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AG20 Classroom (Route Trees)
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 5430
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: AG20 Classroom (Route Trees) Reply with quote

Alright, we've lost Waldo and we've now lost Palmy. We all need to step up and make an effort more to contribute to intelligent football conversation. So, in this thread I'll be sharing what knowledge I have of the game of football. Post any questions and I'll do my best to answer.

Let's start out with the route tree, because there's been quite a bit of conversation about it in recent weeks.

The concept of a route tree started with Don Coryell. He's considered the father of the passing game. Whether he started the route tree concept at SDSU in the 60s, or with the St. Louis Cardinals in the mid 70s is occasionally disputed. Whichever, it completely shot the modern passing game forward. Instead of having to know a billion plays, receivers only had to listen for the number of the route they were supposed to run. So long as you could memorize ten numbers and the corresponding route, you could be plug and play. In Coryell's day, the slot receiver wasn't in existence so the inside routes were only used for TEs.



1=Quick out
2=Slant
3=Deep out
4=Deep in
5=Comeback
6=Hitch
7=Corner
8=Post
9=Streak
20=Drag
60=Settle
90=Seam
80=Skinny Post

In today's NFL, there have been a few changes, there's a short hitch from the outside, and the 10 route is typically more shallow. The emergence of the slot receivers caused the emergence of a hybrid tree to sprout, but those are the basics of the NFL route tree.

Certain offenses rely on certain routes more than they do others. A West coast offense relies more on slants, hitches and shorter routes, where as more traditional down field offenses want to get the ball vertical. Every offense is a hybrid in 2014 but how much an offense takes from each school tends to define it's label. McCarthy has been labelled a West Coast coach, but he hasn't really been a West Coast guy since he signed on with the Packers. He's adjusted his offense with his quarterback.

Every offense in the league now is running options routes, meaning that based on the coverage shown the receiver will run a different route. If a receiver has a streak called, and he and the QB both read cover-2, often times it's the responsibility for the receiver to change his route to a post. The QB and the WR both have to recognize this and make the right choice without communicating with each other.

When you consider most reads are made in 2014 in the first second AFTER the snap and the ball should be out in 2.5 seconds, you can see the importance of having good chemistry between QB and WR. They have to be on the right page. If you want to see a QB not on the right page with his WRs, watch Eli Manning in 2013 or watch Tony Romo trying to throw to Dez Bryant in 2012. It's painful.

Davante Adams coming out of college really only ran: short curls (4 yards), deep curls (10-12 yards), slants, drags, fades, bubbles, and streaks. There's almost no ins, outs, arrows, posts, corner, or sluggo (stop and go, some call it a double move) routes. This isn't too concerning as our boundary receivers typically don't run outs, arrows, or corner routes and we only really run a 10 yard in sparingly.

Adams is going to have to pick up the post and sluggo before the season starts, but the sluggo is about selling the fake more than it is about making sharp cuts and the post is about figuring out the correct angle to break at, something the coaches should have taught him in a matter of weeks. It's unlikely that he'll catch any reps in the slot as a rookie, so that is a set of routes he'll be able to pick up next off season if the staff even decides they want him to learn it.

Here's an example I pulled:





I didn't do a good job with the gif capture, but when Rodgers gets to the line you see a defense showing a Cover-2 look with both CBs on the line of scrimmage and both safeties back. Rodgers gives a hard count which had the boundary CBs backing up a bit showing either a cover-3 or 4 indicating that the curl route should be open. Jones sees it too and they run it without any sort of communication, they just see the same thing and know what to do.

Cobb and Finley both see it, each running a seam and Jordy catches it on the back end running the comeback. One hard count gives away the coverage and it gets sliced up, welcome to the NFL in 2014. This isn't actually a good play showing a diverse route tree, but it shows how the coverage dictates the route in an extremely clean manner.
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AaronCharles wrote:
I have to say, I see no way we don't start 1-4, with our schedule.
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SE500


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 523
Location: WISCONSIN
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't know we lost Palmy, maybe we should have a goodbye thread. I don't understand why people leave, if they're busy just check in when you can. One thing is for sure, Waldo has been missed. Same will be for Palmy.
As it would be if you left, along with a few others.

Great thread, no questions for now. Seems to me being able to read with your QB is the ultimate key here, patterns as they are should be easily learned and mastered by players at this level.
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packerjmf


Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 1653
Location: KC
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work AG, threads like this remind me why I've continued to lurk on the forum for so long. Do you ever imagine the staff wanting Adams to learn the slot? Maybe I'm way off base here, but of our projected top 5 WRs right now (if you put Abby at #5), it seems like Cobb, Abby, and Nelson are all more likely/better suited to playing inside.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 5430
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

packerjmf wrote:
Nice work AG, threads like this remind me why I've continued to lurk on the forum for so long. Do you ever imagine the staff wanting Adams to learn the slot? Maybe I'm way off base here, but of our projected top 5 WRs right now (if you put Abby at #5), it seems like Cobb, Abby, and Nelson are all more likely/better suited to playing inside.


I think there's a very good chance Adams learns the slot next offseason.
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AaronCharles wrote:
I have to say, I see no way we don't start 1-4, with our schedule.
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CalhounLambeau


Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1409
Location: WI
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SE500 wrote:
Didn't know we lost Palmy, maybe we should have a goodbye thread. I don't understand why people leave, if they're busy just check in when you can..


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=381982&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


-----

Anyway, great thread AG.


Last edited by CalhounLambeau on Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joyride15


Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 718
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appreciate the efforts AG20... have really enjoyed reading your contributions to the forum.

Although the play didn't go his direction, It looks like Cobb had a favorable matchup on a LB, once read cover 3 or 4, maybe this was apparent? Was Jones the #1 option on the play? Further more, a what determines the order of the QB's progressions? A mix of matchups/read of coverage?
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Jsitton71#


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Waldo Wink
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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We seem to love Poker and COP routes off play action I've noticed, those two seem to be the go to for Jordy. You hardly ever see him run just a simply 9
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stockholder


Joined: 25 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:43 am    Post subject: route trees Reply with quote

During The Route

The biggest thing we look for is ... speed. Speed kills. It's the easiest way to get separation. Speed is what allows the wide receiver to turn a 10-yard crossing route into a 50-yard touchdown. I look for acceleration at the beginning of the route, maintained speed throughout the rest of the route. Each route has a break or "stem." You'll see virtually no slowing down on post or corner routes by good wide receivers, and relatively minimal deceleration on digs or out routes.
We also often talk about wide receivers being able to run the full route tree. The route tree is different for both slot receivers and outside receivers. A wide receiver who can run the full route tree needs to know how far he needs to go before going into his break. He needs to show that smooth acceleration through the beginning of the route, and if he's running the top half of the route, he needs a smooth transition. If he's running the bottom half, like a comeback or curl route, he needs to be precise and take minimal extra steps. Each extra step needed to retain balance is extra time given to the defender to catch up.

Receivers often add a little bit of spice along their routes, usually a double move or a subtle fake here and there. Seeing that out of a college prospect is nothing but a plus.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 3685
Location: Evanston, IL
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:50 am    Post subject: Re: route trees Reply with quote

stockholder wrote:
During The Route

The biggest thing we look for is ... speed. Speed kills. It's the easiest way to get separation. Speed is what allows the wide receiver to turn a 10-yard crossing route into a 50-yard touchdown. I look for acceleration at the beginning of the route, maintained speed throughout the rest of the route. Each route has a break or "stem." You'll see virtually no slowing down on post or corner routes by good wide receivers, and relatively minimal deceleration on digs or out routes.
We also often talk about wide receivers being able to run the full route tree. The route tree is different for both slot receivers and outside receivers. A wide receiver who can run the full route tree needs to know how far he needs to go before going into his break. He needs to show that smooth acceleration through the beginning of the route, and if he's running the top half of the route, he needs a smooth transition. If he's running the bottom half, like a comeback or curl route, he needs to be precise and take minimal extra steps. Each extra step needed to retain balance is extra time given to the defender to catch up.

Receivers often add a little bit of spice along their routes, usually a double move or a subtle fake here and there. Seeing that out of a college prospect is nothing but a plus.


This is also a violation of the forum's policies:
http://www.bigblueview.com/2014/4/25/5523510/2014-nfl-draftdavante-adams-fresno-state-2014-prospect-scouting-ny-giants

Definitely banable.
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Simian07:
Quote:
I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
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stockholder


Joined: 25 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:32 am    Post subject: Re: route trees Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
stockholder wrote:
During The Route

The biggest thing we look for is ... speed. Speed kills. It's the easiest way to get separation. Speed is what allows the wide receiver to turn a 10-yard crossing route into a 50-yard touchdown. I look for acceleration at the beginning of the route, maintained speed throughout the rest of the route. Each route has a break or "stem." You'll see virtually no slowing down on post or corner routes by good wide receivers, and relatively minimal deceleration on digs or out routes.
We also often talk about wide receivers being able to run the full route tree. The route tree is different for both slot receivers and outside receivers. A wide receiver who can run the full route tree needs to know how far he needs to go before going into his break. He needs to show that smooth acceleration through the beginning of the route, and if he's running the top half of the route, he needs a smooth transition. If he's running the bottom half, like a comeback or curl route, he needs to be precise and take minimal extra steps. Each extra step needed to retain balance is extra time given to the defender to catch up.

Receivers often add a little bit of spice along their routes, usually a double move or a subtle fake here and there. Seeing that out of a college prospect is nothing but a plus.


This is also a violation of the forum's policies:
http://www.bigblueview.com/2014/4/25/5523510/2014-nfl-draftdavante-adams-fresno-state-2014-prospect-scouting-ny-giants

Definitely banable.
Good search! I'm giving you a higher score on the wonderlic test. Read it! Notice the tree has more than whats posted. This scout really did praise Adams. Now find Latimers. One problem with doing cut and paste, the pictures don't always come up! But its the content of speed, to run the tree. Lets get the pads On!
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 5430
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: route trees Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
stockholder wrote:
During The Route

The biggest thing we look for is ... speed. Speed kills. It's the easiest way to get separation. Speed is what allows the wide receiver to turn a 10-yard crossing route into a 50-yard touchdown. I look for acceleration at the beginning of the route, maintained speed throughout the rest of the route. Each route has a break or "stem." You'll see virtually no slowing down on post or corner routes by good wide receivers, and relatively minimal deceleration on digs or out routes.
We also often talk about wide receivers being able to run the full route tree. The route tree is different for both slot receivers and outside receivers. A wide receiver who can run the full route tree needs to know how far he needs to go before going into his break. He needs to show that smooth acceleration through the beginning of the route, and if he's running the top half of the route, he needs a smooth transition. If he's running the bottom half, like a comeback or curl route, he needs to be precise and take minimal extra steps. Each extra step needed to retain balance is extra time given to the defender to catch up.

Receivers often add a little bit of spice along their routes, usually a double move or a subtle fake here and there. Seeing that out of a college prospect is nothing but a plus.


This is also a violation of the forum's policies:
http://www.bigblueview.com/2014/4/25/5523510/2014-nfl-draftdavante-adams-fresno-state-2014-prospect-scouting-ny-giants

Definitely banable.


Seriously, can we get a plagiarism warning?
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I have to say, I see no way we don't start 1-4, with our schedule.
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Packerraymond


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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: UW Oshkosh
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: route trees Reply with quote

stockholder wrote:
During The Route

The biggest thing we look for is ... speed. Speed kills. It's the easiest way to get separation. Speed is what allows the wide receiver to turn a 10-yard crossing route into a 50-yard touchdown. I look for acceleration at the beginning of the route, maintained speed throughout the rest of the route. Each route has a break or "stem." You'll see virtually no slowing down on post or corner routes by good wide receivers, and relatively minimal deceleration on digs or out routes.
We also often talk about wide receivers being able to run the full route tree. The route tree is different for both slot receivers and outside receivers. A wide receiver who can run the full route tree needs to know how far he needs to go before going into his break. He needs to show that smooth acceleration through the beginning of the route, and if he's running the top half of the route, he needs a smooth transition. If he's running the bottom half, like a comeback or curl route, he needs to be precise and take minimal extra steps. Each extra step needed to retain balance is extra time given to the defender to catch up.

Receivers often add a little bit of spice along their routes, usually a double move or a subtle fake here and there. Seeing that out of a college prospect is nothing but a plus.


When you quote a site, put the link in your post. Stealing others work isn't allowed here or anywhere.

Unless this is your own, cause it's pretty bad. Speed is not the most important aspect of route running. A stem is not the break of a route, your stem is part of your first steps to gain leverage on the DB.
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 1984
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason, some people forget about an ability to "change speeds". Quick acceleration/deceleration into and out of breaks, setting up the DB is a important measure of success. something along the lines of a 3-cone, short shuttle might be important.

Food for thought.

Edit:
Good stuff AG20, thanks for taking the time to post this. Funny how those numbering/concepts have not changed drastically in the last 25+ years.
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pgwingman


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Posts: 191
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks AG20. I'm looking forward to seeing these throughout the summer in order to enhance my football IQ
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