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Vince Young vs. Matt Jones
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ShakeNbake2128


Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 3808
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:58 am    Post subject: Vince Young vs. Matt Jones Reply with quote

If Matt Jones 40 times and workouts can push him to the high round two and talked about in round one then Vince Young next season just the switch to WR without even working out should push him into round one. Young is the far better football player maybe not athlete but definatly football player
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Babelfish


Joined: 22 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I understand, Vince has been working extremely hard on his mechanics, delivery, pocket presence this off-season. Sounds like someone who is determined to stay at the position he is at. I am a UT fan but not much of a Vince fan. Still, I think that he will come out a quarterback, and get drafted as a quarterback. I think he will be drafted higher than most people expect. Too much potential. I certainly would draft him.
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primetime21335


Joined: 27 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'd draft vince at qb too, matt jones sucked at qb, at least vince has some qb talent.

vince still has 2 more years to improve his skills into an nfl passer, two years can make a huge difference, hell even one year can, look at jason campell.

i think vince is a first round TALENT, not a first round player, but he has the TALENT to be a first rounder, as long as he gets his passing numbers into the ordinary range, his speed will carry him into the 1st round w/ a huge upside.

look at vick, he wasnt that great passing wise when he came out, but his cannon arm and speed made him #1 ovr w/o contention. and that was when many said he should have stayed a year in college to improvve his passing accuracy.
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pboyk12


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vince will be a WR when he gets to the pros. He is an awesome athlete and weapon, but the only way to beat him is to make him pass. He is a terrible QB, if he had to rely on only his passing ability he would be nothing more than a student at UT. He and Jones are similar, and he needs to prepare for that likelihood, no way I waste even a 6th rounder on him at QB.
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Babelfish


Joined: 22 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vick is still not a great passer. The only thing that seperates Vick from Young IMO is that his delivery looks prettier. I expect great things from Young in the coming years.
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maduka


Joined: 04 Mar 2005
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Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pboyk12 said "Vince will be a WR when he gets to the pros. He is an awesome athlete and weapon, but the only way to beat him is to make him pass. He is a terrible QB, if he had to rely on only his passing ability he would be nothing more than a student at UT. He and Jones are similar, and he needs to prepare for that likelihood, no way I waste even a 6th rounder on him at QB"

I'd have to disagree with that. He's a very accurate passer. That's funny that people think that he's not. he completed 60% of his passes last year and that's the best all time at UT. So people always say he can't pass, well he can, and he throws a good deep ball.
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RD


Joined: 11 Oct 2004
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Location: Long Beach, CA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless Vince has some huge transformation, he's not playing QB at the next level.

He looks like an awesome WR prospect though. If I had to pick between the two, Id take Young. He's much more fluid on the field than Jones.
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nor*cal09


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RD wrote:
Unless Vince has some huge transformation, he's not playing QB at the next level.

He looks like an awesome WR prospect though. If I had to pick between the two, Id take Young. He's much more fluid on the field than Jones.


I agree Surprised

And this comparison to Vick must stop it's worse than the Sproles to Sanders comparison at least Sproles will actually play the same position, RB at the next level.
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pboyk12


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes stats don't tell the whole story. Young's completion percentage doesn't tell that Young is playing in very, very simplified passing attack at UT. Even at that, he has shown to be very bad when teams have kept him in the pocket. What can help you tell is watching him. I have (unfortunately, cause I'm a Texas Tech alum and he is constantly beating our arse) and if you can figure out how to keep him in the pocket, you can beat Texas. He can throw the ball, but passing is more than throwing. He will not play QB, but he will be a very similar Matt Jones type prospect. This is fact. He is no Mike Vick...and just because he can run and is black doesn't mean he should be compared to him. But Vince is a weapon, and in college, anyway, I would start him on any team. He is that dangerous. Won't work in the pros though.
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vak1975


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vince Young will be a top five pick as a quarterback.

McNabb and Vick didn't have great passing statistics in college. Some guys adapt better to the NFL than to NCAA. The kid's got a great arm, a great head and the most incredible feet I've ever seen.

I'm an alum of U-Michigan. I watched that kid singlehandedly beat one of the best defenses in the NCAA. Anyone who doubts Young (barring injury) is flat out kidding themselves.
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nor*cal09


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just his lack of Quarterback ability but the fact that Texas does not produce great quarterbacks look at Chris Simms had he gone anywhere else he would have been a sure 1st round pick but he chose Texas and got drafted in the 3rd round. Young is not going to make any major strides next year to make himself a top QB prospect.
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RD


Joined: 11 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vak1975 wrote:
Vince Young will be a top five pick as a quarterback.

McNabb and Vick didn't have great passing statistics in college. Some guys adapt better to the NFL than to NCAA. The kid's got a great arm, a great head and the most incredible feet I've ever seen.

I'm an alum of U-Michigan. I watched that kid singlehandedly beat one of the best defenses in the NCAA. Anyone who doubts Young (barring injury) is flat out kidding themselves.


Young beat Texas with his feet, not his arm. He's simply not a passer.

Donovan McNAbb was an all american in college. His senior year, he threw for 2100 yards, 63% of his passes, with 22 TD's and ran for 400 yards and 8 TD's. He didn't put up good numbers?

McNabb was more known for his running, but he made plays with his arm as well. Young is solely a guy who makes plays with his feet. He can't complete a pass downfield, is not very accurate, and the offense is simplified for him in regards to the passing game. He's simply not a QB.

Matt Jones is actually a better QB than Young, and he's moving positions.
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WizardofhOgZ


Joined: 01 Mar 2005
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Location: Grapevine, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="RD"]
vak1975 wrote:
Matt Jones is actually a better QB than Young, and he's moving positions.


Finally, RD - something we can agree on! Wink

Primetime - You are simply mistaken. Jones is not a prototype QB, that is true; neither is Young. It is fair to say that both have had times when they did not play particularly well at that position.

Consider these numbers - from 2004 - for both.

VY had a 59% completion percentage; Jones' was 57%. However, Jones' average gain per completion was 13.72 yards, compared to Young's 12.49, which means that Jones was either throwing more passes downfield, or fewer "dink" passes.

Also, though Texas fans are rightfully impressed with Young's 7.4 yards per carry rushing average, Jones average was 7.85 yds/carry - and that includes the last 2 games when he had a severe groin pull that totally robbed him of his mobility. In those 2 games, he carried 15 times for -3 yards. He had been averaging a remarkable 9.2 yds/carry prior to the injury.

In summary, Jones averaged 7.76 yards every time he touched the ball in 2004; Young averaged 7.02.

So - in just about every measurable number of productivity, Jones was about 10% better than Young - and no one would argue that Jones played on a better or more talented team, or against weaker competition.

If you're so infatuated with VY - given the numbers above - how do you figure that Jones "sucks" as a QB?

Finally, to the point of VY in the pros - it is my opinion that he'll HAVE to make it as a QB, as I don't think he has the physique to make it as a WR. He's a great athlete, but he's not the physical player that Jones is. And - as a QB - I don't think he has the passing skills to be a major factor in the NFL. He'll likely make it in the league as a backup for a few years.
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BigVezzy


Joined: 30 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

primetime21335 wrote:
i'd draft vince at qb too, matt jones sucked at qb, at least vince has some qb talent.


Its funny that MJ has no "QB Talent" but his numbers are...well better than the great Vince Young

Why is Vince young getting all this attention for being a great player. What has he done to get all this heisman and top player billing that Matt Jones didn't do better? Look at his stats


2003 Cmp% 58.7/Pass YDS 1,155/TD 6/INT 7/RAT 130.6
Rush YDS 998/YPA 7.4/TD 11
2004 CMP% 59.5/Pass YDS 1,669/TD 11/INT 10/RAT 130.0
RUSH YDS 887/YPA 6.1/TD 10

Now look at Jones #

Matt Jonesí Career Statistics

2004 Pass YDS 2073/CMP% 57.2/YPA 7.9/TD 15 /INT12/RAT 132.8
Rush YDS 622/YPA 7.5/Rush TD 6
2003 Pass YDS 1917/CMP% 57.4/YPA 8.3/TD 18/INT 7/RAT 147.1
Rush YDS 707/YPA 7.4/Rush TD 8
2002 Pass YDS 1592/CPA% 52.1/YPA 6.8/TD 16/INT 8/RAT 125.0
Rush YDS 614/YPA 4.8/Rush TD 5
2001 -Pass YDS 275/ CMP% 44.4/YPA 10.2/TD 4/INT 2/RAT 156.7
Rush YDS 616/YPA 8.3/TD 5

Matt jones stats as a Junior where better than Crouchs when he won the heisman, the only reason why he was not a household name is because he played for Arkansas not a Top notch school. The same reason why Young gets all the talk about being great...because he plays for Texas

I do think him and Jones have things in common and for most they are the same type player, BUT Jones is a better QB and will be a better WR than VY. If VY played for baylor instead of texas you would never hear about him just like most folks never heard about MJ

Then if you think about it Young plays on a team that has been in the top 5 every year except this one in recuiting. Thats like playing on an all-star team compaired to the level of players that Jones played with. Then also consider that Jones numbers would have been ever better if he didn't have to split time under center his first 3 years. Then look at the confernces BIG XII/ SEC that they played in. In the past 2/3 years there have been a few very good (BIG 12) teams OU/TEX/KState/OSU against (SEC) LSU/TENN/UGA/AURB/FL/OLE Miss (WITH ELI). Not to get in a pissing match about which confenrence is better but during MJ/VY time IMO the SEC has been the stronger of the 2.

Youngs mechanics are the worst ever. The way he flings it side arm totally takes his 6'5" height from him and makes it like a 5"10" QB back there. I would serious doubt unless they get someone in there quick to help him out that he would be a day one selection as a QB. What I mean buy that is if he went into the draft like crouch did sayin he would only play QB in the NFL. The rumors that where going around where that VY is leaving after this year...That is what he told the kid Perilloux that had commited to texas the ended up going to LSU

As I stated before the 2 have allot of things in common, but as of today MJ is the better QB, and he can run faster, jump higher, and has better hands than VY.
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Me


Joined: 18 Mar 2005
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vince Young was one of the most impressive high school QBs I've ever seen. As a passer. From the day he suited up for Texas he was on my list of players to keep an eye on. But consensus #1 QBs out of high school often disappoint, and Vince - so far - is no exception to me. Very entertaining, but where the heck did his passing skills go?

Comparing him to Jones is premature at this point. Anyone who tries, in my opinion, hasn't watched enough of Jones. Now, if Young plays like he did against Michigan (what a game) every game, and starts to win games as a passer, all bets are off.

He's certainly more fluid a runner than Jones, but that's not saying much. Now, I'm not saying Young isn't fluid, btw. He's remarkably fluid. I'm just saying it doesn't take much to be more fluid than Jones, who's running style is about as awkward as they come. My grandmom is a more fluid runner. One of Jones' biggest fans, ex-Jones skeptic Ray Perkins (who I think announced both of Jones' 7 OT victories), said he looks like a cow on ice when juking people out. Vince, though, runs like a gazelle. Elegant. If style is more important than substance, then Vince is light years ahead of Jones.

If you're looking for the guy that's harder to catch and harder to tackle, though, it's actually Jones - even though he looks anything but agile or fast. And if you're looking for the better passing QB, it's Jones - even though his passing game also looks ugly at times, whether you're talking about his decision making or his floating passes. (Looks are deceiving here too, though, as he gets away with stuff far more than normal QBs do.)

Now, where Vince might have an advantage in the pros, assuming he moves to WR, is in route running. Personally, I don't think Jones will ever run precise routes, and those expecting him to show much improvement here might be sorely disappointed. My guess is that most new Matt Jones fans who love him based on his numbers might be in for a pretty big letdown when they first start watching him (unless he starts with a bang). I could be wrong, but I think he'll simply always look pretty darn raw at WR.

It may not matter, though. The first route in that oft downloaded clip from the NFL Combine, where they showed SR bowl practice highlights, showed Jones lumber a few yards downfield, "sell" an outside move, and cut in. Well, it wasn't pretty, and the move was certainly not one you'd write home about. But what happened? He somehow managed to gain about 3 or 4 yards of separation anyway. He was wide open, even with his lumbering stride and ugly moves. He shouldn't have been. But he was. And that's typical of Jones. He jukes defenders out of their shoes all day long with one awkward step. He doesn't look quick, with moves like Barry Sanders or Mike Vick, but that one long step leaves defenders grabbing just as much air.

People will have to learn about his game by watching him over and over. They'll doubt and then doubt some more. They'll scratch their heads wondering how he makes the plays he makes, and maybe they'll eventually figure out that you just can't trust your eyes with this kid. If used properly he'll be a threat to take it to the house on every single snap.
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