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The 1st overall pick
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raven5255


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:48 pm    Post subject: The 1st overall pick Reply with quote

It seems like a no brainer for the Niners to trade the first overall to the Chargers for Rivers if the Chargers are willing to do it doesnt it? If Rivers was in the draft this year he would easily be the best QB and probly the consensus best overall player. The only question is would the chargers do it because i cant think of a reason why the Niners would not want to do that deal. Whats everyones thoughts on this?
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wcblack34


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only advantage Rivers has over Rodgers and Smith is that he has a year of seasoning under his belt. There is no guarantee that he would be rated higher than either of those two. If I'm the 49ers, the only way I take the deal is if the Chargers throw in #12 and their 2nd rounder. This trade will never happen though because the cap hit to the Chargers would be astronomical. Once again, Smith and Rodgers aren't top 5 prospects because they had to put a couple of QB's up there. They are there because they merit the picks.
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raven5255


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think Rivers would easily be rated higher then Rogers and Smith. There was no complaining about Rivers being worth a top 5 pick last year like Rogers and Smith have this year. Everyone keeps saying that Rogers and Smith arent worth the number overall pick or even the 3rd overall pick to the browns, but no one had these comments about Rivers last year. Its just my opinion but if Rivers was in the draft this year i think he would be the consesnus #1 overall and defently be rated higher the Rogers and Smith.
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wcblack34


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes there were questions about Rivers. Everyone had Big Ben rated higher, and Rivers (not unlike Matt Jones) had some meteoric rise to the top. There have always been questions about his size and mechanics. The only reason that the Chargers agreed to the trade w/ NY was because of the other picks that were involved, not because Rivers deserved to go that high. San Diego wouldn't have taken him at #4 either.
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raven5255


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i guess i was wrong, but i though rivers was rated higher then big ben in most cases last year. oh well thanks for the correction.
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cck1up2u


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can i say this? NO WAY IN HELL that the chargers trade Rivers. They have over 10 million already invested and if they took the cap hit it would be another 12 million. Also, the Niners don't want rivers, the top 5 guys on their board have better grades than Rivers-so why?
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mic79e


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It definitely won't happen because of the cap implications for the Chargers, and who would they want to take that high?

But if it were possible, from the 49'ers point of view I think it would appear to be a good deal. They'd get Rivers who was a great prospect, without his signing bonus. That would be a hell of a lot better for them than taking Rogers or Smith and having to pay them a signing bonus for the number 1 pick.

And as for where last years QBs were rated heading into the draft. Most people had Rivers ahead of Roethlisberger. Hardly anyone was criticising the selection of Manning or Rivers ahead of Roethlisberger, because Rivers was the fastest riser in the draft, and many people thought so.
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primetime21335


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wcblack34 wrote:
Yes there were questions about Rivers. Everyone had Big Ben rated higher, and Rivers (not unlike Matt Jones) had some meteoric rise to the top. There have always been questions about his size and mechanics. The only reason that the Chargers agreed to the trade w/ NY was because of the other picks that were involved, not because Rivers deserved to go that high. San Diego wouldn't have taken him at #4 either.



you're incorrect there. SD had phillip rated higher on their board than ben.

thats y NY drafted phillip over ben, b/c they knew thats the only way they could get manning in a trade.

NY had ben rated over philip, but SD didnt, if NY didnt know they could trade for eli they would have drafted ben.

there is no argument there, that is a fact. SD had phillip rated higher than ben, and would ahve taken him 4th not ben.
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wcblack34


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, San Diego would have traded down to get him. They wouldn't have taken him with the 4th pick. That's the reason the Giants gave up so much, because Rivers wasn't worth the #4 pick last year. Yes, San Diego wanted Rivers, but they could have got him at 15. NY knew that Rivers would have to be part of the deal for Eli so they agreed to take him at 4 and trade hi, to San Diego with some other compensation.
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nor*cal09


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mic79e wrote:
It definitely won't happen because of the cap implications for the Chargers, and who would they want to take that high?

But if it were possible, from the 49'ers point of view I think it would appear to be a good deal. They'd get Rivers who was a great prospect, without his signing bonus. That would be a hell of a lot better for them than taking Rogers or Smith and having to pay them a signing bonus for the number 1 pick.
.


Niether team was at all interested in this trade Niners said they have this years top 5 rated higher than last years and feel that Rodgers has a higers value than Rivers. Everybody has something different on their big board Matt Jones is top 10 on some peoples board and he's a 4th rounder on others so whos to say that Niners truly dont have Rodgers rated Higher than Rivers.
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mic79e


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you where the 49'ers, and had the first pick in this years draft, what would you say? Of course they are going to say that they rate this year’s top prospects above last years. To say anything else would be lowering the trade value of their pick. At this stage nothing they say publicly can be taken as their actual opinion.

wcblack34 wrote:
Yes, San Diego wanted Rivers, but they could have got him at 15.


Wrong. Pittsburgh would have drafted Rivers at 11 if he was still there. At the time of the draft most people had Rivers rated as a top ten pick.

I'm not saying that they were right, but at the time of the draft more people, and teams, had Rivers rated ahead of Roethlisberger. If any one was going to slip it was Roethlisberger, and he did. Lucky Pittsburgh.
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JCool333


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mic79e wrote:
If you where the 49'ers, and had the first pick in this years draft, what would you say? Of course they are going to say that they rate this year’s top prospects above last years. To say anything else would be lowering the trade value of their pick. At this stage nothing they say publicly can be taken as their actual opinion.

wcblack34 wrote:
Yes, San Diego wanted Rivers, but they could have got him at 15.


Wrong. Pittsburgh would have drafted Rivers at 11 if he was still there. At the time of the draft most people had Rivers rated as a top ten pick.

I'm not saying that they were right, but at the time of the draft more people, and teams, had Rivers rated ahead of Roethlisberger. If any one was going to slip it was Roethlisberger, and he did. Lucky Pittsburgh.


I love it how people think they know it all. The Steelers all along were in love with R-berger. If you remember, Philip Rivers was expected to go to Miami at 20 before the Chargers couldn't get Eli. The Steelers always said they loved R-berger similar to how the Bucs seem to love Cadillac over Cedric Benson, even though most say Benson is the better back...

I'm not saying that you're definitely wron, but you dont know that youre right.


Also, Rodgers and SMith and this entire draft dont get enough slack. Rodgers has the ability, IMO, to be a Pennington-type QB that can throw further and run faster.

Smith has the talent to eb a star as well. Stop knowcking on em when you guys dont all know. At least watch game tape before you call the dogs out on em, as I have, and actaully I like them more after watching it. They are talented...Just watch a game or two...you can usually download them, and if you cant, findn a highlight tape...
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obob


Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:38 am    Post subject: Not a QB Reply with quote

What if Frye is the QB taken in the 2nd and Edwards goes first? Better yet, could the Niners go for Barron? I saw Tmozak throw for 300 yards with an incredible line in front. Just a theory
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skopi


Joined: 30 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kept track of 30 fairly legitimate mock drafts and put them in an excel spreadsheet. I wish I had been able to update them to right before the draft but instead they range form 3/24 to 4/7. (so things could have changed).

In all 30 drafts, Big Ben was ranked ahead of Rivers. Ben usually went around 3 or 4 while Rivers was slated for 11 (Pitt) with some 13s and 25s sprinkled in.

However, San Diego fell in love with Rivers and so he was drafted higher and this caused Ben to fall. As a Cincinnati fan, I was not happy to see Pittsburgh get him although was pleased to see him get by Cleveland.

sko
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mic79e


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCool333 wrote:
I love it how people think they know it all. The Steelers all along were in love with R-berger. If you remember, Philip Rivers was expected to go to Miami at 20 before the Chargers couldn't get Eli.


Rivers was expected to go to Miami at 20... about 8 weeks before the draft.

And I never said that the Steelers didn't love Roethlisberger, they obviously did. But they also loved Rivers and if he was still there, and Roethlisberger wasn't, then I'm sure they would have taken him.

It seems like many people have forgotten how high Rivers's rating was going into the draft last year. I'm not saying whether the ratings or rankings of the QBs were right or wrong, but just that people need to think about what they knew in April last year not now. There is no shortage of people now who think Roethlisberger was the top rated QB, but the fact is that at the time of the draft there weren't many people that had him there, I didn't.


Last edited by mic79e on Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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