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A Vikings Fan's Perspective on the Lions Draft
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wcblack34


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7108
Location: Anywhere but Wisconsin.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:15 pm    Post subject: A Vikings Fan's Perspective on the Lions Draft Reply with quote

I think something like this would be excellent for you.

Trade #2 Overall to Tampa Bay for #4 overall, #36 overall, and Simeon Rice or Ronde Barber (Rice and Barber have seen better days, but they're certainly an upgrade over what you have, Marinelli is familiar with them both as well).

Oakland - Quinn
Tampa - Calvin Johnson
Cleveland - Adrian Peterson
(Detroit - trades #4 overall to Washington for #6 overall and 3rd rounder.)
Washington - Allan Branch
Arizona - Joe Thomas

Detroit at #6 would take either - Laron Landry - Gaines Adams - Leon Hall
With your first 2nd round pick - Troy Smith
With your second 2nd round pick - Joe Staley (OT/G-Central Michagan)
With your first 3rd round pick - Martrez Milner (TE - Georgia)
With your second 3rd round pick - Kenny Scott (CB - Georgia Tech)

With your other picks, just take some developmental high risk/reward type guys. A guy like Marcus Thomas from Florida has a ton of talent, but got kicked off the team, so he could drop to the fourth. Teaming him with Shaun Rogers would be great, especially if you got Simeon Rice or Gaines Adams.

Let me know what you think.
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LionsRoar17


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really doubt that Tampa Bay does that trade
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wcblack34


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends how badly Gruden wants Calvin. The 2nd rounder isn't quite enough to get them up to #2 and it's very likely that either Rice or Barber (possibly both) may be cut due to cap considerations. Marinelli worked under Gruden, and coached that defense. If you're going to cut someone, why not trade them and get something in return. I'd say it's more likely that Millen won't make that trade.
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oostorm


Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 342
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: A Vikings Fan's Perspective on the Lions Draft Reply with quote

wcblack34 wrote:
I think something like this would be excellent for you.

Trade #2 Overall to Tampa Bay for #4 overall, #36 overall, and Simeon Rice or Ronde Barber (Rice and Barber have seen better days, but they're certainly an upgrade over what you have, Marinelli is familiar with them both as well).

Oakland - Quinn
Tampa - Calvin Johnson
Cleveland - Adrian Peterson
(Detroit - trades #4 overall to Washington for #6 overall and 3rd rounder.)
Washington - Allan Branch
Arizona - Joe Thomas

Detroit at #6 would take either - Laron Landry - Gaines Adams - Leon Hall
With your first 2nd round pick - Troy Smith
With your second 2nd round pick - Joe Staley (OT/G-Central Michagan)
With your first 3rd round pick - Martrez Milner (TE - Georgia)
With your second 3rd round pick - Kenny Scott (CB - Georgia Tech)

With your other picks, just take some developmental high risk/reward type guys. A guy like Marcus Thomas from Florida has a ton of talent, but got kicked off the team, so he could drop to the fourth. Teaming him with Shaun Rogers would be great, especially if you got Simeon Rice or Gaines Adams.

Let me know what you think.


Barber I believe recently signed a huge extension
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WCLF


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will everybody please stop suggesting we draft Troy Smith? We already have two QB's holding clipboards on this team, we don't need another one. He is garbage, nothing but hype.
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WCLF


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: A Vikings Fan's Perspective on the Lions Draft Reply with quote

wcblack34 wrote:
I think something like this would be excellent for you.

Trade #2 Overall to Tampa Bay for #4 overall, #36 overall, and Simeon Rice or Ronde Barber (Rice and Barber have seen better days, but they're certainly an upgrade over what you have, Marinelli is familiar with them both as well).

Oakland - Quinn
Tampa - Calvin Johnson
Cleveland - Adrian Peterson
(Detroit - trades #4 overall to Washington for #6 overall and 3rd rounder.)
Washington - Allan Branch
Arizona - Joe Thomas

Detroit at #6 would take either - Laron Landry - Gaines Adams - Leon Hall
With your first 2nd round pick - Troy Smith
With your second 2nd round pick - Joe Staley (OT/G-Central Michagan)
With your first 3rd round pick - Martrez Milner (TE - Georgia)
With your second 3rd round pick - Kenny Scott (CB - Georgia Tech)

With your other picks, just take some developmental high risk/reward type guys. A guy like Marcus Thomas from Florida has a ton of talent, but got kicked off the team, so he could drop to the fourth. Teaming him with Shaun Rogers would be great, especially if you got Simeon Rice or Gaines Adams.

Let me know what you think.


Why would they draft Staley? He would do nothing but ride the bench. They have a LT and neither Backus or Staley can play RT, neither is strong enough. They would be better off grabbing the best OG in the 2nd round.
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Dionosys


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 1169
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see the Lions trading back, and I like what you're looking at, but I'm not sure they'll trade with TB. They won't offer a lot. Especially if Barry leaves TB to become Def. Coordinator in Detroit. More than likely, teams interested in Joe Thomas will be calling about the #2 spot. AZ, Cleveland, Houston.

Now Calvin Johnson is intriuging but tampa isn't in dire need of a WR. I see them eyeing Gaines Adams or Alan Branch. D-Line suits them more.

Obviously, Houston is picking #8 and detroit would have to recieve a heck of an offer to move back 6 slots, but say the #8 a 1st in 2008 and a 3rd this year would most likely be enough. If Gaines Adams slides that far it's a tough choice, but I think a team like SF would try to move up to 8 to grab him so add in the #11 and a 2nd rounder this year.

If that were to play out, which teams moving back twice is very unlikely in the NFL due to not trying to press their luck, but to humor myself, i'll say it happens.

#11 Patrick Willis, LB, Ole Miss If he could put on a little bulk, he would answer out MLB problems. Made a great move with Ernie Sims last year now they just need to continue their good work and shore up the middle.

2nd round pick #2, Ray McDonald, DE-DT, Florida

2nd round pick #11, Joe Staley OT/G I love this pick you made. He's not ready for this year, but he'll prolly start and get some game experience. Would be huge pickup.

3rd round pick #2, Aaron Ross CB 6'1 192 Texas An athletic corner who also can help out as a return man.

3rd round pick #8 Johnnie Lee Higgins | WR UTEP REC 82 | YDS 1,319 | TD 13 just a good production guy.

I also agree with your assessment for the day 2 picks, go with BPA but stay away from guys with character issues and guys who were kicked off of teams. I whole heartidly agree with joe staley from CMU. Troy Smith will be gone by the 2nd round. he's a proven winner, small or not, the guy just wins football games.
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wcblack34


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7108
Location: Anywhere but Wisconsin.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: A Vikings Fan's Perspective on the Lions Draft Reply with quote

WCLF wrote:
wcblack34 wrote:
I think something like this would be excellent for you.

Trade #2 Overall to Tampa Bay for #4 overall, #36 overall, and Simeon Rice or Ronde Barber (Rice and Barber have seen better days, but they're certainly an upgrade over what you have, Marinelli is familiar with them both as well).

Oakland - Quinn
Tampa - Calvin Johnson
Cleveland - Adrian Peterson
(Detroit - trades #4 overall to Washington for #6 overall and 3rd rounder.)
Washington - Allan Branch
Arizona - Joe Thomas

Detroit at #6 would take either - Laron Landry - Gaines Adams - Leon Hall
With your first 2nd round pick - Troy Smith
With your second 2nd round pick - Joe Staley (OT/G-Central Michagan)
With your first 3rd round pick - Martrez Milner (TE - Georgia)
With your second 3rd round pick - Kenny Scott (CB - Georgia Tech)

With your other picks, just take some developmental high risk/reward type guys. A guy like Marcus Thomas from Florida has a ton of talent, but got kicked off the team, so he could drop to the fourth. Teaming him with Shaun Rogers would be great, especially if you got Simeon Rice or Gaines Adams.

Let me know what you think.


Why would they draft Staley? He would do nothing but ride the bench. They have a LT and neither Backus or Staley can play RT, neither is strong enough. They would be better off grabbing the best OG in the 2nd round.


Why draft Staley? How about because he has about as much upside as any lineman entering the draft? How about the fact that he can play virtually any position on the line? How about the fact that he is pretty much the most athletic lineman in the draft? How about the fact that he's only getting better? His inexperience at the spot will cause him to drop to the late first or early second, but make no mistake about it, teams will be looking long and hard at him. He has solid technique for a guy who is still learning the position, and his feet are elite. Staley can play guard as well. He'd be far more athletic than any guard in the draft. He'd have to add some muscle, but he'd be great pulling in front of Kevin Jones.

Dionosys, I agree that Tampa isn't in dire need of a WR, but Gruden is an offensive guy at heart. D-Line is certainly a more pressing need, but we saw how he built Oakland in his mold, and he's been trying to do that in Tampa, hence the Defense being dismantled and overhauled. There's a lot of decent D-Line talent in the later rounds, but only one Calvin Johnson. Plus, they're really the only team I see moving up to your neck of the woods. Teams aren't going to give up future first rounders for a shot at Thomas. That's reserved for the QB's. Can't think of a single team that's moved into the Top 3 to take a lineman.

Now I don't think much or any of this will happen, but if there is a team that can afford to trade back 2 or even 3 times, it's the Lions. If you stay within the top 12, there will be big time players available to help you out. Quentin Moses, Darrel Revis, maybe Laron Landry, Patrick Willis, Amobi Okoye etc. Hopefully Mangina looks at this as an opportunity to stockpile talent as opposed to just getting one guy.
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qball8001


Joined: 22 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your idea, but Smith most likely will not fall to the second round.

Nextly THe point values do not add up in the trades.
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wcblack34


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

qball8001 wrote:
I like your idea, but Smith most likely will not fall to the second round.

Nextly THe point values do not add up in the trades.


The #2 overall pick is worth 2,600 points. Tampa's #4 and 2nd rounder equate to 2,340. I think Simeon Rice would make up the difference. Or if it took a 3rd or 4th rounder next year, i'm sure the Bucs would pony up if they decided CJ was their guy.

The 1800 point #4 would go to the Skins for #6 and #70 which equals 1,840 which would be close enough methinks. Maybe you'd give up a 7th or they'd throw in Archuleta...yuck, but something could be worked out in the end.

That's why this is all speculation anyway. I really don't think Smith will make it into the first round. Just think the hype will swing someone elses way at the combine. Perhaps after the National Championship Game if he plays poorly. There are too many "ifs" about him at this point. I think he could make a fine NFL QB, but teams will likely be hesitant to take him with a first round pick.
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WCLF


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: A Vikings Fan's Perspective on the Lions Draft Reply with quote

wcblack34 wrote:
WCLF wrote:
wcblack34 wrote:
I think something like this would be excellent for you.

Trade #2 Overall to Tampa Bay for #4 overall, #36 overall, and Simeon Rice or Ronde Barber (Rice and Barber have seen better days, but they're certainly an upgrade over what you have, Marinelli is familiar with them both as well).

Oakland - Quinn
Tampa - Calvin Johnson
Cleveland - Adrian Peterson
(Detroit - trades #4 overall to Washington for #6 overall and 3rd rounder.)
Washington - Allan Branch
Arizona - Joe Thomas

Detroit at #6 would take either - Laron Landry - Gaines Adams - Leon Hall
With your first 2nd round pick - Troy Smith
With your second 2nd round pick - Joe Staley (OT/G-Central Michagan)
With your first 3rd round pick - Martrez Milner (TE - Georgia)
With your second 3rd round pick - Kenny Scott (CB - Georgia Tech)

With your other picks, just take some developmental high risk/reward type guys. A guy like Marcus Thomas from Florida has a ton of talent, but got kicked off the team, so he could drop to the fourth. Teaming him with Shaun Rogers would be great, especially if you got Simeon Rice or Gaines Adams.

Let me know what you think.


Why would they draft Staley? He would do nothing but ride the bench. They have a LT and neither Backus or Staley can play RT, neither is strong enough. They would be better off grabbing the best OG in the 2nd round.


Why draft Staley? How about because he has about as much upside as any lineman entering the draft? How about the fact that he can play virtually any position on the line? How about the fact that he is pretty much the most athletic lineman in the draft? How about the fact that he's only getting better? His inexperience at the spot will cause him to drop to the late first or early second, but make no mistake about it, teams will be looking long and hard at him. He has solid technique for a guy who is still learning the position, and his feet are elite. Staley can play guard as well. He'd be far more athletic than any guard in the draft. He'd have to add some muscle, but he'd be great pulling in front of Kevin Jones.


I understand all of that but the fact is the Lions have their LT so all he would do is be a backup. He can't play RT and no he can't play OG. Backus is the same way. Neither of them is strong enough to play that side. You need a mauler over there not an athletic OT. That would be like the Saints drafting another RB just because he has great upside. Even though Backus isn't a great LT he is still the LT that will be the starter for at least the next 3 or 4 years. The would be much better going with a buy like Grubbs who can actually play OG.

Staley would be better off in an offense like Atlanta were he can use that athletic ability.
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WCLF


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

qball8001 wrote:
I like your idea, but Smith most likely will not fall to the second round.

Nextly THe point values do not add up in the trades.


Smith will be lucky to go in the 2nd round. Once he works out teams will realize he isn't very good. Honestly I will be surprised if he even goes on day one.
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LionsRoar17


Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 2340
Location: Southern Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WCLF wrote:
qball8001 wrote:
I like your idea, but Smith most likely will not fall to the second round.

Nextly THe point values do not add up in the trades.


Smith will be lucky to go in the 2nd round. Once he works out teams will realize he isn't very good. Honestly I will be surprised if he even goes on day one.

Just because he's short doesnt take away all that hes done. Look at what he's done this year...Theres no way he should fall out of day 1 just because he is only 6 foot.
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WCLF


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsRoar17 wrote:
WCLF wrote:
qball8001 wrote:
I like your idea, but Smith most likely will not fall to the second round.

Nextly THe point values do not add up in the trades.


Smith will be lucky to go in the 2nd round. Once he works out teams will realize he isn't very good. Honestly I will be surprised if he even goes on day one.

Just because he's short doesnt take away all that hes done. Look at what he's done this year...Theres no way he should fall out of day 1 just because he is only 6 foot.


He also has a very long and slow delivery, poor mechanics, and not nearly as fast as people think he is. He is a terrible prospect and if a team drafts him on day one it will be on hype alone.
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qball8001


Joined: 22 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WCLF wrote:
LionsRoar17 wrote:
WCLF wrote:
qball8001 wrote:
I like your idea, but Smith most likely will not fall to the second round.

Nextly THe point values do not add up in the trades.


Smith will be lucky to go in the 2nd round. Once he works out teams will realize he isn't very good. Honestly I will be surprised if he even goes on day one.

Just because he's short doesnt take away all that hes done. Look at what he's done this year...Theres no way he should fall out of day 1 just because he is only 6 foot.


He also has a very long and slow delivery, poor mechanics, and not nearly as fast as people think he is. He is a terrible prospect and if a team drafts him on day one it will be on hype alone.


who won the Hiesman?

He does not have bad mechanics. The only knock on him is his size. He has a cannon for an arm. He is quick. He has great pocket presence, and he can handle playing in the big game. He has beating Michigan THREE straight times.
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