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3rd Down against the Vikings

 
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 7046
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:22 am    Post subject: 3rd Down against the Vikings Reply with quote




3rd and 5

Packers in the 11, Vikings counter with their nickel.

Vikings come out with a pressure look with Harrison Smith at the line across from Quarless. Vikings move both of their ILBs into the A-gaps, Rodgers counters by motioning Quarless into the backfield so he has two blockers. As a consequence Harrison Smith moves down into a threatening position off the edge. That leaves 7 blockers to deal with 7 defenders.
Thereís clearly a single high safety so Adams and Nelson know theyíre on a fly/curl option. The perimeter corners for the Vikings do a fantastic job shutting both guys down.

With the single high, Cobb knows he isnít going to try and get vertical. The slot corner on him shows an outside technique, so Cobb runs a 15 yard in behind the linebackers. The linebackers get good depth so Cobb isnít really open in the brief moment he gets separation before the corner recovers.

On the snap, the linebackers in the A gaps backpedal out, so without a blocking responsibility, Quarless goes into his route. Itís a little stick route between the linebackers acting as a checkdown and he does get open even with the first down. Rodgers just missed him.

Lacy reads inside out, and when he sees the linebackers arenít coming, he checks Harrison Smith. When Smith backs out he slides over and attempts to chip on the right edge.

On the left side of the line, Sitton and Bakhtiari neatly take care of their guys. With both backers backed out, Linsley has no responsibility so he slides over and attempts to help on Sittonís guy.

Bulaga oversets a bit and the defensive end cuts inside of him, Bulaga rides him down the line enough for Rodgers to step out of the way but he still got beat.

Lang takes the defensive tackle way outside. Lacy whiffs on the chip but Lang doesnít need it.

The pressure from Bulagaís guy forces Rodgers to step up. I donít know why he doesnít see Quarless but he didnít and he forces it to Adams who is covered.

Summary:
Positive: Bakhtiari, Sitton, Lang, Quarless
Negative: Bulaga, Rodgers, Nelson, Cobb, Adams
No grade: Linsley, Lacy
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



3rd and 3

Packers come out in the 10, Vikings stick with the dime.

Vikings come out with 2 high safetyís meaning theyíre looking at a 6 man box. Because there isnít a corner over the inside most receiver, the LB on that side is moved out a bit more than typical.

The DT on the playside is playing the 1-tech, so thereís no one in the gap between Sitton and Bakhtiari. Thatís the area the Packers target successfully.

The setup for the play is a simple inside zone action. Everybody on the line steps right which causes the playside DT to step left so even though

Sitton throws a horrible downblock, space is created anyway. The playside DE doesnít step with the rest of the defensive line (Guys are used to dealing with the zone-read looks) which creates a crease that Lacy hits.

Linsley gets to the backside linebacker, Bakhtiari gets to the playside linebacker, Lang and Sitton both block down. None of the receivers really contribute.

Lacy gets the necessary yardage to move the chains

Summary:
Positive: Bakhtiari, Linsley, Lang, Bulaga, Lacy
Negative: Sitton
No grade: Boykin, Adams, Cobb, Nelson, Rodgers
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++



3rd and 1

Packers come out in the 11. Vikings come out in the nickel.
Vikings are showing a pressure package with Barr lined up outside the tackle, and four defensive lineman. They also move a safety down in the box threatening the blitz. This pretty much guarantees man to man coverage.

Quarless and Lacy are both in the backfield ready to block. I donít know if this was correct, but Quarless doesnít block the Safety blitzing on his side, instead he moves down and helps Linsley with the Nose. Lacy makes an awesome play to get across the formation and stop Rodgers from getting sacked. I think it was wrong and Lacy just made an incredible play, if that was the correct play, that needs to be reworked because itís awful protection design.

Bulaga and Taylor/Lang (not sure which) do a good job in isolation. Linsley and Quarless shut down the NT. Both Sitton and Bakhtiari give up more ground than you would like, but ultimately hold their ground.

Between the blitzing safety and the left side of the line caving a bit, Rodgers has to step up and make a bit of an awkward throw into tight coverage, still very on point.

With the single high, Cobb knows he isnít going to try and get vertical. The slot corner on him shows an outside technique, so Cobb runs a 15 yard in behind the linebacker. The slot corner stays right in his hip pocket the entire time.

Thereís clearly a single high safety so Adams and Nelson know theyíre on a fly/curl option. Nelson and Adams both hit the curl route. The perimeter corners for the Vikings do a good job. Though Rhodes arrived early and shouldíve been flagged for PI.

Summary:
Positive: Bulaga, Lang/Taylor, Lacy, Linsley, Rodgers
No grade: Bakhtiari, Sitton
Negative: Quarless, Nelson, Cobb, Adams
++++++++++++++++++++



3rd and 10

Packers come out in their 11, Vikings come out in their Nickel.
Thereís a safety hanging outside on the line of scrimmage and a Linebacker lined up in the A-gap showing blitz. Thereís 6 potential rushers and six blockers.

Pre-snap, the high safety moves towards the sideline letting us know weíre seeing Cover-2.

At the snap, the corner over Jordy bails out, and the Safety on that side of the line fills in underneath on the perimeter. The linebacker in the A-gap blitzes.

Lacy comes down and helps Linsley with the blitzing linebacker. Protection is rock solid across the board.

Jordy and Adams both run dead streaks to carry the Safeties out of the play. Quarless runs a short drag and Cobb runs a post over the top of him. Both inside targets see single coverage and both are covered very well.

Aaron Rodgers makes one of those throws that only he is capable of making, and Cobb catches it for a huge gain.

Summary:
Positive: Rodgers, Lacy, Bulaga, Bakhtiari, Lang, Sitton, Linsley, Cobb
Negative: Quarless
No Grade: Nelson, Adams
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



3rd and 10

Packers come out in their 11, Vikings come out in their Nickel.

Thereís a safety hanging outside on the line of scrimmage and two Linebackerzs lined up in the A-gaps showing blitz.

Single coverage on the outside, Jordy running a streak, Adams hits the curl, Cobb runs the standard deep in. Adams and Cobb both get locked up.

Fairly amusing occurrence on the outside, Richard Rodgers is bumping the DE to help Bulaga, the DE is bumping Rodgers to help his guy out in coverage. It amused me. Rodgers releases and runs a little banana route that the safety doesnít even bother guarding.
David Bakhtiari gets beat around the edge and grabs a hold, getting flagged for it. The rest of the line holds up fine.

The most impressive play on this one was by Eddie Lacy. With both linebackers in the A-gap, heís responsible for the one aligned to his side while Linsley has the other backer. Lacyís linebacker blitzed, but he didnít just blitz, he went first on a blitzing linebacker/DT stunt that got the DT free exactly how it was drawn up. Except that Eddie [inappropriate/removed] Lacy stood him up for a second for Linsley to slide over and lock it down. He may be the only back in the league with the size and smarts to make that play. Iíve never seen that done by a defense before, and Lacy picked it up like it was routine for him. For a guy who struggled blocking last year, his progress has been phenomenal.

Nelson gets open on this one, he gets a step on the corner though admittedly tiptoeing on the sideline and Rodgers is just a bit off with the placement so he canít stay in bounds. A perfect throw is a huge gain, but even a good throw is an incompletion and thatís what Rodgers gave him.

Summary:
Positives: Lacy, Sitton, Linsley, Bulaga, Lang, Dickrod, Nelson
Negatives: Cobb, Adams, Bakhtiari
No Grade: Rodgers
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



3rd and 29

Packers in their 11. Vikings in their Dime

Itís 3rd and 29, theyíre in a coverage package. With 3 guys within 10 yards of the LOS, we know that 8 are dropping and three are coming.
The route combos on this are pretty vanilla, Itís three verticals by the receivers and an extra deep in by the Tight End. Theyíre hoping for a blown coverage or a holding call, but itís not going to happen on 3rd and 29. So long as the Vikings stay disciplined in their zones and donít completely forget how to tackle, thereís no way we can convert. Initially there was a little bit of a mixup with one of their DBs spying Starks, I have no idea why, before he dropped back, but it was a window that was open for less than half a second and it probably wouldnít have yielded a first down anyway.

Against three guys the line did fine. The sack was on Rodgers who decided to break a clean pocket and scamper off to the left, then hold onto the ball so that the rush could get to him. Not that 4th and 31 is any different than 4th and 29 but itís the principal of the thing.

This play was lost on the previous downs, about the only other thing I didnít like about it was the use of Starks. They have 3 guys rushing, do we really need to keep a 6th blocker in? It makes a lot more sense to me to send Starks out on a little curl over the middle and dump it down to him if nothing is open deep. He wonít get the first down but he probably picks up 10-15 yards which puts the ST and Defense in a better spot for the next drive. Weíve used challenges on significantly less yardage. Obviously not a big deal, but it did irritate me a bit.

Summary:
Positives: Bakhtiari, Bulaga, Linsley
Negatives: Rodgers
No grade: Starks, Sitton, Lang, Nelson, Adams, Cobb, Quarless
_________________
the combined record of Brady, Manning, Montana, Marino, Elway, Favre, Young, Staubach, Jim Kelly, Phil Simms, Warren Moon, Troy Aikman, Ben Roethlisberger when their defenses have given up 37 or more points? It's 0-24.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 7046
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reserved for the next 5
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the combined record of Brady, Manning, Montana, Marino, Elway, Favre, Young, Staubach, Jim Kelly, Phil Simms, Warren Moon, Troy Aikman, Ben Roethlisberger when their defenses have given up 37 or more points? It's 0-24.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 7046
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TLDR thoughts:

- We ran the most boring route concepts on 3rd down in the history of the NFL. We ran more complex stuff in preseason. I'm not saying we kept the fun stuff under wraps this week, but we ran the same damn combination every time.

- Running the same damn stuff makes it tough for receivers to get open.

- Eddie Lacy is an incredible blocker. He made two highlight blocks that were outstanding and was rock solid on the others.

- Aaron Rodgers wasn't as on point as typical. He was still very good in some instances but there were other opportunities that slipped away. For any other QB I wouldn't even mention it, but we've seen him hit those before.

- Aaron Rodgers is excellent at getting his protections dialed up right. I wonder if that was a point of emphasis for him this offseason. It's either that or Corey Linsley is a prodigy.

- We help Linsley a lot. If he ever has a NT on him, we find someone to chip. I hope that goes away as he gets older. Typically want to chip to help out your tackles.

- McCarthy is alright. I took issue with three things (3rd and 1 pass, Quarless chipping on the NT, Starks not running a route on 3rd and 29) None of them were a big deal.
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the combined record of Brady, Manning, Montana, Marino, Elway, Favre, Young, Staubach, Jim Kelly, Phil Simms, Warren Moon, Troy Aikman, Ben Roethlisberger when their defenses have given up 37 or more points? It's 0-24.
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
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Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO that missed PI on Jordy when he got mugged was a big deal. Had they called the penalty there is a good chance we go down and score on that early drive and that changes the entire tenor of the game.
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DavidatMIZZOU


Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 10216
Location: The ZOU
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
TLDR thoughts:

- We ran the most boring route concepts on 3rd down in the history of the NFL. We ran more complex stuff in preseason. I'm not saying we kept the fun stuff under wraps this week, but we ran the same damn combination every time.

- Running the same damn stuff makes it tough for receivers to get open.

But then you say McCarthy is alright? These things are his call.

Do you think we were hiding stuff for later, or did the Vikings show some weakness to this type of formation in previous weeks that we didn't exploit quite like we thought we could?
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GO PACK GO!

mistakebytehlak wrote:

My god it must be so terrible to have three teams that consistently make the playoffs
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Stevein2012


Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Posts: 535
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that sideline throw to Jordy was a catch. Would have been negated by the penalty but it still would have helped us by giving a 3rd and 20 instead of it being 4th down.
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deathstar


Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 753
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't the first time we've run horribly boring route concepts on the road against a divisional opponent. With the Lions in week 3 we ran streak after streak after streak.

In my opinion it's a conscious effort on McCarthy's part.

There's this story of Greg Maddux pitching an almost no-hitter. He gets a particularly potent hitter in a 3-2 count. It's against an opponent Maddux knows they'll meet in the postseason. He throws a layup, the guy hits it, and Maddux doesn't get a no-hitter. He did this though, so that in the postseason he knows what the hitter's going to expect in that position.

I think that McCarthy purposely calls boring games sometimes against opponent's he's confident against to influence the film study of opponents like NE.

This is probably just me being crazy though.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 5902
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deathstar wrote:
This isn't the first time we've run horribly boring route concepts on the road against a divisional opponent. With the Lions in week 3 we ran streak after streak after streak.

In my opinion it's a conscious effort on McCarthy's part.

There's this story of Greg Maddux pitching an almost no-hitter. He gets a particularly potent hitter in a 3-2 count. It's against an opponent Maddux knows they'll meet in the postseason. He throws a layup, the guy hits it, and Maddux doesn't get a no-hitter. He did this though, so that in the postseason he knows what the hitter's going to expect in that position.

I think that McCarthy purposely calls boring games sometimes against opponent's he's confident against to influence the film study of opponents like NE.

This is probably just me being crazy though.


I believe it and have brought it up myself. Most people think you're a nut. I think he "saves" things for big spots too. He might hide a player or concept for when he thinks he 'really needs it'
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
- Aaron Rodgers is excellent at getting his protections dialed up right. I wonder if that was a point of emphasis for him this offseason. It's either that or Corey Linsley is a prodigy.


I think we all need to take a minute and realize how much Linsley has brought stabilization to the offensive line.
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Devlin


Joined: 03 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the split coverages the Vikes played were interesting. On both 3rd and 10's, the Vikes seem to be playing 2-man to the field and pure cover 2 to the boundary. On the first one it's probably to double Jordy, teams have been playing alot of cover 6 to double him this year. I love it, a bunch of our shot plays and long TD's have come against cover 2 looks. Thanks for the work you put in - great analysis.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devlin wrote:
Some of the split coverages the Vikes played were interesting. On both 3rd and 10's, the Vikes seem to be playing 2-man to the field and pure cover 2 to the boundary. On the first one it's probably to double Jordy, teams have been playing alot of cover 6 to double him this year. I love it, a bunch of our shot plays and long TD's have come against cover 2 looks. Thanks for the work you put in - great analysis.


Hey man, nice post, and welcome!

One thing I've taken away from the Vikings and Falcons game is that McCarthy wants to test these guys in their one on ones and play things vanilla schematically. Look at the Vikings game in terms of exploiting mismatches with that defense (there are many but we didn't target them) and the Patriots game in which we got their DE twice on wheel routes covering Cobb and Starks.

Come playoff time, I see McCarthy and Rodgers just lighting up the opposition. If we lose a playoff game this January/February, it won't be because Rodgers and the offense folded the way it did in Detroit this year. They've found their rhythm and it's terrifying.
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Bolstrikes wrote:
Ben makes his receivers a lot better then Rodgers does. I think Rodgers gets way more to work with and don't feel he's better then Ben. Rodgers gets better surrounding talent and a better system.
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Devlin


Joined: 03 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
Devlin wrote:
Some of the split coverages the Vikes played were interesting. On both 3rd and 10's, the Vikes seem to be playing 2-man to the field and pure cover 2 to the boundary. On the first one it's probably to double Jordy, teams have been playing alot of cover 6 to double him this year. I love it, a bunch of our shot plays and long TD's have come against cover 2 looks. Thanks for the work you put in - great analysis.


Hey man, nice post, and welcome!

One thing I've taken away from the Vikings and Falcons game is that McCarthy wants to test these guys in their one on ones and play things vanilla schematically. Look at the Vikings game in terms of exploiting mismatches with that defense (there are many but we didn't target them) and the Patriots game in which we got their DE twice on wheel routes covering Cobb and Starks.

Come playoff time, I see McCarthy and Rodgers just lighting up the opposition. If we lose a playoff game this January/February, it won't be because Rodgers and the offense folded the way it did in Detroit this year. They've found their rhythm and it's terrifying.


I think McCarthy proved you right about playing vanilla in the Pats game. He had stuck with 11 personnel (1 RB, 1 TE) to facilitate the no-huddle for most of the year, but in the past few games we've seen some new formations and personnel groups, especially vs. the Pats - Cobb in the backfield, Lacy split out wide, empty formations. He seems to be ramping it up as the season progresses, and I'm excited to see what he unveils in the playoffs.
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