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If you were Millen who would u pick
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Barry Sanders


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 5213
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WCLF wrote:
Barry Sanders wrote:
WCLF wrote:
Barry Sanders wrote:
Joe Thomas is on the same level as D'brickashaw, and he can step out right away. Joe Thomas is a better all around prospect then D'brickashaw, He's not as good in pass blocking but much better in run blocking.


Are you serious? You just lost all credibility with me. D'Brickashaw is a franchise type LT, Joe Thomas is not.

Quote:
Gaines Adams is actually not one dimensional, hes a excellent pass rusher, but he's not a libaility in run stopping. He might need to add some weight but he's not that bad in the run game.


Every player review I have read on him says just that, he is a liability in against the run.

Quote:
I'm looking at in Millen's perspective, do you really think Millen can draft another WR in his mind? no he can't.


I agree he can't draft another WR but if he needs to win now that would be the player he would need. He will have the biggest impact the fastest. Now if he is going to build for the future, and that is the way he needs to think, he will take Brady Quinn. Quinn is the best player at the top of this draft to build a team around. Not Joe Thomas and definitely not Gaines Adams.

Quote:
and you are wrong about a WR being able to step in right away. Most WR's take 3 years to develop. Every position you draft will take time to develop, and this draft has 3 players have abilty to start right away Quinn, Thomas, Johnson.


Charles Rogers was playing very well his rookie year until he got hurt. Roy Williams was playing out of his mind and probably would have been OROY had he not messed up his ankle against the Falcons. Michael Clayton in Tampa Bay made an immediate impact, yes he sucks now but his rookie year he was very good. I can keep going if you would like.

Some WR's do take time but over the course of time in the NFL WR and RB have been two positions that have been able to contribute from day one. OT's and QB are generally position that take time to develop. So if Matt Millen needs to win now he is not going to take Brady Quinn and he definitely isn't going to take Joe Thomas.


Ok... How is Joe Thomas not a franchise LT? I want to hear proven facts that he's not better then D'brickashaw Fergason. Normally i'm a friendly poster and don't call people out on what they know, but have you watched Thomas play enough to get a fiar judgement on his skills or are you going off what you heard over the internet. Joe Thomas is a "franchise calibre" LT, and he's going to be put on the same level as B'rickashaw was last year.

I can name about the same amount of LT's in this draft that contributed in this years draft that you just did WR's. Joe Thomas is the kind of player who can step in right away and play at a high level.


Yes sir I did watch Thomas a lot this year. He was good but I don't see anything special in him. He is nothing close to D'Brickashaw.


you have no reason's to back that up? I'm done with this argument.
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Bucky


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 14369
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think D'Brick and McNeil are the only two LT's from last years draft that played a major role for their teams.
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Barry Sanders


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 5213
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bucky wrote:
I think D'Brick and McNeil are the only two LT's from last years draft that played a major role for their teams.


He only named 3 WR's and 2 of them are not even starters on a team. I was getting to that as the point.
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Go Lions???


Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 758
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WCLF wrote:
Barry Sanders wrote:
Joe Thomas is on the same level as D'brickashaw, and he can step out right away. Joe Thomas is a better all around prospect then D'brickashaw, He's not as good in pass blocking but much better in run blocking.


Are you serious? You just lost all credibility with me. D'Brickashaw is a franchise type LT, Joe Thomas is not.

You must be kidding. Why is Thomas not a franchise LT? Every scouting report I have seen says he's a franchise LT. If he wasn't that caliber player, why does every draft site have him as the best OT and a top three overall prospect? What are his flaws?

Right now his all around game is BETTER than D'Bricks was last year. I don't care what you say. D'Brick is the better pass protector but Thomas is not far behind at all. At the same time Thomas is a very good run blocker with D'Brick pretty far behind.

You also keep saying Backus can't play RT. Early in his career he was playing the right side. AND the lions are running Martz's offence which likes to pass more than run, so both tackles need to be better pass protectors than run blockers. Backus is probably a better fit at RT than he is at LT.

BUT, I personaly don't think the lions should draft Joe T. I like what I have seen out of Jon Scott and I think he and Backus can be a solid (not spectacular) OT duo. Only draft Thomas if there is no trade down opportunity.
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WCLF


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D'Brickashaw has the potential to be a on pace with guys like Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Johnathen Ogden. Joe Thomas will be a mid level guy but not that franchise LT like Ferguson will be.
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WCLF


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go Lions??? wrote:
WCLF wrote:
Barry Sanders wrote:
Joe Thomas is on the same level as D'brickashaw, and he can step out right away. Joe Thomas is a better all around prospect then D'brickashaw, He's not as good in pass blocking but much better in run blocking.


Are you serious? You just lost all credibility with me. D'Brickashaw is a franchise type LT, Joe Thomas is not.

You must be kidding. Why is Thomas not a franchise LT? Every scouting report I have seen says he's a franchise LT. If he wasn't that caliber player, why does every draft site have him as the best OT and a top three overall prospect? What are his flaws?

You also keep saying Backus can't play RT. Early in his career he was playing the right side. AND the lions are running Martz's offence which likes to pass more than run, so both tackles need to be better pass protectors than run blockers. Backus is probably a better fit at RT than he is at LT.


It is a weak draft that is why he is a top player, especially at the LT position.

I would actually love to see them switch Backus to RT so everybody can finally see he can't play the position and we can stop talking about. I have been hearing about it since we drafted him and frankly I am tired of listening to it.
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Barry Sanders


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 5213
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WCLF wrote:
Go Lions??? wrote:
WCLF wrote:
Barry Sanders wrote:
Joe Thomas is on the same level as D'brickashaw, and he can step out right away. Joe Thomas is a better all around prospect then D'brickashaw, He's not as good in pass blocking but much better in run blocking.


Are you serious? You just lost all credibility with me. D'Brickashaw is a franchise type LT, Joe Thomas is not.

You must be kidding. Why is Thomas not a franchise LT? Every scouting report I have seen says he's a franchise LT. If he wasn't that caliber player, why does every draft site have him as the best OT and a top three overall prospect? What are his flaws?

You also keep saying Backus can't play RT. Early in his career he was playing the right side. AND the lions are running Martz's offence which likes to pass more than run, so both tackles need to be better pass protectors than run blockers. Backus is probably a better fit at RT than he is at LT.


It is a weak draft that is why he is a top player, especially at the LT position.

I would actually love to see them switch Backus to RT so everybody can finally see he can't play the position and we can stop talking about. I have been hearing about it since we drafted him and frankly I am tired of listening to it.


I don't think you know much about Joe Thomas, I don't even like saying that about someone, but you have no points to prove anything.

I think if he you posted who was the better prospect D'brick or Thomas, it would be a very close pole. He's on the same level as D'brick not on the same as Pace or Ogden that is true. Saying he isn't a franchise tackle is just idiotic, he's going to be a franchise LT there is no dought in my mind.
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Michiganman


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 201
Location: Grand Rapids
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would do everything in my power to trade down and take either Willis Ole Miss or Landry LSU in the first. If I got Landry LSU I would have to take Buster Davis FSU in the 2nd. I would try and get Simeon Rice from TB. The rest of my offseason and/or draft would be finding some O-line talent with priority being on RT. Besides players I would beg and plead Martz to stay as the OC offering to get whoever he wants for his offense (I heard some rumors on Faulk coming to stand in for KJ...) This would be my offseason as GM and then I would cross my fingers for my first 7-9 season hoping the offense becomes more efficient and effective and my young defense becomes solid and unstoppable.
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LionsFan#1Pick


Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 1348
Location: Central Michigan University
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of you are seriously underrating Joe Thomas. Joe Thomas is a franchise left tackle. He is huge (6'8", 310), has excellent technique, is athletic for his size, quick enough to stay in front fo all DEs, and is an excellent run/pass blocker.

Ferguson is fairly one dimensional. He is a gifted pass blocker, but still lacks the ferociousness and technique to be a successful run blocker. Now, Brick is probably better suited for this team as this is definately a pass-happy offense, but thats a different story. Plus, he's a physcial specimen.

Now, there are knocks against Thomas, but you haven't brought up any of the legitimate ones. He has a reconstructed knee and he comes from a long line of busts at Wisconsin. The knee is worrisome, but you can't compare players because of past busts. That'd be like saying, "The Bengals and Cardinals shouldn't have taken Palmer or Leinart because Todd Marinovich was a bust."
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qball8001


Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 7934
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roy 11 Williams Shrink your avatar.

Nextly.

Dbrick can run block and he can pass block, he is the most gifted LT to come out since Pace. Dbrick is an offensive lineman with a six pack... and he is over 300 lbs... and he he has the wingspan of a legendary bird.


NOW if you want to say JT is on the same level you are just wrong.

Dbrick came out in a heavy offensive Lineman draf, and was considered to be the number one pick till Reggie Declared, forget the whole mario situation. JT is a good foot above everyone else that is coming out this year, THUS THE HYPE.

JT is working with one good knee, and if he had come out last year, he is a SECOND rounder...

His Knee injury saved him a drastic free fall.
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LionsFan#1Pick


Joined: 24 Nov 2006
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Location: Central Michigan University
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

qball8001 wrote:
JT is working with one good knee, and if he had come out last year, he is a SECOND rounder....


No offense, but you lost a lot of credibility when you said this. Thomas was widely acclaimed as a top 15 pick last season and the second best OT prospect behind Ferguson. Had Thomas stayed healthy and entered the draft, there was NO WAY he would fall out of the first round.

Ferguson is a physical specimen, but his technique was very raw coming into the draft. Not to mention, he wasn't aggressive and often relied on his strength as opposed to getting a strong base by bending his knees and using his hands correctly. That's why he had a rather mediocre rookie season. He's still learning.

Joe Thomas, on the other hand, isn't the physical specimen that Ferguson is (though, he's not a chump either), but he features much better technique. He bends his knees, uses his hands very well, and is much more aggressive. He doesn't have the upside of Ferguson, but is more of a sure thing.
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Crushed_Hope


Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1157
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we Stay at the 2 position then im all for Joe Thomas or Gaines Adams. JT is a great LT, he has great pass blocking skills and last time i checked it was a mjaor need on this line. He is also very athletic i mean you know a linemen is special when they can play the TE and DE position.
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DILinator


Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 2905
Location: Michigan
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was Matt Millen I would have had the class to resign a long time ago!

But if I was running the Lions' draft, I would definitely be trying to trade down to just outside of the Top 5, and hope Thomas, Adams, or some other good player was still there. Or trade down further and stockpile picks. While I don't think Thomas or Adams will be bad NFL players, I just don't like either is worth taking at #2. It is my opinion that you don't take players in the top 5 unless you think they will single-handedly turn around a team, and I don't think either of those linemen will do that. In spite of the Lions past WR failings, if Calvin Johnson is there at #2, I don't bat an eyelash, and take him with confidence. In 2007, Johnson and Roy would combine to form an elite WR duo on par with Harrison/Wayne, and Fitzgerald/Boldin. He's that good, and would provide that much of an impact. Not a popular pick I know, but that's the one I would make.
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TheBadGuy


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Northville,MI
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who says that a 300lb man on a blown up knee is "a sure thing" obviously isn't familiar with the injury. Thomas MAY prove to be solid but it won't be a long career, the clock is already ticking on that knee, Thomas is Robert Gallery on a bum knee, ask Oakland how that worked out.
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Bucky


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oakland fans will tell you that when he played RT he played fairly well, but it is when they moved his position when everything went down hill.
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