff that it is the defense we have called. For any WR who runs in the 4.30's or 4.40's, he would be 6 to 9 feet behind the receiver on a fly pattern or any deep route. I do not care how good he is at positioning himself or how quick he is or how he uses his hands, some WR's are going to beat him on deep patterns every game by a mile, they have real speed and football speed as well.
You can play him in zone coverage period, but he will never see the field on man to man coverage and for a 2nd round pick, that is unacceptable. |
you still dont get it. That 6 to 9 feet garbage isnt real, so stop talking about it like it means anything. He was faster on the field than his 40 time and the corner isnt lining up right next to the wide receiver. They arent just sprinting next to each other every play, and even if that were the case, a WR still wouldn't be that much faster than him because he ran the 40 injured. The Lions run a lot of off man coverage, which is a coverage Tabor is pretty good at. The majority of the time, the Lions corners have safety help. So, even if he were as slow as you want him to be, a safety would be in position to help on a deep ball by the time the WR has time to run 40 yards.
Also, Glover Quin is smokescreening anybody, he's just being honest. He's slower now than he was when he was younger, that's how speed works. Once you get past age ~25 speed begins to decline. He's older than 25, his speed has declined. That's pretty simple and not a secret. He probably doesn't run as slow as 5.0, but he also probably hasn't ran a 40 since making the NFL because it isnt important.
_________________
"Strength is meaningless in o-line play if there is no explosive, or speed-strength, quality to the strength."
- LeCharles Bentley
R.I.P. Stylish |
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Calvin-Stafford
Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 1795
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| 40 times straight-up don't matter. What matters is on-field speed, which is often different than 40 time speed. No one's out there trying to argue that Josh Norman doesn't have the speed to play cornerback despite his combine run of 4.66 seconds. |
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Iamcanadian
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 295
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| IDOG_det wrote: | | Iamcanadian wrote: | | Mayhem50 wrote: | | Watch an interview with Grover Quin last night on Fox 2. He said way to much stock is put into 40 times. He ran a 4.50 at his combine, but stated he is around 5.00 now. It's not about how fast you can cover a space, it's how you play & control that space. Quin likes what he's seen on Tabor & thinks his feel & timing will be a big asset. A lot of people on here think the 40 is the true measure of a player.... So I quess we should have never picked up Quin! His 40 is way to slow & he'll never contribute. |
4.50 is very acceptable for the 40, it isn't elite, but it is perfectly within the acceptable limits for the position and if as he says, he now runs a 5.0, he'll be out of the league pretty soon, but I doubt he would tell the league he is currently that slow, more likely it was a smokescreen, hoping opponents would believe him.
Tabor's 40 time is not even close to being acceptable, it isn't even fast enough to play Safety in the NFL, nevermind CB.
While Tabor is on the field, we can never play man to man coverage. QB's will come at him in man defense every time they get even a whiff that it is the defense we have called. For any WR who runs in the 4.30's or 4.40's, he would be 6 to 9 feet behind the receiver on a fly pattern or any deep route. I do not care how good he is at positioning himself or how quick he is or how he uses his hands, some WR's are going to beat him on deep patterns every game by a mile, they have real speed and football speed as well.
You can play him in zone coverage period, but he will never see the field on man to man coverage and for a 2nd round pick, that is unacceptable. |
you still dont get it. That 6 to 9 feet garbage isnt real, so stop talking about it like it means anything. He was faster on the field than his 40 time and the corner isnt lining up right next to the wide receiver. They arent just sprinting next to each other every play, and even if that were the case, a WR still wouldn't be that much faster than him because he ran the 40 injured. The Lions run a lot of off man coverage, which is a coverage Tabor is pretty good at. The majority of the time, the Lions corners have safety help. So, even if he were as slow as you want him to be, a safety would be in position to help on a deep ball by the time the WR has time to run 40 yards.
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Have you ever watched a group of runner matched together on film at the Combine. 10ths of a second is easily 2 or 3 feet and Tabor ran a lot slower than that and I never read or heard that Tabor ran injured( if I am wrong on that point I apologize). Football speed does not count for a whole lot in the NFL, most of the elite runners have football speed as well and remain simply faster than a CB who relies on it entirely.
As for Safety help, yes, teams will try to provide Safety help if possible, but that is not always the case. If teams send out 4 or 5 receivers on a pass play, man coverage is just that, man to man with no Safety help.
I said he would be fine in zone coverage, but teams like to mix up coverages in today's game and IMO, he will always be a serious liability in man coverage and hence, I do not think he was a prospect worth drafting in round 2. I hope I am wrong and you are right, but it makes me very nervous. |
Also, Glover Quin is smokescreening anybody, he's just being honest. He's slower now than he was when he was younger, that's how speed works. Once you get past age ~25 speed begins to decline. He's older than 25, his speed has declined. That's pretty simple and not a secret. He probably doesn't run as slow as 5.0, but he also probably hasn't ran a 40 since making the NFL because it isnt important. |
I agree, I doubt he has run a 40 since the Combine and probably knows he has lost a step, but I doubt he is being truthful about his 40 time and announcing it to the whole league. No way he would truthfully do that ??
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